ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
yes, my bad
Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR
- Thread starter Lighthearter
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arya126
Squad Leader
Honestly, i dont see what needs to be sorted out. Ravus was wrongly put in jail. The night eagles rescued him in a wave of patriotism. The night eagles get rewarded. Ravus is honored for founding the one true english religion. He did what he had to do at the protest. The night eagles did what they had to do for the country.
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
My point exactly
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
And if he's found guilty, execute him by nailing him to a giant +.
arya126
Squad Leader
Try him? As in a court? Besides the fact that we dont have courthouses yet (or royal courts in a monarchy for that matter), that would just serve to damage relations further with the monks.
Murder? Its the same as in war. And we might as well be at war with buddhism. Eventually the war will turn hot since we now have our own religion. Plus they are monks. They had the permission of both god, and stonehenge. If they can accept what they did, we can too. And whats done is done. We cant change it. And we know what happened. At the very least, i shall try my utmost to avoid any steps that involve criminalizing Ravus. He founded a religion for us. He was our first president. Now he had the sense to give us a wake up call. If you guys really want to punish him, make him do community service for a day. Do so at your own risk. He has an army of monks.
Murder? Its the same as in war. And we might as well be at war with buddhism. Eventually the war will turn hot since we now have our own religion. Plus they are monks. They had the permission of both god, and stonehenge. If they can accept what they did, we can too. And whats done is done. We cant change it. And we know what happened. At the very least, i shall try my utmost to avoid any steps that involve criminalizing Ravus. He founded a religion for us. He was our first president. Now he had the sense to give us a wake up call. If you guys really want to punish him, make him do community service for a day. Do so at your own risk. He has an army of monks.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
First, all demands by the opposition are currently in a state of limbo. This is a crisis, and we all must act together. As a matter of fact, I am asking this: Do you wish to make it so any and all actions taken until this has been worked out do not affect the OSR? This way, the administration members can speak their real opinion without being afraid to say something that conflicts and raise the OSR, and the opposition can speak without worrying about dropping the OSR.
I would have loved to say "try them in a court" rather than "settle down and ask them questions", but I avoided so not to start a heated debate about CoL. However, we need to get everyone (EDIT: both Ravus and the Eagles) organized and hold a public hearing. Townspeople are allowed to gather around and watch the hearing, and at times, pitch in their own opinions. Once everything is sorted out, we can decide what to do.
And Arya, it's LH. Who knows, the Night Eagles may turn out to be Russian spies or something! Lets get the real info out of them formally before any convictions are made.
I would have loved to say "try them in a court" rather than "settle down and ask them questions", but I avoided so not to start a heated debate about CoL. However, we need to get everyone (EDIT: both Ravus and the Eagles) organized and hold a public hearing. Townspeople are allowed to gather around and watch the hearing, and at times, pitch in their own opinions. Once everything is sorted out, we can decide what to do.
And Arya, it's LH. Who knows, the Night Eagles may turn out to be Russian spies or something! Lets get the real info out of them formally before any convictions are made.
Days Later a leaflet appeared in the streets
My fellow englishmen. I have been kidnapped, but perhaps it was right that i was.
Recently i took action against the buddist worshippers of this realm. Did you know that if an enemies religion is in one of our fair cities then the espionage cost of spying on that city is lowered? It is understandable, All Buddists are Brothers in faith, they do not lie, and what one English buddist monk tells a Roman buddist monk will be told to a Russian buddist monk etc. For the last few years all happenings in Liverpool have been seen by anyone spying on us.
It was however, not the blame of any of the english buddists. They were misguided not evil. Thus myself and a unit i founded, the MiB (Monks in Black) offered them a choice. They could prove their loyalty to england after spilling state secrets, or they could die. Many of the pure Buddists and Russians declared they would never support just england. The other englishmen who were just seeking a form of enlightenment were much more openminded and determined to prove their patriotism.
