Religion-only restrictions

Obedience for the sake of obedience? What's the point? I wonder if there are any other places than religion this is considered a virtue.

Well, many religions have goals that are completely different from any other human endeavor, so a comparison may not be relevant.

At any rate, I don't like the way coffee smells, don't see the big deal with tea, and am glad I never started smoking for ALL sorts of reasons, which covers the restrictions everyone is the most familiar with.
 
Well, many religions have goals that are completely different from any other human endeavor, so a comparison may not be relevant.

At any rate, I don't like the way coffee smells, don't see the big deal with tea, and am glad I never started smoking for ALL sorts of reasons, which covers the restrictions everyone is the most familiar with.

For what it's worth, I don't smoke, drink tea, coffee or alcohol myself. :)
Never learned to like it, and not interested to do so.
 
Don't some (most?) Christians believe that God is watching everything you do and judging the crap out of you? So while he might not send lightning bolts down if you drink tea (or whatever you're not supposed to do), you betcha that he'll write your sin down in a book and throw it in your face later.. most likely when you're dead and trying to get into heaven.

That counts, doesn't it?

Not really, no. If I am already so fundamentally flawed that only through grace alone am I redeemable the "naughty list of stuff" isn't a necessary mental exercise.
 
Don't some (most?) Christians believe that God is watching everything you do and judging the crap out of you? So while he might not send lightning bolts down if you drink tea (or whatever you're not supposed to do), you betcha that he'll write your sin down in a book and throw it in your face later.. most likely when you're dead and trying to get into heaven.
A perfect example of an atheist not understanding the faith...
 
Obedience for the sake of obedience? What's the point? I wonder if there are any other places than religion where mindless obedience is considered a virtue.

Well, God has creating the universe and stuff going for him. So it couldn't hurt to listen.

Also, in my view all sins are forgiven by God. You won't go to Hell if you don't feel sorry for sinning, but recognizing your mistakes is a good thing regardless of religion.
 
Yeah, cooking better, etc, that all falls under the "ETC" part of my post.
Christ didn't really change the laws regarding certain meat. Basically, people in the areas that were not Jewish, they were already eating those animals, and continued to...
That is certainly an interesting interpretation, but it is hardly universally accepted:

Is it okay for Christians to eat pork and shellfish?

Yes, it’s okay, providing it isn’t done, as Paul says, when it will cause real offence, such as when inviting a Jewish guest. This is Mark’s comment that Jesus “declared all foods clean”:

Mark 7:18 And [Jesus] said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” Thus he declared all foods clean.

The only exception is where any food — either a “clean” food offered to idols (e.g., beef or mutton), or a food that was unclean to Jews like pork or shellfish, or by extension today beef to a Hindu or meat to a Buddhist — will cause a stumbling block or barrier between someone and belief in Christ. Paul discusses how and why not to offend converts from idol-worship in 1Co.10, and how not to offend converts from Judaism in Rom.14. However, in those chapters Paul repeatedly makes it clear that, apart from not causing other believers (particularly new believers) to stumble, he himself is free to eat anything, and so are Christians.

Paul specifically warns about Christians who try to establish again the Jewish food laws:

1Tim.4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

The rules against pork and shellfish in the Law of Moses were a temporary restriction. Now circumcision, and the Law of Moses generally, has been fulfilled and finished. The following two passages argue from the abolition of circumcision to prove abolition of all the Law.

Eph.2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Col.2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.


Well, to be fair, there are so many Christians that believe so many different things that that must describe someone's views . . .
Indeed. It seems to be a rather prevalent view with many Biblical passages which direclty reference it.

Bible Verses about Judgment Day
 
A perfect example of an atheist not understanding the faith...
Maybe he's an atheist who has been told exactly that by people of faith.

And don't be so smug. You having faith does not mean your understanding of other people's faith is any better than atheist's. In fact, it's likely to be worse because of competition.
 
A perfect example of an atheist not understanding the faith...

Well, to be fair, there are so many Christians that believe so many different things that that must describe someone's views . . .

Eran has it - what you mean is 'a perfect example of an atheist citing a set of beliefs that aren't my own, and I'm claiming to speak for all Christians' - considering that Rick Santorum and Rowan Williams profess to belong to the same religion, I don't think any statement about what 'some Christians believe' can ever be wrong!

Also, in my view all sins are forgiven by God. You won't go to Hell if you don't feel sorry for sinning, but recognizing your mistakes is a good thing regardless of religion.

I've always thought that in the final reckoning you will feel sorry for them - mind you, if I was asked to visualise God I'd probably see Field Marshal Slim, ably assisted by his Sergeant-Major who would no doubt explain, as only such a man can, exactly where and why you screwed up.
 
Maybe he's an atheist who has been told exactly that by people of faith.
Then, as an atheist, he should be smart enough to know that there are many different forms.

And don't be so smug. You having faith does not mean your understanding of other people's faith is any better than atheist's. In fact, it's likely to be worse because of competition.
That has nothing to do with it, but, I clearly understand most versions of Christianity better.

Eran has it - what you mean is 'a perfect example of an atheist citing a set of beliefs that aren't my own, and I'm claiming to speak for all Christians' - considering that Rick Santorum and Rowan Williams profess to belong to the same religion, I don't think any statement about what 'some Christians believe' can ever be wrong!
Yeah, in other words, that is what I was basically saying.
 
If by 'understanding the faith' you meant 'assuming that everyone thinks like me', you're spot on...
I did, in the sense that I understand that within the faith, not everyone thinks like me about the faith... It is no secret to most Christians that we have different denominations with vastly different beliefs. For an atheist to try to crowbar us all into some unified notion is pretty silly.

I think you agree with that idea, no?
 
The whole point with tea (leaf-based tea, not herbal tea, BTW) is that drinking it is not in and of itself harmful, certainly not for non-members, but that it is a way of setting ourselves apart and showing devotion. Lots of religions have similar practices, just with different things.

At who is this show of devotion aimed?

That has nothing to do with it, but, I clearly understand most versions of Christianity better.

Why?
 
At who is this show of devotion aimed?

At God.

Not that God needs it, but that we need it. Showing that we can be obedient in a minor thing does help us with the major things.
 
I did, in the sense that I understand that within the faith, not everyone thinks like me about the faith... It is no secret to most Christians that we have different denominations with vastly different beliefs. For an atheist to try to crowbar us all into some unified notion is pretty silly.
Warpus actually said "some" and then questioned if it would be "most". I'd hardly call that crow-barring all Christians into the a "unified notion".

And why is it important that he might be an atheist? Couldn't any non-Christians, as well as some (many?) Christians, arrive at that conclusion based on the number of passages in the Bible that suggest it?
 
Not that God needs it, but that we need it. Showing that we can be obedient in a minor thing does help us with the major things.

I've never thought of it that way - ironic I know considering a life spent thinking along those terms - but that does make a lot of sense.
 
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