Real or imagined threats

The archetypal Trump-booster is a middle aged or elderly white suburbanite whose online presence ranges from "non-existent" to "Facebook and local news". In what circumstances are they likely to encounter an "SJW" in the wild?

Trump voters are upset about "SJWism" because their preferred media outlets know that they are already obsessed with "political correctness gone mad", and goes out of its way to discover, exaggerate or simply invent stories of outraged liberals to grab and maintain their attention. It's not a backlash, it's a scam.
There’s hella sjws in the wild but then again I’m always around me and I’ll be correcting peoples misuse of genders with the less woke expats and pushing along pro LGBT acceptance with the local kids (who are already pretty okay, some are cool some aren’t, it’s like the 90s here it’s unfair jokes but underlying acceptance). You all won’t see it here on CFC often anymore because I’ve passed that torch on this site, we’re mostly on the same page (although most of you caught me in that deleted thread a few weeks back) and/but I’d rather dog you for being Moderator Action: Redacted. --LM anyway :D

I don’t think I’ve found a place in the USA devoid SJWs, every family has at least one. My family is chill we spread it out among the extended family across two generations and take turns in our early 20s being fiery. Bad example cuz geography tho. Not many if any Trump voters.

But yeah even in San Antonio it was prevalent. Not like the Bay Area, but half of my friends were or were one step away. The only party I threw was a gay and trans safe space theme with killer music. And it was all the “no micro aggressions we will kick you out no staring” etc rules that make the Right squeamish.

Hey look guys all I wrote a hybrid Zardnaar/Valka post :old: ;) :beer:

Oh no wait there was a point, which is that I disagree they are isolated from social justicists.
 
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You're kinda tripping if you don't think the 60+ million Americans who voted for Trump are basically Nazis. Haven't they demonstrated they have no limits yet? If Trump started shipping Democrats off to the gas chamber they'd stand up and cheer.
 
You're kinda tripping if you don't think the 60+ million Americans who voted for Trump are basically Nazis. Haven't they demonstrated they have no limits yet? If Trump started shipping Democrats off to the gas chamber they'd stand up and cheer.
I wouldn't say they're all Nazis, but rather they're okay with fascism. Does that make them fascists/Nazis?
 
I mean, we're past political conservatism (cultural or economic), here. If people agree with and / or sympathise with fascist behaviour, then yeah, there's no functional difference nomatter what they call themselves. A number of notable pundits have backed off from Trump, and I'd imagine ordinary voters likewise. We're almost four years on - people who are justifying what's going on are doing so knowing of the ongoing cost (or not caring to know about it, which at this point is downright willful).

There's an argument to be made about how certain demographics are isolated and locked-in due to proliferation of (effectively) Republican-owned media (like Fox News), but certainly anybody with regular access to social media isn't a part of those (I'm talking about the folks that are exclusively, say, on Facebook at most, and bombarded with the bought ads and paid-for links that permeate that platform).
 
Fascism is just conservatism when the established order is, or seems to be, in crisis.
 
I'd argue that there needs to be a shifting of the Overton window in popular culture first, but that's already happened in the US, and is happening / already-just-about-happened in the UK.
 
You're kinda tripping if you don't think the 60+ million Americans who voted for Trump are basically Nazis. Haven't they demonstrated they have no limits yet? If Trump started shipping Democrats off to the gas chamber they'd stand up and cheer.
Given some of your pervious posts, you seem to share quite a bit with Trump....
 
If by "reminded of it everyday" you mean "stuffed on cattle cars and shipped to prison camps" we are in agreement
Oh, sorry, lex, i misrepresented your statement. I guess prison camps would be enough, or do you also approve of the gas?
 
Oh, sorry, lex, i misrepresented your statement. I guess prison camps would be enough, or do you also approve of the gas?

No, just locking enough of them up so they can't kill us all is sufficient.
 
No, just locking enough of them up so they can't kill us all is sufficient.
Just make sure you lock up the right ones. While I admit the odds are in your favor, it's still easy to miss
 
I strongly disagree with how a lot of forum members throw around the term fascist/fascism and also nazi/nazism and I feel kinda compelled, both as a Kraut and as a historian, to clear that up.

You're kinda tripping if you don't think the 60+ million Americans who voted for Trump are basically Nazis. Haven't they demonstrated they have no limits yet? If Trump started shipping Democrats off to the gas chamber they'd stand up and cheer.

Just for the historic background: Nazi is primarily a slur coined after WW2. Actual nazis back then did not call themselves nazis, they called themselves national socialists. So, a nazi is by definition a national socialist and an anti-semite, because that is truly at the heart of the ideology. Nazism cannot exist without its specific brand of anti-semitism. Nazism could be viewed as a subset of fascism, though that is disputed. I severely doubt that most of Trump's supporter are anti-semites in any meaningful way, if anything they support Israel and want to hellfire bomb the living **** out of the middle east (or any brown people in general). They're racist. Most definitely authoritarian. But rarely fascist. And almost never nazis. Proper nazis are a real thing, and it really doesn't help to mislabel people.

Nowadays people use fascist almost exclusively as a synonym for "authoritarian", or for someone who sucks up to authoritarinism, a "bootlicker". That is not a proper use for that word. Fascism has certain tenets. Most important of all, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism (!), the necessity for an out-group, "perpetual" war, certain aesthetics, protectionism and so forth. Most Trump voters probably don't know what corporatism is, nor do they care about brutalism.

Mussolini said fascism was "the merging of state and corporate power". He coined fascism, more or less. I would go as far and say that a majority of Trump voters are strictly against the idea of government interfering with business, they are anti-corporatist and therefore also anti-fascist in a way. Some of Trumps policies were definitely fascist, like his protectionist policies for example.