I would like to reiterate again that my original plan was to stay in Ayra's custody untill he and perhaps everyone else, reached a choice in my actions... Also again, why are the vikings supporting Russia? No-one seems to care. Remember war allies have a knock on effect. Once you have two a third is all the more likely. And Rome is a enemy we do not want to fight just yet... Although logic dictates that they may not have iron! seeing as they have Iron working and we have not yet seen any swordsmen...
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OOC: I'm still here, just thought i was in jail and awaiting a decision on my future. I had no idea that Ayers would be caught up in patriotism, although LH did say their would be unforseen consequences for my actions.
This whole plan of action was planned out before the first turn set when the arguements were getting re-cycled so often. LH asked me if i was sure i wanted to go ahead and by the time i'd replied their was allready a first turn set out... so i waited... and watched... and it all started up again.
The main problem was like mathnerd said. Going to the negotiation table could be seen as a sign of weakness for the initiator. Raising or lowering the Opposition level. Both sides were also weary of showing their power because of threats of retaliation. Mathnerd burns down a barraks > Ayra starts EP. Ayra tries to ship of the opposition > Mathnerd starts an armed revolution.
Basically the arguement was in a stalement. Thus as an outside third party who was only trying to lurk yet kept getting pm's from both sides on my opinion of events (or asking myself to decalre sides) well i took things into my own hands. Either i'd become an enemy to both sides so they could work together against me. Or i'd calm things down enough for talk to ensue.
From the looks of things it has calmed down, even if i've started a whole new wave of choas at least it is something different.
@Ayra It was myself who wrote the mini-story up to allowing myself to be dragged to prison. I tried to keep everyone's remarks mainly neautral unless i had a remark from previous posts. I figured it would all be sorted out properly by you all while i was in prison. (I was kidnapped!)
@Mathnerd The english buddists mainly agreed to become servants while some of the spies/idiots/russians who stubborn and died "under mysterious circumstances"
@Cull No Cull! don't give in! even though i seem cursed to not have a quiet life you can still escape! (aside yeah i figured you would end up being in charge of the monks while i was in prison, ah-ha! my other reasos for promting you second in command are revealed!)
My fellow englishmen. I have been kidnapped, but perhaps it was right that i was.
Recently i took action against the buddist worshippers of this realm. Did you know that if an enemies religion is in one of our fair cities then the espionage cost of spying on that city is lowered? It is understandable, All Buddists are Brothers in faith, they do not lie, and what one English buddist monk tells a Roman buddist monk will be told to a Russian buddist monk etc. For the last few years all happenings in Liverpool have been seen by anyone spying on us.
It was however, not the blame of any of the english buddists. They were misguided not evil. Thus myself and a unit i founded, the MiB (Monks in Black) offered them a choice. They could prove their loyalty to england after spilling state secrets, or they could die. Many of the pure Buddists and Russians declared they would never support just england. The other englishmen who were just seeking a form of enlightenment were much more openminded and determined to prove their patriotism.
I would like to reiterate again that my original plan was to stay in Ayra's custody untill he and perhaps everyone else, reached a choice in my actions... Also again, why are the vikings supporting Russia? No-one seems to care. Remember war allies have a knock on effect. Once you have two a third is all the more likely. And Rome is a enemy we do not want to fight just yet... Although logic dictates that they may not have iron! seeing as they have Iron working and we have not yet seen any swordsmen...
-
OOC: I'm still here, just thought i was in jail and awaiting a decision on my future. I had no idea that Ayers would be caught up in patriotism, although LH did say their would be unforseen consequences for my actions.
This whole plan of action was planned out before the first turn set when the arguements were getting re-cycled so often. LH asked me if i was sure i wanted to go ahead and by the time i'd replied their was allready a first turn set out... so i waited... and watched... and it all started up again.
The main problem was like mathnerd said. Going to the negotiation table could be seen as a sign of weakness for the initiator. Raising or lowering the Opposition level. Both sides were also weary of showing their power because of threats of retaliation. Mathnerd burns down a barraks > Ayra starts EP. Ayra tries to ship of the opposition > Mathnerd starts an armed revolution.
