RBP9 - Old School Deity

[JMB]

Thanks for not purchasing the WM Reagan. If you had, I wouldn't have been able to pull this turn off...

1000 BC - Masonry from Cleo for 78 gold. Math from the Monty for 103 gold and 3 gpt. 4 gpt and 6 gold to Japan for Mysticism. Grr... Everyone already has all these techs. So far however, nobody has currency.

Well, my computer crashed, and I lost the entire report. Suffice it to say, I bought several techs and then decided to wait a couple of turns in the hopes that someone would research currency and I could broker it. About 2 turns later, everyone except Cleo knows about currency. So I purchase it and then mortgage our entire economy (MM tiles, disbanding 5 regular warriors, reducing our lux rate to 0%) and I was finally able to get HBR, Polytheism, and Construction from Cleo for Currency and 25 gpt. Our free tech was Feudalism, and no one else had it [dance]. So, I traded it to Biz for Monotheism, 243 gold, and 9 gpt. Then I traded Feudalism to Toku for 97 gold and his WM. And finally, I traded Monotheism to Cleo for Monarchy. We are at tech parity with Biz and Toku, up Feudalism on Cleo, up Feudalism and Monotheism on the Aztecs, and Monarchy, Feudalism, and Monotheism on Shaka. Although I doubt it'll be of much use, I begin min research on Republic.

Not much happened over the next few turns other than my computer crashing around 850 BC . I established embassies with the Zulu, the Germans, and the Japanese. I didn't do so for the Egyptians or the Aztecs because they would have cost over 100 gold each.

850 BC - Our golden age ends. The Germans begin Sun Tzu's.

825 BC - I decide to try a suicide galley; unfortunately, there is no land in sight... IBT, we lose our galley.

800 BC - After trading around our WM (net > 20 gold), it does not appear that we'll be contacting the other civs any time soon...

775 BC - Not much. The Aztecs complete the Hanging Gardens. The Egyptians begin Sun Tzu's. The Japanese cascade to Sun Tzu's.

750 BC - Not much. Egypt, Germany, and the Japanese now have the Republic. Unfortunately, there is no way that we can afford it. So, I decide to turn off research and hope we can purchase it as soon as its price deflates a little (this can be switched back if desired... We currently have 8 turns of min research on the Republic).

Our iron road is almost complete, but we might want to delay it a little as we'll no longer be able to produce hoplites. However, we could also sacrifice a worker and establish a colony on the iron (it will be awhile before our borders in that town (ie, first we'd have to build a temple...) expand and bring the iron within our cultural borders...)) and then upgrade a bunch of our regular warriors to MDI and then take on Shaka again. Of course, we won't be able to do this until near the end of Speaker's turn... (and we have to start saving up a lot more money...)

Also, we can't sell our spices to anyone else on the other continent because we don't have a sea lane.

EDIT: Eternal Man, I agree, the tech pace does seem a little slow, but I don't mind...

Here is the file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RBP9OS750BC.zip

Sullla
Reagan
JMB
Speaker <<< UP NOW
Chieftess <<< on deck

JMB

 

[Sullla]

Impressive turn! We are now equal in tech or further than the other civs we know! Only another 10 turns of gpt payments too, at which point in time our income will greatly increase. We'll have a harbor up to trade in about 5 turns, at which point in time we can see about importing a lux to decrease the 20% luxuries we have to run right now. At the moment the tech pace is definitely slow; I don't know what the deal is with that, maybe it's because the AI civs don't trade the same way as they did in 1.21f (?) It could also be due to the different way in which tech devalues; the techs certainly cost less than they normally do. Ah well, we're not going to complain. We're still last in land area and stuck under a bunch of jungle, so any extra time we can get will be of great benefit. Here's the world map:

 

[Reagan]

Nice turn, JMB!

All hail 1.21's random free tech selections and the power of the Feudalism slingshot! :worshp: Now we can put money towards unit upgrades, although they'll be that much more expensive.

