Referendum on Scottish Independence

[Manfred Belheim]

Which has nothing in particular to do with the subject at hand.

This has been a curiosity of mine for a while...why do people make the wild assumption that somehow this whole voting process goes off as designed? It seems like it would be well worth the minor effort to just rig the blazes out of the whole thing.

So it's a wild assumption that the election WASN'T rigged? Okay...

 

[Borachio]

Which has nothing in particular to do with the subject at hand.

This has been a curiosity of mine for a while...why do people make the wild assumption that somehow this whole voting process goes off as designed? It seems like it would be well worth the minor effort to just rig the blazes out of the whole thing.

I think it's a valid assumption to make; of a "mature" "democratic" system. Electoral commissioners know their business. They've been doing it for a long time.

And much depends on the credibility of the affair.

Why do you assume the opposite? That the whole thing is a vast conspiracy?

Rigging it totally wouldn't be a trivial matter at all. There's just too many people involved, imo. And someone, somewhere, would be sure to blab.

Sometimes (if not always, in fact) it's just plain easier to be honest and straightforward.

 

[Ghpstage]

Well that's my point. Cameron has nothing to gain, now, by following up on his vague promises to Scotland, and nothing to lose if he doesn't. Whereas he has far more to lose if he angers his English MPs and voters.

I don't trust him to do anything that isn't going to benefit him or his party either, he's not just a politician, he's a tory politician afterall.

But, he could gain some trust with some voters, which is always useful for a politician, particularly when you have a track record of breaking promises and one of your key policies for the next election is on a future referendum.
But more importantly he's made the same kind of promises across England and the rest of the UK now too, and even put a timeframe on it. I can't see he would have done that if he didn't intend to at least make an effort, else he may as well had put a landmine under his feet.

There's quite a few ways I can think of that may help him by following through, on the English matters particularly,

• Welsh and Scots not voting on English matters will hurt Labour,
• Trust gained from following through,
• If he does a half decent job for being the 'leader' of a massive cross party project,
• It'll distract from most other issues (other than the economy, which labour aren't exactly credible on right now) if he can keep it the hot topic,
• It will likely appeal to UKIP voters as well as wavering tory voters and members,
• Will solve, or at least provide a path to solving a long running cause of English 'victimhood'

At the very least if he does a half decent job and loses the election anyway, being a pioneering politician to major British reform that hasn't erupted from a scandal would be a decent enough legacy for him as PM, else he'd only be remembered for messing up the NHS while increasing the need for foodbanks.

 

[REDY]

I voted undecided, but I think that Scottish independence would be worse for UK than for Scots. Being in one country is best for anyone.

 

[Peck of Arabia]

Well, this is all over but now we've opened a Pandora's box, constitutionally with a taste of it last night: John Redwood was on talking about the West Lothian Question and whether Scottish Members should be barred from the house when talking about English matters, a Plaid Cymru person was on complaining about the Barnett formula, and how it was unfair to the Welsh and, well, I didn't hear anything from Northern Ireland but I'm sure they had something to say on the matter; these are interesting times.

Also UKIP have long had a "federal UK" model; they would like to return to pre-devolution, but realise that they genie is out of the bottle and there is no reasonable way of getting the devolved parliaments to vote themselves out of existence.

 

[Flying Pig]

I'm not convinced. This is the man who promised he wouldn't fiddle with the NHS.

Cameron's focus over the next eight months will be the general election campaign, in which English voters will be infinitely more important to him than Scottish ones. And I don't think those voters will be quite as happy about the prospect of more powers and more money going to the Scottish parliament when an English one still doesn't even exist.

The impression I get from the BBC et al is that solving the 'English Question' is going to be as much a part of the (seemingly frantic) schedule of lawmaking in the next few months as the Scots themselves. Certainly it's in Cameron's interests to do so, and the other parties as well. Remember that in order to win, any party needs to carry a fair chunk of England. Being seen as a 'Scottish mafia' was damaging to Brown's government, after all.

 

[Plotinus]

Well, if they do manage to do that, then that's a good thing. Although if it means English nationalism is going to get a resurgence as well, it's not.

 

[Flying Pig]

I'm not sure that English nationalism, flavoured like Scottish or Welsh nationalism, would be a particularly bad thing. There are problems with the way that England fits into the UK, and if those can only be addressed by people with wonky philosophies, so be it - picking a misguided side which believes most of what you want is, after all, the whole point of voting. It's only the flavour of nationalism currently represented by the EDL, UKIP and the like which is demonstrably a bad thing.

Also, I've just read that Darling's reaction was 'the silent have spoken'. I'm not sure that makes sense.

 

[Tigranes]

Yes! "No"! Scotts almost ruined Scotland, but not this time, thankfully!


Link to video.

 

[Mise]

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Here, this one has percentages by region:

Only Dundee, Glasgow, and immediate vicinities of Glasgow (West Dunbartonshire, North Lanarkshire) voted Yes.

 

[Domen]

The Glasgowian Republic and the Free City Dundee ???


Link to video.

BTW - when will be the next referendum? Quebec had 1st in 1980, 2nd in 1995 and is planning 3rd for ca. 2015.

 

[Traitorfish]

People's Republic of Clydeside & Dundee.

 

[Benefactor]

I'm going with 56% No, 44% Yes. We'll see tomorrow.

Sooo close .

 

[gangleri2001]

PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

In the year of our Lord 2014, patriots of Scotland, well-informed and having considered all the pros and cons, charged the polling stations. They voted like poet voters. They voted like Scotsmen. And found out that they were better together.

 

[Traitorfish]

A friend expresses his disenchantment:

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

The Glasgowian Republic and the Free City Dundee ???


Link to video.

BTW - when will be the next referendum? Quebec had 1st in 1980, 2nd in 1995 and is planning 3rd for ca. 2015.

Mr Salmon's said this was the last chance for "a generation" or "perhaps a lifetime". Mean age of first childbirth is 29.7 in Scotland so the next referendum should be between 2044 and 2094.

Although I'll be amazed if the SNP stick to those words.

 

[Domen]

Not Flower of Scotland but Granny of Scotland has decided. But don't worry be happy, after 10-20 years you can have another round.

====================

A generation = about 20 years (source: wikipedia).

 

[Traitorfish]

In the year of our Lord 2014, patriots of Scotland, well-informed and having considered all the pros and cons, charged the polling stations. They voted like poet voters. They voted like Scotsmen. And found out that they were better together.

What's getting you so exicted? You've already made it clear that the only thing you see the UK as offering Catalonia is wrecking the EU, and that's just because 8% less plausible.

 

[Domen]

Time to start another thread "Referendum on the UK's membership in the EU 2017".

I guess that Scottish pro-EU votes aren't going to change the inevitable.