Basically the arguement was in a stalement. Thus as an outside third party who was only trying to lurk yet kept getting pm's from both sides on my opinion of events (or asking myself to decalre sides) well i took things into my own hands. Either i'd become an enemy to both sides so they could work together against me. Or i'd calm things down enough for talk to ensue.
From the looks of things it has calmed down, even if i've started a whole new wave of choas at least it is something different.
@Ayra It was myself who wrote the mini-story up to allowing myself to be dragged to prison. I tried to keep everyone's remarks mainly neautral unless i had a remark from previous posts. I figured it would all be sorted out properly by you all while i was in prison. (I was kidnapped!)
@Mathnerd The english buddists mainly agreed to become servants while some of the spies/idiots/russians who stubborn and died "under mysterious circumstances"
@Cull No Cull! don't give in! even though i seem cursed to not have a quiet life you can still escape! (aside yeah i figured you would end up being in charge of the monks while i was in prison, ah-ha! my other reasos for promting you second in command are revealed!)
arya126
Squad Leader
Well as i say what i want here without any reguard to the OSR, that doesnt exactly make my day.
Since the president is the executive here, and i am the president, i have the final say in what we do. The opposition can squeal all they want about us ignoring the english people. But im gonna take up LH's newly given power to me and say this: The english people voted for me. They trust me. And they will put their faith in what i do. They also are mortified at the idea of Ravus being tried, or even summoned to a hearing. They think its a trap. And do you know why? because we already imprisoned him. We have lost their trust. So now i will represent the people in this decision when i say this.
We will not summon either the Night Eagles, or the Founder of our great religion, Ravus. The Night Eagles are also unknown to the public, and i shall like to keep it that way. As far as my public opinion goes, they never existed, and never will. Its just rubbish spread by russians who want to start a revolt with tales of commandos defying the government.
Ravus? He is the peoples savior. I (IC) even follow his new religion. I reacted badly to him in liverpool from shock. He will be free to walk, and i will not force, or even ask him for why he did it, or for any other questions. He is a free man. The government has no questions to ask of him, although if he comes of his own free will to tell the public what he was thinking, we will not stop him either. It is his choice.
(LH give Athers a promotion to captain, and Captain Drashgorth is promoted to colonel. If they will accept it, and assuming the president can contact them. Give them my praise for the break in as well, and my request for them to give advice to the security guards in my palace.(I have a palace?))
Since the president is the executive here, and i am the president, i have the final say in what we do. The opposition can squeal all they want about us ignoring the english people. But im gonna take up LH's newly given power to me and say this: The english people voted for me. They trust me. And they will put their faith in what i do. They also are mortified at the idea of Ravus being tried, or even summoned to a hearing. They think its a trap. And do you know why? because we already imprisoned him. We have lost their trust. So now i will represent the people in this decision when i say this.
We will not summon either the Night Eagles, or the Founder of our great religion, Ravus. The Night Eagles are also unknown to the public, and i shall like to keep it that way. As far as my public opinion goes, they never existed, and never will. Its just rubbish spread by russians who want to start a revolt with tales of commandos defying the government.
Ravus? He is the peoples savior. I (IC) even follow his new religion. I reacted badly to him in liverpool from shock. He will be free to walk, and i will not force, or even ask him for why he did it, or for any other questions. He is a free man. The government has no questions to ask of him, although if he comes of his own free will to tell the public what he was thinking, we will not stop him either. It is his choice.
(LH give Athers a promotion to captain, and Captain Drashgorth is promoted to colonel. If they will accept it, and assuming the president can contact them. Give them my praise for the break in as well, and my request for them to give advice to the security guards in my palace.(I have a palace?))
First, I would like to be the first to accept MathNerd's generous offer.
Second, what do you mean, kidnapped?!