 

[Chieftess]

Nice set of trades! Sounds like the CivG SG (emperor) trades we had. I was cracking the whip with trade suggestions on that one.

EDIT: I thought the tech pace would be faster too. Especially after reading the link in the first page. I also noticed that the Zulus settled that island to our east. That should make for a nice... exile for them soon.

 

[JMB]

Sullla,

We can't trade with anyone because our galley's can't make it over to the other continent... I think we'll need to wait until Navigation before we can trade with anyone other than Shaka (and we have nothing to trade him that he doesn't already have...)

About tech devaluation... I don't think it is nearly as bad as in 1.21. Even at last civ prices, things like HBR, polytheism, etc. seemed much more expensive than before. I also think that the AI doesn't have the same screw the human factor it had way back then, so other AIs are also lagging behind...

JMB

 

[falsfire]

<delurk>

FWIW: The Greeks cannot & do not build pikemen, since the stats are the same as hoplites. It will never even give you pikes to build. You can continue building Hoplites until you learn Gunpowder, at which point they upgrade to Musketmen

</relurk>

 

[JMB]

Thanks for the update falsfire!

JMB

 

[Reagan]

I forgot to metion that, falsfire. You're exactly right.

If the AI got boats to our continent, then we have to be able to reach theirs (unless one of 'em built the Lighthouse, which I don't believe has happened). The AI doesn't use suicide galleys, so we shouldn't have to either (at least not to reach the other continent).

 

[Chieftess]

The Zulus did build a city in the east, so there could very well be more islands. I've seen the AI move a ship 1 tile into the sea then back. They could have spotted the Zulu ship that way.

 

[Reagan]

That's certainly a rational explanation, but the founding of the Zulu city was not what led to contact in this game. Contact with the other continent occurred prior to the Zulu galley reaching what will soon be our island.

 

[Chieftess]

I just looked at the save, and it looks like there's a 3 tile gap between Bapedi and the continent. (just north of the whale). We could try a suicide galley run east of Calixtlahuaca (although, the AI's bound to contact more civs by then... astronomy and/or navigation)

 

[Rik Meleet]

A small request from a very interested spectator. I live in Europe and PTW 1.21f is impossible to install here. Therefore I cannot load any saved games you post.
Could you please, for my sake, post some complete maps ? That way I can follow your game.

And: Good luck to you all playing.

 

[JMB]

The easiest way (I know of; if you guys know of a better way, I'd love to hear about it...) checking to see if we can trade something is to look at the F2 screen. It is there that it indicates whether we can trade with other people or not. When I placed the cursor over the different AIs on the other continent, it indicates that we'd need a sea trade route to trade with them.

WRT the great lighthouse, the French have it.

Chieftess: I noticed the same spot and thought about another suicide galley, but figured that the other AIs would already have contact by that time (since it would take us probably > 20 turns to get there...)

Rik Meleet: Sorry about not posting our WM, but Sulla did. You can see what the other civilizations are like (and their approximate physical location relative to us) in the small map in the lower left hand corner.

JMB

 

[Speaker]

I'm going to have to ask to be skipped this round. RL isn't letting me get a break, but I'll hopefully be finished with my finals by early next week.

 

[Chieftess]

Ok, then this is an I've got it!

EDIT: Actually, there's some thunderstorms headed towards my area, so I'll wait until tonight.


750BC - Turn 0

Having created a tech trade table, I see that no one in our group has Lit. But, since it's a cost of 10, it's somewhat worthless, especially now because of TGL being built. Even in 8 turns, it's absolutely futile (-43gpt). Even 10% still gives us some deficit.

Not much to do this round that hasn't already been done.

730BC - Turn 1

IT: Not much.

Sparta: Harbor > Temple
Delphi: Worker > Hoplite

On the tech front, we still can't get republic, and there's not much our techs will go for either. Athens will riot next turn. Putting the lux slider up, we lose 9gpt. I decide to give Athens the clown again and have it build a temple next turn. The other civs won't even accept a gpt deal for our techs.