Roger Scruton on fascism and corporatism:

The economy was divided into associations (called ‘syndicates’) of workers, employers and the professions; only one syndicate was allowed in each branch of industry, and all officials were either fascist politicians or else loyal to the fascist cause. According to law the syndicates were autonomous, but in fact they were run by the state. The ‘corporations’ united the syndicates in a given industry, but made no pretence at autonomy from the state.

Mussolini himself, though obviously ghostwritten by Gentile:

Fascism desires the State to be strong and organic, based on broad foundations of popular support. The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporative, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organized in their respective associations, circulate within the State.

Corporatism (corporatismo as it was called in Italy) is way, way different from current free-market neoliberal economies. In Corporatism it is the state that rules business, in reality it is the other way around.

Fascism is just conservatism when the established order is, or seems to be, in crisis.

This is somewhat true. Fascism itself, while it is an authoritarian system, draconic, and almost always dictatorial, is in fact a very volatile system of governance. So volatile in fact that it completely relies on both an out-group to blame for everything and a neighboring enemy to rally against. These are fundamental to fascism, without these counterpoints it could not exist.

Fascism is in many ways revolutionary and active, so I completely disagree that it is like conservatism. Fascism (or national socialism if you want to go there) is, after all, the counterpart to anarcho communism, revolutionary socialism, maoist communism and so forth. But yes, they do both share the idea of the established order being in crisis.
 
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Nowadays people use fascist almost exclusively as a synonym for "authoritarian", or for someone who sucks up to authoritarinism, a "bootlicker". That is not a proper use for that word. Fascism has certain tenets. Most important of all, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism (!), the necessity for an out-group, "perpetual" war, certain aesthetics, protectionism and so forth. Most Trump voters probably don't know what corporatism is, nor do they care about brutalism.
Are you sure you're really aware of American politics? :P

Republicans are all of these things. They love authoritarianism, and the state using law to control peoples' lives. They're very much militarism, and their "war on terror" is essentially your "perpetual war." Protectionism? Haven't you heard about Trump's attempted trade wars? And absolutely corporatism lol, they've completely sold out that way (see Citizen's United)

I disagree with Lexicus that your average conservative voter is individually a fascist, but I'd say the Republican party most certainly is (and they're actively trying to eliminate democracy and create a single party state), and then by proxy anyone voting Republican is essentially supporting a fascist regime, right?

And for Nazi, I don't think people are literally saying they're like historical transplants from WW2 Germany, but rather they're Nazi-like, if I'm making sense? They're pretty much the same as them, using the same tactics and the same end goals (especially related to ethnic superiority), but instead of targetting Jews (and Nazis also went after Slavs, Romani, Jehovah's Witness, etc), they're going after Hispanics and Arabs.
 
I disagree with Lexicus that your average conservative voter is individually a fascist,

That's not the claim I'm making. I don't care whether they're convinced fascists in their hearts and minds or not. The effect of their political activity is to move the US closer to fascism. That makes them fascists in my book.
 
Just for the historic background: Nazi is primarily a slur coined after WW2. Actual nazis back then did not call themselves nazis, they called themselves national socialists. So, a nazi is by definition a national socialist and an anti-semite, because that is truly at the heart of the ideology. Nazism cannot exist without its specific brand of anti-semitism. Nazism could be viewed as a subset of fascism, though that is disputed. I severely doubt that most of Trump's supporter are anti-semites in any meaningful way, if anything they support Israel and want to hellfire bomb the living **** out of the middle east (or any brown people in general). They're racist. Most definitely authoritarian. But rarely fascist. And almost never nazis. Proper nazis are a real thing, and it really doesn't help to mislabel people.
Just want to pick on this - it was absolutely in use prior to WW2. It wasn't used by the party themselves, specifically, but it was a slur and it was in-use.

Also, it's commonly accepted (no?) that the label of "national socialist" was just a label, and the use of the word "socialist" shouldn't be taken literally.

I agree that words are important, but Nazism wasn't characterised just by its (inherent and pervasive) antisemitism. It was also anti-black, anti-Roma, and generally pro-"Aryan". It might be worth debating what Lexicus means by "basically Nazis" as supposed to being specific with the label itself. I don't know, we could do with a word that maybe differentiates support of Trump's modern, virulent brand of xenophobia and focus on nationalistic pride, but I'd imagine there's a significant degree of overlap in the method, though perhaps not the specific target demographic(s).
 
Just want to pick on this - it was absolutely in use prior to WW2. It wasn't used by the party themselves, specifically, but it was a slur and it was in-use.

Indeed, IIRC it was a pun on a derogatory term for Bavarians.

This is somewhat true. Fascism itself, while it is an authoritarian system, draconic, and almost always dictatorial, is in fact a very volatile system of governance. So volatile in fact that it completely relies on both an out-group to blame for everything and a neighboring enemy to rally against. These are fundamental to fascism, without these counterpoints it could not exist.

Fascism is in many ways revolutionary and active, so I completely disagree that it is like conservatism. Fascism (or national socialism if you want to go there) is, after all, the counterpart to anarcho communism, revolutionary socialism, maoist communism and so forth. But yes, they do both share the idea of the established order being in crisis.

I'm saying that conservatism morphs into fascism when the established order is under threat or perceived to be under threat. I'm not talking about the realm of ideological conviction but rather the practical effect of the conservatives' political activity.

When the system is actually in crisis even liberals and social democrats can in be fascists-in-effect. E.g. when the German Social Democrats allied with the far-right paramilitaries that would eventually form the core of the Nazi SA in order to crush the German revolution.
 
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