Rebalance of 2/3 of all civs in April!

[DefiantMars]

Being able to move after attacking would be nice, and make them accurate to the tactics of historical horse archers.

Firaxis gave this ability to the Voi Chiến, despite its high combat strength. I don’t know why they refuse to give it to the Keshig or Saka horse archers.

Maybe they were scared of Scythia's unit doubling and Tomyris's healing when combined with being able to move after attacking? I think the field has changed enough that allowing them to do so is worth considering

I'm generally not a fan of pure Warmonger Civs unless they have an interesting hook, like Alex getting Eurekas and Inspirations when taking cities, or the Ottomans with Ibrahim. So I wouldn't know what to suggest to improve Scythia. All I know is that the Kurgan is indeed lame.

 

[Navelgazer]

I suppose that, since the Corporations game mode just, you know, a game mode, it wouldn't make sense to rebalance civs around it, but since I'm 100% always going to be playing with it on now and think it really just should have been added to the game proper, I'd love to see some balancing of underpowered economic civs around it, particularly Netherlands and Phoenicia, and potentially Magnificence Catherine.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Being able to move after attacking would be nice, and make them accurate to the tactics of historical horse archers.

Firaxis gave this ability to the Voi Chiến, despite its high combat strength. I don’t know why they refuse to give it to the Keshig or Saka horse archers.

I agree with the Saka, but the Keshig is already plenty strong. It doesn't exactly need the buff.

Also I'm not sure why we need to buff Scythia? They're plenty strong as is, and while the Kurgan is underwhelming, it's good enough for giving Scythia a gold economy to support their army, and gives good faith for Theocracy strats.

IMO, the level of Civ balance should be about to where Arabia is.

Civs that need buffs: Rough Rider America, Brazil, Canada, China, Dutch, Egypt, England, France, Georgia, India, Khmer, Kongo, Mapuche, Maya, Norway, Ottomans, Phoenicia, Poland, Spain, Sweden

Civs that need (minor) nerfs: Australia, Aztec, Babylon, Byzantium, Gran Colombia, Korea, Nubia

 

[DefiantMars]

Civs that need buffs: Rough Rider America, Brazil, Canada, China, Dutch, Egypt, England, France, Georgia, India, Khmer, Kongo, Mapuche, Maya, Norway, Ottomans, Phoenicia, Poland, Spain, Sweden

Civs that need (minor) nerfs: Australia, Aztec, Babylon, Byzantium, Gran Colombia, Korea, Nubia

I'm in favor of slightly buffing the Kurgan, but I do agree with your list of other Civs that could do with some improvements. Although I'm slightly confused as to why China needs help but Scythia is okay.

As for the nerfs, I can't really disagree either. Although I would like to ask, how do you nerf the Aztecs without making them underwhelming? Reduce the production their Builders contribute towards districts? Reduce their Luxury Combat Strength from 1 to 0.5? If you did either of those things, I'd hope that the Tlachtli would be buffed as compensation. Just since it's such a production sink.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Civs that need buffs: Rough Rider America, Brazil, Canada, China, Dutch, Egypt, England, France, Georgia, India, Khmer, Kongo, Mapuche, Maya, Norway, Ottomans, Phoenicia, Poland, Spain, Sweden

Civs that need (minor) nerfs: Australia, Aztec, Babylon, Byzantium, Gran Colombia, Korea, Nubia

Those are good lists. I think that buff are mostly not different abilities but to make there existing one better in more situations, and the nerfs need to be have there existing abilities take more opportunity cost. However, If this really is the end of Civ 6 they should apply any ideas they have been saving for new civs to existing ones.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I think Rough Rider Teddy is more than good enough. The film studio doesn't really mesh well with the rest of his abilities, but it's still strong enough to drive a culture victory even wtihout bull moose's insanity; but also he can get so many envoys from trading with city states that RR Teddy is one of the best diplo victory civs in the game IMO

 

[bengalryan9]

Civs that need buffs: Rough Rider America, Brazil, Canada, China, Dutch, Egypt, England, France, Georgia, India, Khmer, Kongo, Mapuche, Maya, Norway, Ottomans, Phoenicia, Poland, Spain, Sweden

Yeah, I don't know... I disagree with a lot of that list. Brazil? China? The Dutch? Norway?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The only thing I'd want to do to Norway is make the Viking Longship combat strength stronger. At least I feel it shouldn't be slightly stronger than a galley and on par with a Phoenician bireme.