710BC: Turn 2

Zulus heading north.

Athens: Hoplite > Temple

The Zulus have gotten Fuedalism. Aztecs would give 42g and a WM for mono or fued. Since mono is just about traded (and fued), I'll go with mono just to give us the extra gold. It's bound to be traded if we don't.

690BC: Turn 3

IT:
Germany declares war on the egyptians!
I also see an Impi/Settler pair head out of Intombe.
Zulus and Aztecs are building Sun Tzu

Argos: Harbor > Temple

I'm also sending a warrior to sit on the same mountain just to scout the Zulus. We can get 5gpt from the Germans for an allience against the Egyptians, but not the Republic. Even if we had an allience, the Egyptians could send ships down in 10 turns, and going to war could even bring the Zulus in it.

670BC: Turn 4

IT: It appears the Zulus are moving the settler/impi pair (even though they used 3 units) onto a boat to settle somewhere.

Pharsalos: Harbor > Hoplite

Zulus get Literature. Aztecs get fued. Egypt and Japan also have both Lit and Rep. We can't even use libraries now since we're not researching.

650BC: Turn 5

Herakleia: Worker > Worker

I decide to build a colony on the iron, and upgrade our first MI for 60g. Moving our warrior onto a hill reveals that the Zulus are connecting their iron! There are 4 impis, 2 horsemen and 1 archer in the area. With the jungle by Thermo cleared, it can now grow. It's also a bonus grassland tile!

The Germans will now give us 9gpt and 8g for an allience against the Egyptians, but I still don't think it's worth the risk. We only have 1 MI. On the tech front, so can't get Republic.

630BC: Turn 6

IT: Zulus are scouting our borders with galleys.

Upgraded a second warrior. I'm not going to do anymore until we get more gold. Japan and Germany now have Chivalry. No one will trade anything to us yet. Moved a warrior NW of the iron colony just incase there's a settler on that galley to the W of it.

610BC: Turn 7

IT: We see an Egyptian ship.

Athens: Temple > MI
Pharsalos: Hoplite > Market

On the diplo front, still nothing. But, our gpt deals will end soon, so, that will relieve our cash flow.

590BC: Turn 8

I rush the temple in Thermo. I just don't want to wait any longer for that one.

570BC: Turn 9

Sparta: Temple > MI (micromanaged for 10spt)
Thermo: Temple > Hoplite
Delphi: Hoplite > Hoplite
Mycenae: MI > Worker

Still nothing on the tech front. The warrior is also in place on the mountain by Isanda. just to scout the area. We also have a few MI in place (3 total).

550BC: Turn 10

IT: Shaka asks us to move our boat (and yet, he has his in ours.).

It looks our our trade deals are starting to end, as we're in the green again. The Zulus now have their iron connected! But, it doesn't appear that they have any cities connected. Athens will also riot again next turn.

We have our iron connected and 3 MIs. There's more MIs in production. Also, when our gpt deals end, we can upgrade the rest of the warriors.

550BC

 

[Sullla]

Not a bad turn Chieftess, but you should post a new response when you play your turns instead of simply editing you last post. I don't think anyone else on the team knew that you had actually played your turns yet; I was just checking in here to look at an old save and was shocked to see that the next turn had been finished.

I'm up next, so no need to post a roster or anything. I'll try to set Reagan up for an attack on the next turn; if the Zulus have nothing better than spears (impis) in their cities when we hit them with MDI, it's going to be pretty lonely on our continent soon.

 

[Reagan]

I'm up next, so no need to post a roster or anything. I'll try to set Reagan up for an attack on the next turn; if the Zulus have nothing better than spears (impis) in their cities when we hit them with MDI, it's going to be pretty lonely on our continent soon.

Even if we kick Shaka's tail off our continent, we won't be lonely as long as we have each other. Now let's all have a group hug.

 

[Speaker]

:love2:

 

[Chieftess]

Well, where's the next set of turns?

