AmulekBird
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 10
Actually, I'd be better off if we restored the original roster (put me after you, Sirian. I won't actually be able to play until Tuesday). Thanks, and it's nice to be back.
RBGC SG2 - In the Thick of It - TEAM G
- Thread starter Sirian
- Start date
samurai_ben
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 20
I have been without Internet access since Sunday AM. I am posting this message from work, but my free time here is too limited to permit more than a brief post or two. I'll have to step out of the game until further notice.
Samurai Ben
Samurai Ben
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
January 2188AD
There are two planets left we could grab, both in a system north of the Torians: a PQ 12 and a PQ 11. At this point, I am inclined to settle them in hopes of reaching 70 alignment. If we CAN bribe the AI's to Close, let's do it and wrap this thing up. And since we already have a colony ship out there, I am going to settle the PQ10 in the Lasitus system in Arcean space.
As I wake that colony ship, I spot a problem. There is a warship on guard there. That's a major gaffe.
As of v1.12, parking any warship on Guard in a sector adjacent to one with an AI system can trigger them to declare war. They have now been programmed to view ships parked near their systems as a threat, and at the least, it will harm relations. This does not seem to apply if player has influential control over the sector, but I looked and the Drengin control this sector. The Arceans are in third place on influence, so perhaps them being behind us has saved us, but I have seen my best friends declare war on no notice over this kind of situation. I have learned to use Sector Sweep, not Guard, as that does not offend them.
Only ships with zero attack appear not to bother the AI's. You can park scouts, drones, constructors, surveyors, and colony ships anywhere and they won't care, but anything else may upset them if it is too close to their planets. I am not sure about Star Hawks. Never taken the chance to find out. Transports especially draw their ire.
Anyway, it's no longer an issue as I wake the Defender in question and order him to follow the colony ship to Lasitus. I will build colony ships out of each of the two PQ13's in Torian space, and that will take two turns, so I will let the military spending continue pretty much as-is. If I can pull some cheapie research out of it, too, though, I will. I check, and yes, we can research 1D Phasing. I tinker and arrange it.
February
We learn 1D Phasing. Torians and Yor make peace. I send some more of our new constructors to park. I gift the Arceans a tech, Corvettes, but there is no immediate relations hike.
March
We learn Reinforced Hulls. Our colony ship pair are on their way, and I kill the military budget. Looks like I can get to Extravaganza in three turns, so that is the new plan. Research set to 100%, spending adjusted.
April
Torians declare war on Drengin. We learn Negotiation. Our colony ship arrives at Lasitus.
Our alignment is now 69. We are almost there, and we will get two shots at an event in the northwest. With 50 colonists, morale sits at an awful 32. I authorize payment for an entertainment center, and that improves morale to 58. At least our people there can now carve out a tolerable existence for themselves. We have promised them our full support.
I gift three techs to Arcea and this time a shift occurs. Relations now up to Friendly.
May
We settle the PQ 12 at Octavia but draw no event.
June
We learn Extravaganza. I set up a new governor to be used for our new colonies, which are concerned only with morale at this point, so I arrange for PQ and cheap morale improvements for them. I add Stadiums HIGH on the priority for our primary governor and switch our economy to max social spending. I go through the planets and manually set them all to build stadiums, except the ones that can finish their stock markets in the same time period or less.
Our last colony ship arrives at Octavia and settles the PQ11. Wow, check this out.
That's the granddaddy event, the Big Crippler. It is worth 4 to 10 points of alignment shift toward good, depending on how strong of a penalty is rolled up, and we have drawn a high number. Our alignment jumps to 79.
Where was this event in the early game when we could have used it, instead of that endless trickle of 1 point jobbers. Anyway, we are now qualified for victory, so I will try to butter up the majors.
With a mere 10m pop our morale at the new colony is in the tank.
I tried using propaganda, but that only improved morale from 2 to 3. This planet must be abandoned, left to the watery natives.
I saved the game here (but did not exit) in case of disaster, such as power outage.
