Rebalance of 2/3 of all civs in April!

[Leucarum]

I find it highly unlikely they'll completely scrap a civilization (or 75% of it).

Arguably they had to do that to fix Victoria...

I doubt it'll happen to many civs but I wouldn't be too shocked to see Georgia, Spain and Mapuche get substantive reworks as their core ideas didn't work out as originally intended, and they could do with being refocussed.

 

[pokiehl]

I have a feeling that this is going to be totally overblown. It all comes from a comment that a moderator made in a livestream chat - wonder if they wish they hadn’t said anything now.

 

[Datgingah]

Oh I agree... if you look way back on this thread, you'll see my realistic tweak was just switching out her normal UA with the Dramatic Ages one (albeight the Dark Age policies for both Normal and Golden Ages) and that would be fine with me. I have no doubt radical redesigns like this would never happen (well, England...). I did this for fun just because I saw some redesigns of some civs others had done here and I thought I'd chip in (and they don't lose the walls... they became the LA - same abilities but opened up a UI slot). Sorry if it was not the point of the forum and if this offended anyone.

Trust me, Georgia is the civ I play the most and I like them how they are - though vastly prefer their DA ability.

Nah you definitely didn’t offend anyone haha. If anything I’m the one being a bit extra in pushing the thread a certain direction. I agree it’s fun, I just thought it might fit better on other threads that’s all. Also Georgia squad represent! (After Mali squad tho cause mali is the most fun)

Arguably they had to do that to fix Victoria...

I doubt it'll happen to many civs but I wouldn't be too shocked to see Georgia, Spain and Mapuche get substantive reworks as their core ideas didn't work out as originally intended, and they could do with being refocussed.

actually they only totally reworked one of the abilities with Victoria, and that was cause they needed a civ with the power focus. Most of her abilities remain mostly intact, if neutered.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I have a feeling that this is going to be totally overblown.

Eh, personally I can't be disappointed by anything the devs do at that this point after the M&C mode. I'm not sure how someone went from "more economic gameplay" to "bizarrely fast and easy culture win" but along as the balance changes are good it'll be fine. That said, I went from excited at the beginning the NFP to kind of wishing it was over already so my lowered expectations are probably a plus in that regard. The civs and leaders, wonders, city-states, great people have been fun and all but almost everything else seems half baked and underdeveloped at this point.

 

[Caprikel]

I'm a fan of Pietato's idea of having Georgia's envoys giving GP points. Not only would it help her getting a religion if she has a Religious city-state nearby, but it would synergize with her current abilities very well, while also allowing her to be more of a generalist civ. I think just throwing in the envoys give GPP + access to Dark age policy cards in every age would give Georgia a reasonable buff while also making her much more interesting to play. It would also be an easy change to do, which is something that needs to be prioritized if you want it to have any real chance of being added at this point in the games development.

 

[Leucarum]

actually they only totally reworked one of the abilities with Victoria, and that was cause they needed a civ with the power focus. Most of her abilities remain mostly intact, if neutered.

I did say arguably, as how much of a rework constitutes a total overhaul is subjective. That said, her cultural focus was removed and replaced with an industrial one, which to me counts as a pretty major overhaul in that it flipped how she tries to win on its head. There aren't many civs which need that level of intervention though I think. Spain and Mapuche definitely, Georgia I'm a little more on the fence about but probably put them in this category.

 

[InsidiousMage]

That said, her cultural focus was removed and replaced with an industrial one, which to me counts as a pretty major overhaul in that it flipped how she tries to win on its head.

The oddest thing about the England rework is that Eleanor really seems to have been designed with the British Museum in mind. Not sure why the couldn't have made Germany the industrial powerhouse, especially since they have the Hansa. Get ride of the building discount and let the Hansa stockpile resources and it would work fine.

Spain and Mapuche definitely, Georgia I'm a little more on the fence about but probably put them in this category.

Change Georgia's wall discount to faith purchasing walls and then give Tamar a 5% percent faith bonus per city-state suzerain and I think that would be enough.

 

[Leucarum]

The oddest thing about the England rework is that Eleanor really seems to have been designed with the British Museum in mind.

Engleanor would have definitely outshone Freleanor? Assuming they didn't just really want to give autotheming to Sweden that's the best I've got...

 

[InsidiousMage]

Engleanor would have definitely outshone Freleanor? Assuming they didn't just really want to give autotheming to Sweden that's the best I've got...

