Refusing to shake hands with a woman. Is that discrimination ?

[AVN]

In November our Dutch minister of integration Mrs Verdonk had a meeting with a number of (islamitic) imans. One of those imans refused (because of his faith) to shake hands with her. Something which created some fuss in The Netherlands. Today I heart that the minister will not lodge a complaint against the iman for discrimination. I disagree with her, IMO she should have done that.

But I like to know the opinion of other CFC-ers on this issue too.
Is refusing to shake hands with a woman because one's faith forbids it discrimination ?

Edit : (I hope the poll question is still clear, because I couldn't enter the complete question in the poll )

 

[SeleucusNicator]

It is discrimination. I hope you are not disputing that. I think what you are asking is if it is justified discrimination.

 

[IglooDame]

Ach, I answered in the same context as SN - it is discrimination, but it is not unjustifiable discrimination and it is not damaging discrimination (thus my "no" in the poll).

 

[AVN]

It is discrimination. I hope you are not disputing that. I think what you are asking is if it is justified discrimination.

I'm certainly not disputing that this is discrimination.
And maybe your question was better, but IMHO discrimination is in general not justified.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Isn't it imam instead of iman ??

And yes; shaking hands is a normal non-religious thing between 2 people. Refusing it is at least high impolite and on the edges of injustifyable discrimination.

 

[Mr. Do]

Of course discrimination in general is not wrong- like if a soldier discriminates between a civilian and a combatant. That is technically discrmination, but it obviously isn't a bad thing. A man treating a woman in a manner that he would not treat a man- I'm sure most of us do that sometimes to some extent. In this case, the onus on wheher the discrimination causes offence or not is with the person he refused to shake hands with- and even if she is horribly offended by it, that's not a crime, or, it shouldn't be. It's not like he spat in her face.

 

[nonconformist]

Well, we could say that a man kissing a woman would be discrimination (on the cheek i mean )

 

[CenturionV]

Yep thats discrimination, and like most discrimination it should not be banned or interfered with by the government.

If I don't want to hire/shake-hands-with/provide-services-to, gays, blacks, women, muslims, or anyone else (hypothetically speaking, not that I necessarily do...) I should have the right to, when its my business, my service, or my body, I should have a right to do as I please with it, and deny any part of it to whom ever I want for whatever reason I please.

Discrimination is like hate, its some times wrong, and some times not. And its definetly not something you should be allowed to make a law against, as you can't judge whats in the heart.

 

[Zeekater]

Here's the really funny part:
somebody gave a speech, but most of the imans didn't speak dutch so didn't understand a thing!

 

[EdwardTking]

Yes, it is clear cut discrimination, and unless that imam has suffered some unusual personal trauma e.g. having been castrated by women, it is NOT justifiable.

It is not even religious, I understand there is no clear prohibition in the Koran, merely being either primitive chauvinism or calculated anti-westernism.

 

[AVN]

Here's the really funny part:
somebody gave a speech, but most of the imans didn't speak dutch so didn't understand a thing!

Correct, although not relevant for this discussion.
And the speech was translated into Arabic for the imams.

 

[Mr. Do]

It is somewhat ironic though, as I'm sure there are plenty of people who would refuse to shake hands with a Muslim or anyone of similar origins. Even as distastful as it may be either way, that's their personal choice, and I don't think I would choose to shake hands with either the imam in question or anyone wo'd discriminate in this way. And I'm free to do so!

 

[QuoVadisNation]

Did anyone ever read the children's story where the father tried to make everyone happy and ended up carrying his donkey on his back in some unnatural outlandish pose? There should be limits to the realm of political correctness; it's not as if he was protesting. Or was he?

 

[CenturionV]

Better than this, my martial arts master won't shake hands with anyone, period. I guess he's a very fair discriminator

 

[Rik Meleet]

Better than this, my martial arts master won't shake hands with anyone, period. I guess he's a very fair discriminator

It isn't about shaking hands or not shaking hands. It is about not wanting to shake hands wiht a specifically determined group (women in this case).

More people would see what is meant if it was phrased as "Is refusing to shake hands with a Black person because one's family forbids it discrimination ?"

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Justifiable discrimination, as was said.

 

[luiz]

It is discrimination, but not a crime at all.

 

[Sanaz]

Better than this, my martial arts master won't shake hands with anyone, period. I guess he's a very fair discriminator

I will almost never shake hands with anyone (and never voluntarily), except in "formal" situations where it would be inappropriate not to. A very traditional Muslim man would generally not shake hands (or for that matter, even ever meet with) a woman, so I don't find this surprising at all. It is discrimination, but so are a lot of things. Some cultural lines are more difficult for people to cross than others, so this is a personal thing with no general answer of right and wrong.

 

[GenMarshall]

To me, I have no opinion. I dont look at it as discrimination if you refuse a handshake from another persion whom is different. I normaly accept handshakes from all walks of life the only exception is if my hands are sore (from exsessive typing, writing, working) or if I have a cold or an illnus that is easely transfered via human contact, namely the hands.

I normaly accept handshakes, not give handshakes because I tend to be very cautious and make sure not to offend the persion if they come from a culture that views a common handshake differently.

 

[Stapel]

Any moron in The Netherlands has the right to be a moron. We cannot force this Imam to shake hands or fine him for not doing so. I very much believe in this. He should not be prosecuted for having this (or whatever) opinion.

Yet, it is our Dutch democratic (non-gubernmental) duty to shout of the roofs this man is dumb *******. We should make clear to this miserable sucker that we do not have a single gram of respect for him, his opinion, nor for the extremist parts of his culture/religion that have caused this backwardness.

Yet, when you do so, there is always a left-winger ready to accuse you of discrimination.