Rebalance of 2/3 of all civs in April!

[Myomoto]

You think we will see major balance changes to other stuff besides civs? I would still very much like to see some of governments retouched a bit.

 

[8housesofelixir]

You think we will see major balance changes to other stuff besides civs? I would still very much like to see some of governments retouched a bit.

The wording of their statement doesn't seem so though.

Still, I would like to see a serious nerf on chopping and pillaging. Far too profitable with little cost.

 

[bbbt]

One thing to consider is that some civs might get game mode specific abilities/buffs. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of civs got bonuses for Corporations mode (maybe Germany?) or some besides Gilgamesh got bonuses to Heroes (Greece?), and then there's still one other game mode coming too.

Aren't there two more coming? A free barbarian one next month and the unknown DLC one in March? Or is the barb one still just guessing?

 

[bengalryan9]

Aren't there two more coming? A free barbarian one next month and the unknown DLC one in March? Or is the barb one still just guessing?

I think you are correct, though I don't think the barbarian mode is confirmed by any stretch yet. All we can say with 100% certainty is that we know we're getting at least one more mode.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

One thing to consider is that some civs might get game mode specific abilities/buffs. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of civs got bonuses for Corporations mode (maybe Germany?) or some besides Gilgamesh got bonuses to Heroes (Greece?), and then there's still one other game mode coming too.

I would have thought it would have been the Netherlands for corporations. Unless they are saving it for a future civ?

Still, I would like to see a serious nerf on chopping and pillaging. Far too profitable with little cost.

I do think the new Preserve district is supposed to be somewhat of a counter to just chopping, or at least an interesting alternative, at least.

 

[bengalryan9]

I would have thought it would have been the Netherlands for corporations. Unless they are saving it for a future civ?

There are several civs that I think bonuses to corporations would fit. I just said Germany because I want more of a reason to play them (I play peacefully most of the time). Nothing says these types of bonuses can only go to one civ, either.

Japan would probably make sense as well... maybe the bonus could tie into their electronics factory to buff that particular building, for example?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There are several civs that I think bonuses to corporations would fit. I just said Germany because I want more of a reason to play them (I play peacefully most of the time). Nothing says these types of bonuses can only go to one civ, either.

Japan would probably make sense as well... maybe the bonus could tie into their electronics factory to buff that particular building, for example?

I do agree and find it funny that no civ, no matter which one, did not get any unique bonuses toward the new game mode unlike the previous two.

 

[bbbt]

There are several civs that I think bonuses to corporations would fit. I just said Germany because I want more of a reason to play them (I play peacefully most of the time). Nothing says these types of bonuses can only go to one civ, either.

I find Germany pretty decent as a peaceful Civ from the combo of the Hansa and the extra district per pop, if a little bland. They are one of my go tos if I explicitly don't want a religious game.

 

[bengalryan9]

I find Germany pretty decent as a peaceful Civ from the combo of the Hansa and the extra district per pop, if a little bland. They are one of my go tos if I explicitly don't want a religious game.

For sure - they are solid, they're just not very sexy.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think it's a fun district placement puzzle with germany

 

[mightygodking]

Honestly, when they talk about rebalancing 2/3rds of all civs, to me that says the bulk of them and possibly all of them are going to be power-ups rather than nerfs. The design philosophy for new civs has been obvious for some time: if every civ is overpowered in its own distinct way, then the game is roughly balanced and that's fine. The problem with Gran Colombia and Byzantium isn't that they're too powerful - they're fun to play! The problem is that there are too many civs that aren't anywhere near the level of Gran Colombia and Byzantium. No Civ player thinks of the Norse or India as being anything other than a handicap civ, and if that's all they are then what's the point of them?

So, if 2/3rds of the civs are going to be reworked, it's going to be the bottom 2/3rds. Norway, Georgia, Spain and Mapuche need total reworks; Cree and Kongo need their specific themes severely reworked to be competitive; Scotland and Khmer aren't exactly bad but basically play like mediocre versions of stronger civs that do the same general thing; France and Rome are bland; Scythia needs their power level pumped up. That sort of thing.

 

[Linklite]

Honestly, when they talk about rebalancing 2/3rds of all civs, to me that says the bulk of them and possibly all of them are going to be power-ups rather than nerfs. The design philosophy for new civs has been obvious for some time: if every civ is overpowered in its own distinct way, then the game is roughly balanced and that's fine. The problem with Gran Colombia and Byzantium isn't that they're too powerful - they're fun to play! The problem is that there are too many civs that aren't anywhere near the level of Gran Colombia and Byzantium. No Civ player thinks of the Norse or India as being anything other than a handicap civ, and if that's all they are then what's the point of them?

So, if 2/3rds of the civs are going to be reworked, it's going to be the bottom 2/3rds. Norway, Georgia, Spain and Mapuche need total reworks; Cree and Kongo need their specific themes severely reworked to be competitive; Scotland and Khmer aren't exactly bad but basically play like mediocre versions of stronger civs that do the same general thing; France and Rome are bland; Scythia needs their power level pumped up. That sort of thing.