I mean Kristina themes basically everything while England could only theme the BM but who knows. I would love for Firaxis to explain their design decisions and what not so I can better understand the game but it feels like anything that isn't related in some way to getting people to buy the game is treated like a state secret.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The oddest thing about the England rework is that Eleanor really seems to have been designed with the British Museum in mind. Not sure why the couldn't have made Germany the industrial powerhouse, especially since they have the Hansa. Get ride of the building discount and let the Hansa stockpile resources and it would work fine.

i can only imagine Eleanor building museums that can house six great works.

That being said the Industrial Revolution started in England/Great Britain so it makes sense why they got the bonuses they did. Plus I think Eleanor would have been overpowered with the British Museum.

 

[InsidiousMage]

i can only imagine Eleanor building museums that can house six great works.

That being said the Industrial Revolution started in England/Great Britain so it makes sense why they got the bonuses they did. Plus I think Eleanor would have been overpowered with the British Museum.

It's just weird that Firaxis redesigned England and added an alt leader that has anti-synergy with the civ. It's almost as bad as playing as Chandragupta but at least then the Varu is actually useful.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It's just weird that Firaxis redesigned England and added an alt leader that has anti-synergy with the civ. It's almost as bad as playing as Chandragupta but at least then the Varu is actually useful.

I always found the British Museum to be more anti-synergy from the rest of England/Victoria's abilities, which revolve around domination.

England, in my opinion, is a civ that still primarily revolves around domination. Victoria is more straightforward with her redcoats and using naval warfare. Eleanor's approach is more passive and uses great works to flip cities without having to go to war.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I always found the British Museum to be more anti-synergy from the rest of England/Victoria's abilities, which revolve around domination.

Eh, I like Archeological Museums as source of culture in domination games since you should have decent production anyway but going from one anti-synergy leader to another is still weird.

England, in my opinion, is a civ that still primarily revolves around domination. Victoria is more straightforward with her redcoats and naval bonuses. Eleanor's approach is more passive and uses great works to flip cities.

I've tried English Eleanor once or twice but playing as England without Victoria feels like playing a half finished civ.

 

[The Civs 6]

The oddest thing about the England rework is that Eleanor really seems to have been designed with the British Museum in mind. Not sure why the couldn't have made Germany the industrial powerhouse, especially since they have the Hansa. Get ride of the building discount and let the Hansa stockpile resources and it would work fine.



Change Georgia's wall discount to faith purchasing walls and then give Tamar a 5% percent faith bonus per city-state suzerain and I think that would be enough.

Please no lazy % based bonuses!

 

[InsidiousMage]

Please no lazy % based bonuses!

That's probably what the balance updates are largely going to be. New abilities for the few leaders/civs that need them but I image its mostly about bringing the old civs in line with the NFP ones which easiest to do with just more yields since I imagine it is easier to design and balance, especially if it really is 2/3 of the pre-NFP civs.

 

[The Civs 6]

That's probably what the balance updates are largely going to be. New abilities for the few leaders/civs that need them but I image its mostly about bringing the old civs in line with the NFP ones which easiest to do with just more yields since I imagine it is easier to design and balance, especially if it really is 2/3 of the pre-NFP pass civs.

Good point. I just don't like bonuses that are simplistic modifiers.

 

[Datgingah]

Good point. I just don't like bonuses that are simplistic modifiers.

Well most yield based abilities can be boiled down to a flat bonus or a percent one. I personally prefered the great prophet point instead of percent bonuses (just cause getting religion is nice), but I don't think simplistic modifiers are bad if they have interesting conditions around them? Like Scotlands bonus happiness yields give them an interesting play direction and I wouldn't say are boring (and its really one of the only good parts of their kit!)

 

[CromulentRomulan]

i can only imagine Eleanor building museums that can house six great works.
.

This is Eleanor in Corporations mode!

 

[Foulweather]

I am still underwhelmed by Indonesia's Great Nusantara ability. A minor adjacency from coast doesn't seem powerful enough to be a civilization's ability, especially for campuses and holy sites which need mountains, which are usually rare in archipelago maps. But a standard adjacency would be too much, so I'd just like to see something added to it, such as Great Merchant Points from improved land luxury resources, which will let you compete for Great Merchants (and therefore Corporations) without having Commercial Hubs (which you probably won't, since you'll have Harbors, and archipelago maps don’t have a lot of rivers).

Edit: I also like the idea from p0kiehl's Civilizations Expanded mod to let Indonesia purchase Harbor and Water Park buildings with faith, to give them something to use that passive faith generation on that's not just naval domination.

 

[Archon_Wing]

's just weird that Firaxis redesigned England and added an alt leader that has anti-synergy with the civ. It's almost as bad as playing as Chandragupta but at least then the Varu is actually useful.

Eleanor is a domination leader, which works well with England as a civ that mostly has military abilities.

The real meme is Fraleanor, but then again France is basically a blank civ, so synergy or not doesn't matter.