Refight the Civil War

[Irish Caesar]

As a bit of an aside, George wanted to secede from the Confederacy?

The States had the same problem in the Confederacy that they did in the Union; they didn't want to be told what to do by a central power. I'm a little fuzzy on the details because it's been a while since I've done any serious reading on the time period (stupid radiation detection!), but I believe that Georgia wanted to secede from the Confederacy over the issue of supplying troops to the conflict. Georgia did not want to send its troops to defend other states; they were supposed to be protecting Georgia and that was it! It was about this time that Sherman decided to torch the place and after that, the issue disappeared...

But the Confederacy suffered from a lot of internal tension which seriously hampered its war effort. I think it still would have lost had it been united, but being under a strong Federal government defeated the purpose of seceding in the first place!

 

[JohnRM]

1. What parts did slavery and the issue of state sovereignty play in the South's secession?

States Rights has been a point of contention ever since the first thoughts of the united States ever crossed anyone's mind. Slavery was just the last straw that brought the whole thing to a head. If you have trouble conceptualizing it, just replace Slavery with abortion. Imagine if the southern states were "Abortion States" and the northern states were "Non-Abortion States" and the north was trying to pressure the south into submitting to the will of the Federal Government, which was governed primarily by those sympathetic to northern causes, among them being the outlawing of abortion.

Obviously abortion is not the same thing is slavery, but it wasn't about slavery as much as it was about the states getting to make their own rules rather than being subjugated by foreigners.

2. Was and is secession Constitutional? Was and is it moral? Is it unjust rebellion pure and simple or something necessary to protect self-government?

I once thought not, but after some debates with some rather intelligent people, I was convinced otherwise. Is/was it the right thing to do? I don't think so. However, one must recognize that the North did not commit acts of aggression until after the South fired upon the Union fortress at Fort Sumter. The simple fact is that for the Union, the Confederacy was a hostile entity. There was no possibility of living side by side, in peace, in the long-term. One of them had to go. It wouldn't have stopped there, though. The Union and Confederacy would have eventually split, themselves. I agree, wholeheartedly, with Abraham Lincoln, that the war was one for our very survival.

3. Who started the civil war? Was it a War of Northern Aggression, or was it started at Fort Sumter and ended with the putting down of the unjustly rebelling states?

This can be debated, day and night, but the first act of physical violence was perpetrated by the Confederacy. Now, it can be very reasonably argued that the war would have occurred anyway, but, it is what it is.

4. Lastly the issue which is probably decided by ones previous responses: What does the Confederate flag mean and should the federal government abide it's usage in state paraphernalia?

The Confederate Flag very literally is the visual representation of the Confederate States of America. It has a lot of different meaning to it, some good and some bad. The passion for freedom is not one that I can honestly attribute to that flag or that nation, nor for the Union, for that matter. I don't think either side took real, true freedom seriously. The war was about power and control. Some people say that the flag stands for State's Rights, and justifiably so, but don't confuse that with freedom. It's power. Some people say that the flag stands for Slavery, and rightly so. The Confederacy held the institution of slavery in very high regard. For a person to fly the Confederate flag and expect people not to think 'slavery' and get mad is like someone flying the Nazi flag, claiming that it stands for the brutality of the Versailles Treaty that ended WWI and not the Holocaust. Get over it.

I have a great interest in the time period and have generally sided with the North or Union. Then again I'm a born and raised New Englander too, but I'm very interested in both Northern and Southern opinions. Even more preferable are the opinions of people who have some specific education on the subject though I'm not sure we have any here.

I have considerably more education on the subject than most people, but mostly from a tactical and strategic perspective, not a political one. My knowledge of the politics before and during are above average, at best.

People who are members of states that didn't exist during the war or are from other countries or didn't participate are barred from contributing . (I'm only half serious)

My great grandmother's side of the family resided in Pennsylvania (Union) at the time and my great grandfather's side of the family resided in Tennessee (Confederacy) at the time. Both families fought in the war.

P.S. The only thing that's not up for debate is that the Battle Hymn of the Republic is one of the most badass songs in American history

Amen!

 

[Godwynn]

1) Slavery wasn't an issue in the beginning of the war but was used shortly after the start to bolster northern resolve.(*see appendage for over looked facts)

2)Maybe. Yes. It was the united states. If some of those states felt being united as a separate nation was a better bet it should have been allowed instead the north went for a land grab.

3)Considering the victor writes the history I'm skeptical of the Ft. Sumter claim. Provocation from the north is never mentioned.

4) It means nothing since the CS no longer exist. It is simply an ode to the past. It has been taken by some groups as a symbol to project hate. Fact: the official flag of the Ku Klux Klan is the American flag.



*
1) Free blacks existed in the south.
2) 6% of Southerners worked in the slave trade.
3) There were white slaves in the south too.
4) Blacks were integrated in the Southern army and treated as equals.
5) Both white and black indentured servants lived in the south.
6) Some blacks were slave owners themselves.
7) Some owned land.

8) There were slaves in the north. (during the war)
9) The black regiment of northern soldiers were illequiped and treated like garbage.
10) The Emancipation Proclamation only freed southern slaves not northern slaves.


Then there is the whole Maryland-Lincoln thing were he held the city at cannon point and illegal detained the politicians denying the state its rights and its peoples rights. The state of MD would have gone to the south were it allowed to exercise its rights.

Just look at how stupid this post is. Thank god we as a society have improved over the last 14 years. Southern sympathizers are finally realizing just how dumb they sound. "There were white slaves!" Haha - ah, okay totally fine to have slavery then. We're tearing down traitorous statues in the south and good riddance.

 

[Broken_Erika]

ZOMBIE THREAD! RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIVES!

 

[Godwynn]

ZOMBIE THREAD! RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIVES!

Run, just like the confederates did.

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: Don't revive antique threads, thank you.