RBE DSG2 - It's a Small World After All

Thanks for the update Zed. I didn't realize that the Iros were so far ahead and I agree that cavs won't cut it now for war.

How about a massive pillaging campaign kicked off by a ROP rape of the Iroqouis? Sirian used this technique (without the ROP rape obviously) in some Epic I was reading the other night. We could devestate their economy that way shutting them down. Maybe we could use explorers to do it just for style points.. :)
 
If we get a ROP with Iroqouis and then position all our pillagers and pillage everything on one turn then it doesn't matter if they get slaughtered. If they were all explorers we could pillage and then disband them all and not even take the weariness hit for them getting killed.

One things for sure, I'm coming back to this game at this point when we are all done and trying some of my ideas just to see if they would have worked. :)
 
I don't think you'll get much support for an ROP rape from the other players in this game Architect. Most of the people involved in this game are Epics players and thus ROP rapes are considered exploitative of the AI, even if it's just to pillage. Besides which, building a bunch of pillagers and transports takes away from our ability to build enough troops to defend ourselves so we can survive when the Iros retaliate...
 
Sorry, I got confused when Sirian starved that city and said we weren't playing by Epic rules. I just went back and reread the orginal DSG thread and it says all Epic rules around exploitive tactics apply. I also didn't realize that ROP rape was exploitive. I figured it was Dastardly as it is something the AI can do and does do quite a bit.

So, never mind...
 
ROP betrayal by attacking a single tile (city) I think is considered dastardly but allowed as this is what the AIs will do. Wholesale ROP rape is another matter.

Incidentally, so long as we don't cross over into exploits, I think we should have no qualms about pulling as many dirty tricks and betrayals as we can think of. Everyone has betrayed everyone else at one point or another this game, it's like we're all cardsharps playing cutthroat poker here! Unfortunately, the Iros seem to be the ones holding the full house. Our only hope is to see if we can make it aces over eights...
 
Smegged? Wherefore art thou, Smegged? It has been 2 days since the last save file was posted...
 
Inherited turn: bought Sci method and steel from the US.

Five turns in I conducted an investigation of Niagra Falls (the Iroquois city building Hoover.

Hover is due in 7. Iro's have all 8 luxuries. They have 4 sources of oil (which means they
probably have a monopoly). They have at least one source of all other resources that we can see.

The Iroquois have computers and have started SETI in 1600.

Oh crap. not again. Egypt sneak attacks us in 1610 AD.

Sneak_attack_1610.jpg


Ulundi (Egypt) gets hoover. That is within 2 cities of our core.

I sign a 50 gpt MPP with the Iroquois. This will bring them into the war with Egypt,
and hopefully eventually cause them to collapse into communism. A free ROP with him
brings us up to polite.

Iro_war.jpg


We can purchase Atomic theory for 3k whenever we want.

I try in vain for a leader with our Mpondo longbow. Mpondo is forsaken since the infantry
defender was killed by the first Cav. It was abandonned in 1625, when all but one defender
had been killed. It won't be so easy for Egypt to attack our core though. I pass the game
off in a state of war to Sirian.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe2-1625AD.zip
 
Thinking about it a bit more, I'd like to see America in this war against us. They are much closer to the Iros and would waste valuable Iro time while we caught up from behind. The only downside to this is that we couldn't make tech purchases until one of the sides made peace (there's no way in hell we are spending any more gpt or gold on the Iros).
 
IT 1625AD: Four arty shots from the fort disconnects Egyptian saltpeter. Renegotiate Iro deal: was Wines for Incense and gpt; now Wines for Incense, Spices and gpt. Lux taxes to 0. Buy Refining then Combustion from America, leaving us ~850g. Start lone scientist on flight. Decide to run some shore blockades: the mountain at Texcoco, the rubber, the oil (we have one oil), and some shore near the choke. Rethink this and increase shore blockades to ALL available spare units.

1630AD: Egyptian 'clads bomb some of our shore defenders -- better some units take a few hits than the rails. One Egyptian tank attacks the fort, loses, our defender 1HP left. (BTW, not having artillery in there was :smoke: as the arty shot won this fight for us). Treasury is back above 1k.

1635AD: Iro's start the UN. Another Egyptian tank dies attacking our fort, our defender 2hp left. We have built our first destroyer. Artillery disconnects Egyptian roads leading to the border.

1640AD: Three Egyptian tanks cross the unroaded area into the kill zone. Our arty reduces them to 2-1-1 hps. I use an inf to attack, he loses four of four, 2hp tank promotes to elite. :(

1645AD: Wounded tanks retreat. One new one comes along. We bomb it to shreds, then lose a horseman attacking. Then our regular longbows succeed, scratch another tank.

rbe2-fort1.jpg


1650AD: Our destroyer sinks a yellow 'clad escorting a transport. Our arty bombs some foot troops who are approaching the fort.

