Reincarnation: Reality or Myth?

[Gary Childress]

Is reincarnation a reality of human existence or is it a myth? What do you think and why do you think what you do?

Probably the best known, if not most respected, collection of scientific data that appears to provide scientific proof that reincarnation is real, is the life's work of Dr. Ian Stevenson. Instead of relying on hypnosis to verify that an individual has had a previous life, he instead chose to collect thousands of cases of children who spontaneously (without hypnosis) remember a past life. Dr. Ian Stevenson uses this approach because spontaneous past life memories in a child can be investigated using strict scientific protocols. Hypnosis, while useful in researching into past lives, is less reliable from a purely scientific perspective. In order to collect his data, Dr. Stevenson methodically documents the child's statements of a previous life. Then he identifies the deceased person the child remembers being, and verifies the facts of the deceased person's life that match the child's memory. He even matches birthmarks and birth defects to wounds and scars on the deceased, verified by medical records. His strict methods systematically rule out all possible "normal" explanations for the child’s memories.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

Dr. Ian Stevenson formerly from the University of VA. (now deceased or maybe reborn somewhere out there perhaps) appears to have amassed compelling evidence that there are real cases of reincarnation. What do others think. Are his research methods somehow flawed? Should we take his research as serious evidence for reincarnation or should we be more skeptic?

 

[Tahuti]

I don't think Mr. Stevenson's methodology is any good, yet I find it a bit hard to believe - even as an agnostic atheist - there is completely nothing after death as it arguably will leave open questions like why we are here in the first place.

While I have yet to see compelling evidence for reincarnation, I also have yet to see compelling evidence for pure nothingness, or afterlifes linked to judgment which may or may not be in conjunction with reincarnation. Evidence over the afterlife - or lack of it - we will get might never be found at all. In other words, we will left in the dark until we die ourselves.

 

[Borachio]

I'm not only skeptic. I think it's a potentially dangerous idea.

There've been a few cases of people claiming some criminal has been reincarnated and them claiming redress against small children. It's madness if you ask me.

Having said that, I'd dearly love to be able to remember past lives.

Despite not believing in any such thing.

You've really got an uphill struggle to account for disembodied consciousness. But if you could, it would certainly be significant.

 

[Tahuti]

Well, I think that if reincarnation is true, it is unlikely you are able to remember something from your past lives anyway.

While reincarnation has been attacked as wishful thinking, it might have some significant downsides if it is completely randomised. You might reincarnate as a toad for all we know.

 

[Borachio]

I think reincarnation is probably some kind of metaphor for the changing and evolving experience which is human consciousness.

I don't think it's meant to be a literal truth.

 

[Gary Childress]

Well Ian Stevenson has apparently amassed compelling evidence for reincarnation. He's actually done the leg work to track down young children around the world who claim to have lived past lives and then hunted down information on the people they claimed to have been in their former life and confirmed details. Of course there are a lot of naysayers out there but I can't help but wonder if Stevenson is on to something? How else can we explain past life memories that have been verified to be factual accounts of deceased people and places they lived.

 

[Borachio]

There's likely some bias in the research.

If you're not careful you can confirm all sorts of things, like telepathy, simply by filtering out the cases that don't fit.

Ask the Dalai Lama if he can remember his past lives?

edit: still if Stevenson's got convincing evidence, I'm sure it will be all round the world in a twinkle of the eye.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Without spending a lot of time going through Stevenson's raw data, it's hard for me to say. And I haven't got that kind of time. I hope people who are paid to do this for a living will analyse it, so I can compare notes. That I do have time for.

It's not that hard to make data look good after the fact.

How else can we explain past life memories that have been verified to be factual accounts of deceased people and places they lived.

I'll grant you similarities, not factual accounts.

 

[Kennigit]

The link seems to be talking about 1997 or 1988 interviews or the guys own books. What's new?

Without looking at more details, there is no physical mechanism for any of this to happen.

 

[Kyriakos]

Hm, this is interesting, cool thread Gary

I do not have a view on this, whether past lives exist. Moreso if they exist, would they have to be on this earth as well? (assuming they would also be human).

FWIW young childrean potentially can think of a lot of complicated things. I did too, since elementary school, including trying to examine the first point of consciousness i had (but i never managed that cause the pre-school era seemed to be closed by a powerful wall of oblivion, despite being only 2-3 years away).

 

[Borachio]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood_amnesia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

Skeptics such as Paul Edwards have analyzed many of these [Stevenson's] accounts, and called them anecdotal,[69] while also suggesting that claims of evidence for reincarnation originate from selective thinking and from the false memories that often result from one's own belief system and basic fears, and thus cannot be counted as empirical evidence. Carl Sagan referred to examples apparently from Stevenson's investigations in his book The Demon-Haunted World as an example of carefully collected empirical data, though he rejected reincarnation as a parsimonious explanation for the stories.[70]

Objections to claims of reincarnation include the facts that the vast majority of people do not remember previous lives and there is no mechanism known to modern science that would enable a personality to survive death and travel to another body, barring the idea of biocentrism*. Researchers such as Stevenson have acknowledged these limitations.

*Quite what biocentrism has to do with this, I don't have any idea.

 

[Tee Kay]

Reality or Myth?

Belief.

As a Buddhist I should be wary of taking things as fact that have not been conclusively proven.

 

[classical_hero]

How can their be re-incarnation when right now their are more creatures alive than at any time, especially humans?

 

[_random_]

Neither.

Let's stop killing the word "myth" please.

 

[Leonel]

I would like to believe that it exists. Life is too interesting to just have one go and that's that.

How can their be re-incarnation when right now their are more creatures alive than at any time, especially humans?

Maybe they're transferred from destroyed worlds that were asteroided to death?

 

[timtofly]

Neither.

Let's stop killing the word "myth" please.

Are you saying there is a word that keeps coming back as a different meaning? I am having a feeling of deja vu, but is there not another thread somewhere on this topic of late? Perhaps there is a twist on reincarnation and two or more instances of the same entity can actually exist at the same time?

 

[Kyriakos]

^In that sense every word would be a re-incarnation of the dead "myth" term

Which is not that far-fetched, considering that the notion of "myth" probably played a huge part in prehistoric peoples mentality, despite not being (probably) yet juxtaposed with anything else (which is pretty much more reason to think it is the first word for everything)...

 

[Rashiminos]

This isn't one of the things that can be decisively proven as long as one is riding this mortal coil, and even if there was some kind of death-to-life communication, there's no guarantee it would be accepted as such when suitable alternative rationalizations are readily available.

Maybe they're transferred from destroyed worlds that were asteroided to death?

Or destroyed by warfare...

 

[Tahuti]

How can their be re-incarnation when right now their are more creatures alive than at any time, especially humans?

Maybe there are souls waiting for their debut.

 

[Borachio]

Maybe... not only is there transmigration but also the birth of new souls.

Or maybe there's none of this.

Maybe an individual's consciousness slowly develops, following conception, and is totally extinguished on death. Like the flame of a candle being blown out.

Show me a single disembodied consciousness and I'll believe in the possibility of souls.