The good news is, we have plenty of techs to give away. Some of them are significant techs, too, so I am hopeful that we can buy our way to Close. It may be now or never as far as the Drengin are concerned, and if it can be done, this situation with a big tech lead and the rivals locked in wars is the time to try it. One thing to remember, you can only give one gift per turn, per AI, so I will have to choose wisely. Fortunately, I have a number of turns to work with.
I start with the Yor. I gift them Battleship Tech and Aphrodisiac. Oh not good. That did not move them to Close. Not good at all. I will hold off gifting to the stronger AI's, but I will give the Arceans something this turn. Those weaklings are the test case. If I can't move either of them to Close with gifts, I'm not giving squat to the larger majors. We can fall back to cultural push on the Drengin and use that to take them out, while letting trade and alignment do its thing for us with Arcea and the Goody types.
Hmm, the Arceans would not take my gift. Could it be that you can only give a gift to one AI per turn? I don't remember that being the case, but perhaps I remember wrongly. Or... maybe it is too soon since the last gift I gave them in April.
July
I gift five major techs to Arcea. This did not improve relations to Close. I am inclined to believe we will have to do this the long way. I will continue our social push to improve morale, then set us up to begin cultural starbase construction near Drengin space.
August
Relations with Arcea, the Yor and the Drengin have all dropped to Warm. Settle in, lads, this ride ain't over yet. There is much work left for us to do.
September
I start Restaurant of Eternity at Petroni. Start Ultra Spices at Vesta. The Drengin are getting a drubbing at Dester. Thanks to Orbit Bug, their pop has taken a big hit there, and since that is their economic and manufacturing capital, if it should fall or even be crippled, this could be the beginning of the end for the Drengin.
Our approval rating is up to 85, by the way. All hail the supreme improvement, the Stadium.
October
Arrgh. Looks like I goofed. Both planets are building Ultra Spices? I change Petroni to the Restaurant like it should be. Sorry bout that. We lost one turn on it. The Altarians have learned both Business and Marketing, so both of these projects are on the clock, and we should continue social spending until they complete.
November
The Arceans have made peace with the Altarians. Wait. What's that? Their planets have turned blue. Uh... yep, here it comes. Here comes their nineteenth nervous breakdown.
December
I sell a few techs to Alex over 20 turns. I trade Business to Drengin for Hyperspace and a defender.
January
We are but one turn away from securing the two uniques. After that, it will be up to Amulekbird to set our destiny.
There are two planets left we could grab, both in a system north of the Torians: a PQ 12 and a PQ 11. At this point, I am inclined to settle them in hopes of reaching 70 alignment. If we CAN bribe the AI's to Close, let's do it and wrap this thing up. And since we already have a colony ship out there, I am going to settle the PQ10 in the Lasitus system in Arcean space.
As I wake that colony ship, I spot a problem. There is a warship on guard there. That's a major gaffe.
As of v1.12, parking any warship on Guard in a sector adjacent to one with an AI system can trigger them to declare war. They have now been programmed to view ships parked near their systems as a threat, and at the least, it will harm relations. This does not seem to apply if player has influential control over the sector, but I looked and the Drengin control this sector. The Arceans are in third place on influence, so perhaps them being behind us has saved us, but I have seen my best friends declare war on no notice over this kind of situation. I have learned to use Sector Sweep, not Guard, as that does not offend them.Only ships with zero attack appear not to bother the AI's. You can park scouts, drones, constructors, surveyors, and colony ships anywhere and they won't care, but anything else may upset them if it is too close to their planets. I am not sure about Star Hawks. Never taken the chance to find out. Transports especially draw their ire.
Anyway, it's no longer an issue as I wake the Defender in question and order him to follow the colony ship to Lasitus. I will build colony ships out of each of the two PQ13's in Torian space, and that will take two turns, so I will let the military spending continue pretty much as-is. If I can pull some cheapie research out of it, too, though, I will. I check, and yes, we can research 1D Phasing. I tinker and arrange it.
February
We learn 1D Phasing. Torians and Yor make peace. I send some more of our new constructors to park. I gift the Arceans a tech, Corvettes, but there is no immediate relations hike.