1655AD: Four tanks, including the healed elite, move into the kill zone. Our arty minimizes them, then longbows knock off all four tanks with no losses (well, except for the sacrificial lambs stuck out in the open now -- but hey, I REALLY wanted that elite to suffer). Buy Mass Prod from Abe, start some battleships. Cleo will now talk to us and pay us a bit for peace, although all she can pay at the moment is a discount on a tech buy. Since we'd be right back to war next turn, I let her stew a bit. Maybe we can pop a leader in here somewhere. Also, we could buy saltpeter cheap and make some cavs. I seriously consider it, but that would mean the battleships wait. We don't have a lot of shields here.

1660AD: Egyptian government has collapsed. Bwahaha. Egyptian bomber :eek: attacks our longbow, then elite cavs finishes. An Egyptian battleship picked up their unescorted transport (our destroyer had been wounded and I didn't risk it).

NOTE: once we get a fleet, keep it together! Looks like our north shore is where all the heavy action is, so keep the fleet up there (in port, where they can't be ambushed -- WE want first strike, ships really suck on defense), where you can also dip quickly through the canal if need be. Tlat looks like the best port site.

Late Rounds: little action. There's a wounded tank at the fort. Next player's choice to let it go or spend a longbow to try to finish it. I have not been retraining new longbows, so... when we run out, we run out. I was hoping the current supply would last us until we get our own tanks. Try to use the elite ONLY when there are multiple 1hp targets, so that win or lose, the unit is not hung out to dry. Each time it knocks off a battered enemy, is a chance for a leader. Also, there has been no weariness as yet, but it could come soon, so keep an eye out.

Judging by our current income, we will be done buying the four techs before Flight comes in. Be patient! The cash we gather while waiting for it can go to modern techs, tech theft, etc, after Flight arrives. And yes, the Iro's are the biggest threat. Well, that and Egypt getting hold of modern armors, but that's a way off yet and we ought to have mechs by then. I say hold Egypt at bay until the MPP expires, cancel it, make peace (make sure to get full value if possible), and keep on keeping on. Even if we lose, the closer we get, the more impressed the fans will be. :D

War with Egypt (us with tanks prior to them getting mechs) might be worth pressing, once we can field some offense, but the window will be pretty narrow. We can't get bogged down in hamstringing Egypt while Hi runs away with the game, so keep that in mind in weighing the value of further war with Cleo. Also, perhaps in future it would be better to sign Iro's to Alliance instead of MPP. The MPP is cheaper but locks us in for the duration. The MA way we can run T-Hawk "minimal war" and make peace ASAP, which may ultimately cost no more, as we weasel out of the alliance before it runs its course, thus pay less than it may appear.

Finally, keep the shore blockade in place! There have been all kinds of Egyptian transport pairs roaming around, looking for a place to land. We'll be better off if they don't. A stack of 8 or 16 in the back lines could cause serious (avoidable) problems. Note that by RBE rules, you cannot use noncombatants (workers, settlers, artillery) as shore blockade units.


RBE2 - Aztecs - 1675AD


- Sirian
 
Message from a fan:

Sirian, coudn't you use the opportunity of Egyptians being in Anarchy, to steal some techs with increased chance. I remember that anarchy is the perfect timing for espionage operations.

Or is it that you don't have Espionage, CIA ?

Good luck.
 
Hmmm, Sirian, could you explain the reason why you bought the techs instead of waiting 14 turns to get refining? I have a feeling it was to get a Navy, but if you just did it cause we have lots of money, that was definately weed :P.

Oh, and if you're not building longbows, why is there a longbow being trained out of the city in the south? :P

One more thing. If we do go to war with Egypt offensively, make our primary target Ulundi. For it has Hoover Dam, and that would sure look good on our resume :).
 
Egyptians are in communism already, at least were on my turn, so probably won't change governments. It's the Iros whose government we want to collapse. Besides which, both are religious, so anarchy will not last -- we'd have to be very careful on our timing.
 
smegged, you're right. I don't know what I was smoking. :smoke: I saw "Communism 40 turns" but that must have been after I made a deal for refining, because when I open the save, refining in 14 turns is what I see. I can't recall ever researching refining on min sci, so I must have jumped right into the dealmaking without looking. That was a mistake. :o

The team will have to live with that one, though. On the up side, we do now have some battleships to toy around with. :p


- Sirian
 
Yndy: the cost to steal a tech "safely" (aka reliably) is currently higher than the cost of buying in at last-civ. Stealing techs even on Deity just isn't worth it until the modern age.

- Sirian
 
Sirian: Right but like I was saying, when a civ is in Anarchy you should attempt at medium chance 'cause it always worked for me (their 'espionage defense' is at minimum). If Egipt is already in Com, it's no deal but if the Iro's fall into Anarchy...
At deity I think the 4th tech price equals the safe steal option around Flight, Mass Production, and Tanks.
 
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