 

[Sullla]

(0) 550BC Going through our cities... I notice that we do indeed have three MDI, but what we neglected to mention was that they are all regulars, not vets. That means they are far more likely to die in combat; not good. Athens is at 12 shields/turn, not bad but let's see if we can get that to 14 shields/turn to get MDI in three turns instead of four. Sparta's working an unmined hill tile! Ack! Will definitely need to fix that right away. If Pharsolus is going to produce units, it needs a barracks first (switch). Now I know that Chieftess said libraries don't do us any good because we aren't researching, but this is not so! We're scientific, which means that libraries are half cost for us, and cheaper than temples if we just need to stick some culture into a city. I can get Literature for free to by sending Monotheism @last-civ price to Shaka. Sounds like a deal! I also send Shaka's WM that I picked up around for another dozen gold. Knossus swapped to library, due in 5 turns instead of 15 for temple. Argos swapped to library as well and whipped; instead of being stuck at size 2, now it will be able to pull the fish tile nearby and start really growing into a first-rate fishing town. That does it for the first turn; we'll be getting our gpt back in two more turns and then can start doing some bargaining.

(1) 530BC Gaah, Athens riots on me. I even saw Chieftess' note on that and missed correcting it (generally though, it's not a good idea to pass off a game to someone with rioting imminent on the next turn ) Move our hoplites which are out in the open for no particular reason into Knossus to cut down the flip risk. AHA! A brokering opportunity opened up. Egypt and Japan have Theology, but Bismarck does not. I just pray that it holds until next turn so we can swing the deal with our renewed gpt...

(2) 510BC Hmm, it appears even all our gpt is not enough to buy in @3rd civ price. We need to get into a Republic very badly, and soon. That should be our next tech purchase at all costs.

(3) 490BC Athens and Sparta both finish veteran MDI, start on more.

(5) 450BC Not too much going on right now. We're preparing an army to attack, but it's slow going. Fortunately the tech pace remains on par with an average Deity game; I don't know what went wrong, but frankly we'd have no chance at all if the pace was flyng along as I expected to see.

(7) 410BC Athens and Sparta pump out another MDI each. Getting ready to attack soon... Also getting close to a deal for Theology.

(8) 390BC We can finally swing a deal. Get Theology from Egypt @3rd civ price for 226g + 37gpt. Theology + 9g to Germany for The Republic [dance]. We're now broke and we definitely don't want to revolt at the moment since we can't cover the costs of an anarchy period, but we picked up two very important techs for the price of one. Good deal if I do say so!

(9) 370BC Change Sparta from MDI to marketplace to take advantage of a forest chopping due in 2 turns.

(10) 350BC Germany declares war on the Aztecs. The French (somewhere) complete Sun Tzu's. Japan cascades to and builds Sistine.

I end my turn with several units still having movement points left. I believe we should go after the Zulus NOW, before they get their iron hooked up. We have 8 MDI ready to attack, and while that's not going to be enough to finish off their civ, it is enough for us to do some damage. Just capturing Isandhlwana would be enough to cripple their civ for good; taking the Zulu iron source would render them helpless for us to pick off later. The Zulus have a ton of units but they are all very weak, nothing but impis and horsemen and archers. We can grab Isand and maybe one other city in a short war, demand something for peace, then hit the Zulus again in another 20 turns. Rinse and repeat. We'll also want to revolt to Republic once our gpt payments wear off in 20 turns and we can afford the transition period. I've indicated on my map how I think we should hit Shaka; we are only ONE tech behind the leader Egypt and otherwise caught tied or ahead of everyone else. Starting in this lousy position, that's truly an amazing accomplishment. You guys are all really good!



Pretty simplistic really, just gather up three hoplites and our MDI stack and move them on the hill after delaring war. The local Zulu horsemen/archers will suicide themselves on the hoplites and then we walk into Isand on the third turn of the attack. Nice and easy as long as nothing goes wrong. All these units still have movement points left on this turn; I would have attacked myself but I wanted to allow a veto from the group if desired.

RBP9 350BC