Third, I propose that, at a date to be specified by LH, all the party leaders sit down together and work out a way forward from this new crisis.
Second, what do you mean, kidnapped?!
Third, I propose that, at a date to be specified by LH, all the party leaders sit down together and work out a way forward from this new crisis.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Yes, thank you for your info.
You are very, very wise indeed Ravus. This was a very clear and interesting way to get across the point that the government should cooperate, not be torn in halves like America's government is today. I always complain about how "biased" and "unwilling to speak out" congressmen are, but I realized that our whole government is doing the same thing. This is inherently flawed and is NOT the way to properly govern a nation.
So, I am thinking that we could have a more democratic revolution. Not an armed revolution, but a democratic one. We could implement a system that gives the opposition and administration power, so that we would not need to worry about the OSR. We could state our true opinions, leading to a genuinely good government, one that is a government of the people, by the people, for the people, and one that shall not perish from the earth until the end of history.
You are very, very wise indeed Ravus. This was a very clear and interesting way to get across the point that the government should cooperate, not be torn in halves like America's government is today. I always complain about how "biased" and "unwilling to speak out" congressmen are, but I realized that our whole government is doing the same thing. This is inherently flawed and is NOT the way to properly govern a nation.
So, I am thinking that we could have a more democratic revolution. Not an armed revolution, but a democratic one. We could implement a system that gives the opposition and administration power, so that we would not need to worry about the OSR. We could state our true opinions, leading to a genuinely good government, one that is a government of the people, by the people, for the people, and one that shall not perish from the earth until the end of history.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Arya, I don't mean to contradict my last post, but PLEASE consider the opinions of the rest of the politicians. You have the fate of England in your hands, and we all feel that you are choosing the wrong path. Before you make a final decision, consider again. And rescue Ravus.
Please.
Very good idea, if Arya agrees.
Please.
Very good idea, if Arya agrees.
Lighthearter
President of the United States
Arya - Promotion for Athers/Drashgorth? 2 problems.
1) - Drashgorth is a NAVAL officer - captain of the Morning Glory
2) - The Eagles have vanished. A note appeared on your desk while you were in the bathroom adjacent to your office which was guarded by eight men and no one heard, saw, smelled or even suspected anything. It basically says that the Eagles are off to Wales to keep training and fill in the casualties in their ranks and says that if England ever needs them again then they'll be here, but they have enemies that they'd rather not know where they are.
And if you want such a meeting, then please - Friday. I'm out of contact pretty much from now until Thursday night with a spot in here tomorrow night, so play nice while I'm gone
- Lighthearter
1) - Drashgorth is a NAVAL officer - captain of the Morning Glory
2) - The Eagles have vanished. A note appeared on your desk while you were in the bathroom adjacent to your office which was guarded by eight men and no one heard, saw, smelled or even suspected anything. It basically says that the Eagles are off to Wales to keep training and fill in the casualties in their ranks and says that if England ever needs them again then they'll be here, but they have enemies that they'd rather not know where they are.
And if you want such a meeting, then please - Friday. I'm out of contact pretty much from now until Thursday night with a spot in here tomorrow night, so play nice while I'm gone
- Lighthearter
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
I will proclaim myself to be a Revolutionary, one who wishes for a government in which both the opposition and administration have a direct and unwavering say in the government and where the OSR is of minimal importance.
I hope others will follow me in declaring themselves Revolutionaries as well.
EDIT: This is NOT in any way an armed revolution. It is a completely peaceful revolution.
I hope others will follow me in declaring themselves Revolutionaries as well.
EDIT: This is NOT in any way an armed revolution. It is a completely peaceful revolution.
Sorry, the whole kidnapping thing was me trying to point out that the Eagles took me from prison without my consent. But it's all worked out in the end. I don't need rescuing anymore. Hell if Arya has the power he's talking about my actions have just been sanctified.
Anyway, what was Ayra's second half plan? Seeing as he said he is only halfway through his plots. I assume the army can go train itself against the barbarians either way.