March
We learn Reinforced Hulls. Our colony ship pair are on their way, and I kill the military budget. Looks like I can get to Extravaganza in three turns, so that is the new plan. Research set to 100%, spending adjusted.
April
Torians declare war on Drengin. We learn Negotiation. Our colony ship arrives at Lasitus.
Our alignment is now 69. We are almost there, and we will get two shots at an event in the northwest. With 50 colonists, morale sits at an awful 32. I authorize payment for an entertainment center, and that improves morale to 58. At least our people there can now carve out a tolerable existence for themselves. We have promised them our full support.
I gift three techs to Arcea and this time a shift occurs. Relations now up to Friendly.
May
We settle the PQ 12 at Octavia but draw no event.
June
We learn Extravaganza. I set up a new governor to be used for our new colonies, which are concerned only with morale at this point, so I arrange for PQ and cheap morale improvements for them. I add Stadiums HIGH on the priority for our primary governor and switch our economy to max social spending. I go through the planets and manually set them all to build stadiums, except the ones that can finish their stock markets in the same time period or less.
Our last colony ship arrives at Octavia and settles the PQ11. Wow, check this out.
That's the granddaddy event, the Big Crippler. It is worth 4 to 10 points of alignment shift toward good, depending on how strong of a penalty is rolled up, and we have drawn a high number. Our alignment jumps to 79.
Where was this event in the early game when we could have used it, instead of that endless trickle of 1 point jobbers. Anyway, we are now qualified for victory, so I will try to butter up the majors.With a mere 10m pop our morale at the new colony is in the tank.
I tried using propaganda, but that only improved morale from 2 to 3. This planet must be abandoned, left to the watery natives.
I saved the game here (but did not exit) in case of disaster, such as power outage.
The good news is, we have plenty of techs to give away. Some of them are significant techs, too, so I am hopeful that we can buy our way to Close. It may be now or never as far as the Drengin are concerned, and if it can be done, this situation with a big tech lead and the rivals locked in wars is the time to try it. One thing to remember, you can only give one gift per turn, per AI, so I will have to choose wisely. Fortunately, I have a number of turns to work with.
I start with the Yor. I gift them Battleship Tech and Aphrodisiac. Oh not good. That did not move them to Close. Not good at all. I will hold off gifting to the stronger AI's, but I will give the Arceans something this turn. Those weaklings are the test case. If I can't move either of them to Close with gifts, I'm not giving squat to the larger majors. We can fall back to cultural push on the Drengin and use that to take them out, while letting trade and alignment do its thing for us with Arcea and the Goody types.
Hmm, the Arceans would not take my gift. Could it be that you can only give a gift to one AI per turn? I don't remember that being the case, but perhaps I remember wrongly. Or... maybe it is too soon since the last gift I gave them in April.
July
I gift five major techs to Arcea. This did not improve relations to Close. I am inclined to believe we will have to do this the long way. I will continue our social push to improve morale, then set us up to begin cultural starbase construction near Drengin space.
August
Relations with Arcea, the Yor and the Drengin have all dropped to Warm. Settle in, lads, this ride ain't over yet. There is much work left for us to do.
September
I start Restaurant of Eternity at Petroni. Start Ultra Spices at Vesta. The Drengin are getting a drubbing at Dester. Thanks to Orbit Bug, their pop has taken a big hit there, and since that is their economic and manufacturing capital, if it should fall or even be crippled, this could be the beginning of the end for the Drengin.
Our approval rating is up to 85, by the way. All hail the supreme improvement, the Stadium.
October
Arrgh. Looks like I goofed. Both planets are building Ultra Spices? I change Petroni to the Restaurant like it should be. Sorry bout that. We lost one turn on it. The Altarians have learned both Business and Marketing, so both of these projects are on the clock, and we should continue social spending until they complete.
November
The Arceans have made peace with the Altarians. Wait. What's that? Their planets have turned blue. Uh... yep, here it comes. Here comes their nineteenth nervous breakdown.