That's what I'm hoping. Although, I hope that they don't go down the "everyone has a strong bonus and a malus to counter it" route, we still need balanced civs that you can just pick up and play. I wouldn't say that Babylon fits that bill.

Just to pick one out, I'm not sure Scythia needs boosting, they may not be GC powerful, but the free cavalry certainly means that they are no weaklings either.

 

[Buktu]

Just to pick one out, I'm not sure Scythia needs boosting, they may not be GC powerful, but the free cavalry certainly means that they are no weaklings either.

I feel like the free extra cav is just the icing on the cake. The real deal are +5 combat strenght against wounded units, which is basically a free GG in terms of combat strength. Also the healing from kills is super nice as well.
I would maybe work on their UU (+1 range maybe? and maybe dont grant one for free when you produce one) and UI (some scaling with later techs/civics like most (all?) other improvements have).

 

[Jimdigriz]

Good news and this will stop me playing it until then which is actually a good thing!

Too many of the Civ's are so niche that I just don't even want to play as them and keep sticking to the same small number of Civ's despite knowing I should try some of these more challenging Civ's. Having very map-dependent Civ's is a real turn-off for me because who wants to have to keep restarting games to get a half-decent map?

 

[Linklite]

Too many of the Civ's are so niche that I just don't even want to play as them and keep sticking to the same small number of Civ's despite knowing I should try some of these more challenging Civ's. Having very map-dependent Civ's is a real turn-off for me because who wants to have to keep restarting games to get a half-decent map?

I'm not sure I agree with too many being niche, but I do agree that the niches are often too map- or even start-dependent. Mali is just going to suck hard if they spawn in an archipelago.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Seeing how monthly update schedule is handled (as in number of bugs presented) I'm really worried they gonna mess more than balance things, but will see....

 

[Jewelrunna]

The wording of their statement doesn't seem so though.

Still, I would like to see a serious nerf on chopping and pillaging. Far too profitable with little cost.

Might be a controversial opinion, but I really don't want a nerf to chopping, not at least without a production-cost reduction as well. Production costs are way too high for how scarce a resource production is. I personally think it's ridiculous to start building a wonder and have it reliably arrive in the next era, not the one I started it in. And on top of that, it's pretty hard to pump out military units, especially if you're a Civ that has a mid-to-late-game unique unit that doesn't upgrade from anything, like England, France, Japan, etc.

By all means, nerf chopping, but in the current state of the game, it's like the only way to stay competitive with the AI on higher difficulties. If you nerf chopping and don't improve production costs, the game is going to feel really, really bad.

I feel like the free extra cav is just the icing on the cake. The real deal are +5 combat strenght against wounded units, which is basically a free GG in terms of combat strength. Also the healing from kills is super nice as well.
I would maybe work on their UU (+1 range maybe? and maybe dont grant one for free when you produce one) and UI (some scaling with later techs/civics like most (all?) other improvements have).

It's the reason I still consider Scythia an S-tier Civ even post-nerf, which might be a contrarian opinion from the rest of the forum. That combat strength boost is just so powerful. It's also the reason I don't think the Saka Horse Archer is a garbage unit, though without context it's pretty bad on its own merits. With Scythia, however, it's pretty easy to have the Saka ride up to a unit, give it a little poke, making the unit wounded, and then have your actual cavalry ride up and get that +5 CS boost from Killer of Cyrus.

 

[iammaxhailme]

You think we will see major balance changes to other stuff besides civs? I would still very much like to see some of governments retouched a bit.

I hope so. Even with some of the recent changes, the four secret societies are way out of balance with each other... my inclination is basically to pick the voidsingers 80% of the time, the owls 15% of the time, and the other two a combined 5%

 

[Mount Suribachi]

I feel like the free extra cav is just the icing on the cake. The real deal are +5 combat strenght against wounded units, which is basically a free GG in terms of combat strength. Also the healing from kills is super nice as well.
I would maybe work on their UU (+1 range maybe? and maybe dont grant one for free when you produce one) and UI (some scaling with later techs/civics like most (all?) other improvements have).

Their HA's are so bad, I've tried Scythia several times and quit every time. They die so so so so so easily. Yay, you get two of them, that merely means you get another unit for the AI to carve through before you can do anything. They need more movement, or more range, or higher strength, something, anything to make them survive past contact with the enemy.

 

[Uberfrog]

Their HA's are so bad, I've tried Scythia several times and quit every time. They die so so so so so easily. Yay, you get two of them, that merely means you get another unit for the AI to carve through before you can do anything. They need more movement, or more range, or higher strength, something, anything to make them survive past contact with the enemy.

Being able to move after attacking would be nice, and make them accurate to the tactics of historical horse archers.

Firaxis gave this ability to the Voi Chiến, despite its high combat strength. I don’t know why they refuse to give it to the Keshig or Saka horse archers.