I wouldn't mind at all if they moved it to Shipbuilding as a Classical Era ship and not let it replace the galley at all.

Now that I think about it the Stave Church granting extra production to adjacent unimproved woods tiles could work too.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Yeah, I don't know... I disagree with a lot of that list. Brazil? China? The Dutch? Norway?

Brazil: I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks Brazil is so good, but really I think the only thing they have super going for them is Amazon, but that has a terrain requirement. Everything else around that is just tied to great people, which isn't that useful if you're behind the AI who can generate a lot more great people points than you. They could use a little bit of love.

China: I'll admit they're on the upper-end of fine, but I find that they're a Civ with a few amazing things going for them (Last Emperor, Great Wall tourism) and a few mediocre things (Dynastic Cycles and Crouching Tiger). The latter two could use some love.

Dutch: I'm only really talking about Radio Oranje, which is near useless in my opinion. They could either rework it or buff it into relevancy.

Norway: This post sums up my feelings towards the Longship, but I also feel like the Stave Church could use some love, in the same way that Alexander says or make the faith bonus better.

The only thing I'd want to do to Norway is make the Viking Longship combat strength stronger. At least I feel it shouldn't be slightly stronger than a galley and on par with a Phoenician bireme.

I wouldn't mind at all if they moved it to Shipbuilding as a Classical Era ship and not let it replace the galley at all.

Now that I think about it the Stave Church granting extra production to adjacent unimproved woods tiles could work too.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about buffing them to the moon, but just like, minor touchups.

 

[DefiantMars]

Yeah, I don't know... I disagree with a lot of that list. Brazil? China? The Dutch? Norway?

Personally, I don’t think those Civs would need much of anything, they’re just have one (or two) uniques that are less than impressive.

• Brasil’s Carnevale/Copacabana. Amenities are a bit better now. I sometimes wish the city project or something was better, but the rest of the Civ is already solid I don’t think you could buff the UD without nerfing Pedro’s LA.
• China’s Crouching Tiger and placement rules for the Great Wall could be a bit better.
• I think the issue with the Netherlands is Wilhelmina’s Radio Oranje being kind of meh. Also I’m on the Marsh Polder train.
• For Norway, it’s just the Stave Church that I think is super weird. I just wish it was a bit more connected to the rest of Norway’s abilities. The suggestion I really liked was having it give a fraction of the production of naval and berserker units as Faith. I don’t want to talk about the berserker...

 

[Leucarum]

Hmm... I think Qin is fine. That extra worker charge alone makes them strong.

Norway is arguably the favourite min maxer civ given how much yield they can pillage so I find it difficult to advocate buffing them. And the ability is so thematic I wouldn't like to see them reworked.

Amazon and the Dutch river placement bonuses are superb but I would be ok with a slight buff to either.

I'm not certain I'd nerf Nubia. Pitati archers are amazing but thats pretty much Nubia's trick so I'd be ok with letting them keep it.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Personally, I don’t think those Civs would need much of anything, they’re just have one (or two) uniques that are less than impressive.

• Brasil’s Carnevale/Copacabana. Amenities are a bit better now. I sometimes wish the city project or something was better, but the rest of the Civ is already solid I don’t think you could buff the UD without nerfing Pedro’s LA.
• China’s Crouching Tiger and placement rules for the Great Wall could be a bit better.
• I think the issue with the Netherlands is Wilhelmina’s Radio Oranje being kind of meh. Also I’m on the Marsh Polder train.
• For Norway, it’s just the Stave Church that I think is super weird. I just wish it was a bit more connected to the rest of Norway’s abilities. The suggestion I really liked was having it give a fraction of the production of naval and berserker units as Faith. I don’t want to talk about the berserker...