Edit: Please no talking about nailing me to a cross The MiB will just start a riot.
Anyway, what was Ayra's second half plan? Seeing as he said he is only halfway through his plots. I assume the army can go train itself against the barbarians either way.
Edit: Please no talking about nailing me to a cross
The MiB will just start a riot.
arya126
Squad Leader
Um, HE IS NOT KIDNAPPED> WE DO NOT NEED TO RESCUE HIM. The Night Eagles brought him to Ravus-york to found the religion, and they let him go. The Night Eagles are not the enemy. He is a free man and doers not need rescue.
Like i said before, i will not force nor encourage, or discourage any interviews or anything from Ravus. It is my intention to leave him to his quiet life as a saint.
I dont see a crisis here anymore. All we need to do, is to go forward. I dont see a problem. We imprisoned Ravus for some strange reason. Maybe the buddha tried to brainwash us. Then the Night Eagles rescued him so he could found a religion in france. It is over. Ravus is a free man, and i want to have reconciliament with the Night Eagles and apologize for having to make them make a choice. Government or country. They chose country as well as they should have.
If the party leaders want to sit down and dicuss, that is all fine by me. It does not invlove me. I do not lead a party. I am the president. But i must say, i will stand firm on most issues.
I do consider the opinioons of the rest of my administration. I absolutly neglect the opposition because of their radical views. Pacifism for one. There mishandling of the second administration in englands history for 2. Their overall opinion on our policies for 3. I believe that it is impossible to reason with them (MN and WIM. Cull too when he was part of them) most of the time, so i stopped trying. They are dead set on their policies. So i became close to dead set on mmine.
I oppose any change of government reform that MN proposes. I think that it takes power away from the opposition, and it wouldnt get anything done. All his talk of how americas government is bad in RL: its just that. Talk. Hes not a politician, nor does he likely have much of an idea of what they discuss there, their actual policies, and probably feeds into many stereotypes from what i can see.
Like i said before, i will not force nor encourage, or discourage any interviews or anything from Ravus. It is my intention to leave him to his quiet life as a saint.
I dont see a crisis here anymore. All we need to do, is to go forward. I dont see a problem. We imprisoned Ravus for some strange reason. Maybe the buddha tried to brainwash us. Then the Night Eagles rescued him so he could found a religion in france. It is over. Ravus is a free man, and i want to have reconciliament with the Night Eagles and apologize for having to make them make a choice. Government or country. They chose country as well as they should have.
If the party leaders want to sit down and dicuss, that is all fine by me. It does not invlove me. I do not lead a party. I am the president. But i must say, i will stand firm on most issues.
I do consider the opinioons of the rest of my administration. I absolutly neglect the opposition because of their radical views. Pacifism for one. There mishandling of the second administration in englands history for 2. Their overall opinion on our policies for 3. I believe that it is impossible to reason with them (MN and WIM. Cull too when he was part of them) most of the time, so i stopped trying. They are dead set on their policies. So i became close to dead set on mmine.
I oppose any change of government reform that MN proposes. I think that it takes power away from the opposition, and it wouldnt get anything done. All his talk of how americas government is bad in RL: its just that. Talk. Hes not a politician, nor does he likely have much of an idea of what they discuss there, their actual policies, and probably feeds into many stereotypes from what i can see.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Arya, you aren't (AFAIK) a Congressman in RL either.
And honestly, I believe that you dislike this motion because it takes power away from you. But I realized that power isn't as great as it seemed. We were getting close to AR at a point, but it struck me that there is no need. It would simply hurt England, and the point of this is to lead England to success.
And honestly, I believe that you dislike this motion because it takes power away from you. But I realized that power isn't as great as it seemed. We were getting close to AR at a point, but it struck me that there is no need. It would simply hurt England, and the point of this is to lead England to success.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
I may not have been clear enough. I meant our whole government IN THIS REALPOLITIK, not in RL.
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