December
I sell a few techs to Alex over 20 turns. I trade Business to Drengin for Hyperspace and a defender.
January
We are but one turn away from securing the two uniques. After that, it will be up to Amulekbird to set our destiny.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
The Arceans are gone and the Yor are so weak they are sure to surrender to somebody sooner or later, just as Arcea did. More likely sooner, too, since the Altarians are going after them. That leaves the Drengin for us to worry about. And if we can maintain peaceful relations, we can hit them with culture. Or... we can lean military, and once we are Close with our friends, ally with them and join the war. The latter would be easier and probably faster, but the former would better fit our motif for this game, so what would you guys prefer to pursue? Any comments?
ROSTER:
Sirian
AmulekBird <<< UP NOW
Samurai Ben << Inactive
Physicist <<< On Deck
Team G - 2189AD
- Sirian
AmulekBird
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 10
Got it. This ought to be interesting.
AmulekBird
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 10
I hope everyone else finds what I'm about to post as humorous as I did.
Jan 2189: I ponder Sirian's two comments (paraphrased)
1. We should end this soon, if possible.
2. Looks like we're in this for the long haul.
I like number 1 better than number 2 so my first act as president is to check the rules for this succession game. I see nothing preventing my plan morally or regulationally so I reduce spending to zero and set taxes to 60% to have a max income of 1140bc per month.
I gift the Yor 100bc for 100 months...they are now Close!
I gift the Altarians 200bc for 100 months...they are now Close!
I gift the Torians 200bc for 100 months...they are now Close!
I gift the Drengins 100bc for 100 months...they are now Friendly.
Feb 2189: I gift the unwilling Drengins 200bc for 100 months. No change.
Mar 2189: I gift the stubborn and frustrating Drengins 200bc for 100 months. Still no change.
Apr 2189: I gift the ridiculously adamant Drengins 100bc for 100 months. They are now, would you believe it, Close!!
I check our income to make sure I haven't doomed us to an existence of poverty. Our income is still 466bc per month.
Now for the fun part. I ally with all four races. Look at the beauty of this:
One click on the TURN button brings a beautiful animation including the following:
Our mighty game earns a whopping 5287 Mpts. Anyone interested in submitting it??
Here is the EndGameSave for anyone interested in looking at our galactic alliance. Final Morality is 79. Allied with all races left standing.
EndGameSave
Team G signing off.
Jan 2189: I ponder Sirian's two comments (paraphrased)
1. We should end this soon, if possible.
2. Looks like we're in this for the long haul.
I like number 1 better than number 2 so my first act as president is to check the rules for this succession game. I see nothing preventing my plan morally or regulationally so I reduce spending to zero and set taxes to 60% to have a max income of 1140bc per month.
I gift the Yor 100bc for 100 months...they are now Close!
I gift the Altarians 200bc for 100 months...they are now Close!
I gift the Torians 200bc for 100 months...they are now Close!
I gift the Drengins 100bc for 100 months...they are now Friendly.
Feb 2189: I gift the unwilling Drengins 200bc for 100 months. No change.
Mar 2189: I gift the stubborn and frustrating Drengins 200bc for 100 months. Still no change.
Apr 2189: I gift the ridiculously adamant Drengins 100bc for 100 months. They are now, would you believe it, Close!!
I check our income to make sure I haven't doomed us to an existence of poverty. Our income is still 466bc per month.
Now for the fun part. I ally with all four races. Look at the beauty of this:
One click on the TURN button brings a beautiful animation including the following:
Our mighty game earns a whopping 5287 Mpts. Anyone interested in submitting it??
Here is the EndGameSave for anyone interested in looking at our galactic alliance. Final Morality is 79. Allied with all races left standing.
EndGameSave
Team G signing off.
Isit
Chieftain
An interesting game. I learned quite a bit from the writeups. You guys caught me by surprise with the ending. 
I would have thought this game would last longer then it did.
I would have thought this game would last longer then it did.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Nice one, AmulekBird!