Agree with all of this, but I think Dynastic Cycles is way more underwhelming than people give it credit for.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I think if the Stave Church was a shrine instead, it would be a huge improvement. Getting production from sea resources can be pretty good for a coastal domiation civ, the problem is that the Stave Church requires way too much investment to get to.

Personally I'd just replace it with runestones. Make it do basically the same thing... +some faith, more faith form adjacent woods and mountains, if the city has a rune stone, +1 production from sea resources. Requires masonry. etc

 

[8housesofelixir]

Agree with all of this, but I think Dynastic Cycles is way more underwhelming than people give it credit for.

One thing about the word "Dynastic Cycle" is that, its original meaning in Chinese (朝代循環) indicates a strong sense of "vicissitude" or "dynasties will always rise and fall". I feel like the devs missed a huge opportunity to address that when updating civs in Rise and Fall DLC. If following this line of thought, the Eureka bonus can be changed to something related to Golden Age, or directly tied to Golden Age.

 

[DefiantMars]

Agree with all of this, but I think Dynastic Cycles is way more underwhelming than people give it credit for.

I'm pretty sure people disregard that because of how much incidental Culture and Science the Chinese CA provides. Based on my observations, my theory is that the act of getting Inspiration boosts generally feels good, so we're generally willing to overlook the lack of flashiness Dynastic Cycles provides. That combined with the wonder boost of Qin Shi Huang, I think makes players rate China more highly.

I'm not opposed to a rejiggering China's abilities to be more flavorful and engaging. Might be a good opportunity to make Kublai more integrated with China. I feel like there is a strong argument to do the same to France for the same reasons.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I’d like to see Germany get the extra trader/trade route buff from completing a Hansa happen

 

[bengalryan9]

The only thing I'd want to do to Norway is make the Viking Longship combat strength stronger. At least I feel it shouldn't be slightly stronger than a galley and on par with a Phoenician bireme.

I wouldn't mind at all if they moved it to Shipbuilding as a Classical Era ship and not let it replace the galley at all.

Now that I think about it the Stave Church granting extra production to adjacent unimproved woods tiles could work too.

I disagree. The Longship is already practically invincible, because it can go into ocean tiles that nobody else can AND can heal in those tiles whether you own the tile or not. Train a couple of them (which Harald can do very quickly) and you can reek havoc on a neighbor without losing a single ship. Nobody outside of Kupe can even reach them until cartography. They'd be completely OP if they were stronger IMO.

Brazil: I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks Brazil is so good, but really I think the only thing they have super going for them is Amazon, but that has a terrain requirement. Everything else around that is just tied to great people, which isn't that useful if you're behind the AI who can generate a lot more great people points than you. They could use a little bit of love.

Lots of civs only have one thing going for them, and Amazon is really, really good. As long as you're willing to not chop it's easy to get campuses, theater squares, commercial hubs, and holy sites (especially if you take sacred path on top of it) with crazy good adjacencies. You get cheap ECs to further buff your theater squares AND will eventually give you science from those rainforest tiles you left around once you build zoos, with a special project that's great for generating GPP, and on top of that you get a really good early battleship unit. I think they're very underrated personally and have always found them to be very strong (*if* you're not someone who lives and dies by chopping). I think they'd benefit a ton from the new Shrine district as well (which pairs beautifully with the appeal from Amazon), though I have yet to play them since the patch.

The only change I would make is I'd make it so that their UDs didn't take count towards the district limit from population. That'd make it even more tempting/attractive to build them ASAP.

 

[Pietato]

All I know is that the Kurgan is indeed lame.

Guard your neck, bro.

 

[blackbutterfly]

The film studio doesn't really mesh well with the rest of his abilities,

It should've been an improvement like Canada's ice hockey rink.

 

[DefiantMars]

Guard your neck, bro.

It's just my opinion. I don't consider 1 Gold and 1 Faith base that can become 3 Gold and 1+(≤6) Faith when you have Horses, Cattle, or Sheep in the Modern era to be that impressive. But at the same time, it is not the hill I will die on. That honor goes to the Khmer's Grand Barays; which are not nearly watery enough for my liking.