I have often pondered the ability to get major changes in relations with the pay over 100 turns tactic, especially in the endgame. I think all the alliances I have bought to end the game were with straight cash, so I haven't been in this exact situation. Still, since you still had the ability to produce (positive income), I do not think your method is out of line. In fact, your ability to grab close relations with monkey boy NOW was the only way to wrap the game up quickly.
I have also been in the position of doling out 1000bc/month overall to keep a runaway ai NEUTRAL so that I could continue to spam culture. I had to renew all of those deals once or twice, even...
Your timing was perfect, since I doubt that any amount of money to monkey boy would have been enough in a year or two. Way to seize the opportunity. Four-way alliance win is a big accomplishment for someone with a non-neutral alignment.
EDIT: The discussion about the pay over time tactic is not meant to demean your choice, AmulekBird. I think you choice was within the intent of the game here. It's just that RB has debated the use of per turn payments in Civ3 ad nauseam, and how that relates to game (espectially end-game) strategies is of interest to us in thinking of crafting our ruleset for future games and tournaments. I t is not clear to me whether or not the tactic is balanced overall within the game. Something to think about on as we look to the future
I have often pondered the ability to get major changes in relations with the pay over 100 turns tactic, especially in the endgame. I think all the alliances I have bought to end the game were with straight cash, so I haven't been in this exact situation. Still, since you still had the ability to produce (positive income), I do not think your method is out of line. In fact, your ability to grab close relations with monkey boy NOW was the only way to wrap the game up quickly.
I have also been in the position of doling out 1000bc/month overall to keep a runaway ai NEUTRAL so that I could continue to spam culture. I had to renew all of those deals once or twice, even...
Your timing was perfect, since I doubt that any amount of money to monkey boy would have been enough in a year or two. Way to seize the opportunity. Four-way alliance win is a big accomplishment for someone with a non-neutral alignment.
EDIT: The discussion about the pay over time tactic is not meant to demean your choice, AmulekBird. I think you choice was within the intent of the game here. It's just that RB has debated the use of per turn payments in Civ3 ad nauseam, and how that relates to game (espectially end-game) strategies is of interest to us in thinking of crafting our ruleset for future games and tournaments. I t is not clear to me whether or not the tactic is balanced overall within the game. Something to think about on as we look to the future
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
That was a big gamble, committing that much in an all-or-nothing gambit, but it paid off, and I won't argue with success. Very well done. 
Now we know it CAN be done, if you've got enough assets. A whole lot harder to pull off than buttering up Civ3 AI's for that game's brand of diplomatic victory, let me tell you!
Back just in time to apply the coup de grace, President AmulekBird cements the galactic alliance.
Thanks to all who played on Team G, as well as the other teams. Now time for me to check out the other results.
- Sirian
Now we know it CAN be done, if you've got enough assets. A whole lot harder to pull off than buttering up Civ3 AI's for that game's brand of diplomatic victory, let me tell you! Back just in time to apply the coup de grace, President AmulekBird cements the galactic alliance.
Thanks to all who played on Team G, as well as the other teams. Now time for me to check out the other results.
- Sirian
Heh, good show everyone and an entertaining read. That was certainly a LOT of cash going out at the end of the game! 
My approach would have been to go full-bore on research and spam tech at them, but who knows if that would have met with as much success. Way to go!
My approach would have been to go full-bore on research and spam tech at them, but who knows if that would have met with as much success. Way to go!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
aviator99_uk
Warlord
Entertaining read.
With a unforseen climax to the reader
Well done.
Aviator
With a unforseen climax to the reader
Well done.
Aviator
AmulekBird
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 10
I'm glad the surprise ending was enjoyable for everyone else. I did take a huge gamble, but I thought it would make the game very exciting if it worked. I'm very glad it did. BTW, this was only the second time I've ever pursued an alliance victory so the ending surprised me as much as anyone else.
samurai_ben
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 20
After nearly 4 days without real Internet access, I just read through this thread. Nice job, all. If we could have gotten the Arceans to Warm earlier, I was seriously considering planetary gifts and not cash; but it worked out well in the end.
Celebratory beverages to all!
Celebratory beverages to all!
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