Religious Sects

[Warman17]

7. Judaism
* Sephardic
* Ashkenazi

sigh

Alright let me explain this. Actually you know what, let this explain it -

http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm


If you truly want different 'sects' it'd be Reform, Conservative, Orthadox and Hasidic. The reform movement didn't develop until the mid-1800s and the conservative movement until the 1900s.

 

[vbraun]

I would get confused if there were so many diffrant types. Plus theres 18 civs and you have 26 diffrant religons there. So does Christianity not happen in some games?

 

[Mercade]

Sects add way too much clutter. It's too difficult to balance it and for playability I don't see any advantage other than complexity with too subtle differences.

 

[Voli]

What do you think of the list nonetheless....what to add...what to remove....what to change...

If there are to be religions in Civ4 ( )

I urge developers to put atheism . I don't think it's fair for non religious guys to have to put up with one or another religion [no offense to none religion meant].

 

[kafkaesk]

I urge developers to put atheism . I don't think it's fair for non religious guys to have to put up with one or another religion [no offense to none religion meant].

This wish is based on a misconception.
Atheism is just the lack of religious belief, not an alternative system.
Hence, atheism is implemented best by the option to have a strictly secular state.

Concerning sects, I think it would make this aspect of the game too complicated - I would have preferred a religion/belief/philosophy-system similar to the new government system (which I´m quite happy with), however, which would make this discussion unnecessary.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, Mercade, I would agree with you if sects worked EXACTLY as they will for standard religions. However, my idea is that Sects would appear within a civ largely OUTSIDE the control of that civs player. As for the gameplay value, consider these historical examples.

In the Southern French city of Tolouse-amongst others-a group of Heretics called the Albergiensians, or Catharists, appeared proclaiming a Dualist account of the World-claiming that Satan created the physical world and, therefore, that all material possessions were evil. Thus they called for the Church to renounce all materialism and worldiness in favour of greater spiritualism. This made them an ascetic sect of Christianity. Now, the French could have ADOPTED Catharism as THEIR state religion-but instead they joined forces with Rome to organise a Crusade against the cities of Southern France. Thus, France became a VERY important ally of Rome-an alliance which remained strong for many more centuries.

Now, fast forward to Wittenberg, when Martin Luther nailed his Theses to the Door of the Cathedral. Once again, the rulers of Germany had a choice to either DESTROY his heresy, or to adopt it. They went with the second option, and Rome and Germany had a centuries long falling out over their doctrinal differences. This falling out later spread to Switzerland, The Netherlands and England. In fact, the differences between the Catholic and Protestant nations effected diplomatic relations in Western Europe right up to the 18th and 19th century. Something as potent as the two examples I just cited NEEDS to be reflected in the game if we are to have a genuine model of religion in the game!
Anyway, just a thought!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Xineoph]

sigh

Alright let me explain this. Actually you know what, let this explain it -

http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm


If you truly want different 'sects' it'd be Reform, Conservative, Orthadox and Hasidic. The reform movement didn't develop until the mid-1800s and the conservative movement until the 1900s.

Forget it.....The only difference between Orthodox, Conservative and Reform, is level of observance.......

At least with Sephardic and Ashkenaz, there are some minor differences on how they celebrate holidays, do prayers, and other stuff.

Be happy i didn't add Hollywood Kaballah.


To Voli: I totally agree in some respects.

Much like in a Theocracy, a person can only say in word that they believe in G-d, maybe they secretly are Atheists.

I think the best thing to do in the Atheist Theocracy, would make it so, no religious practices are allowed at all.

Oooooooh that gave me an idea!

Legalism!, it's the perfect religion/government for Atheists...all the people have to is obey the laws, that's about it. =)

What do you think?

 

[alireza1354]

Indeed YES!!!

I will make my islamic sect scenario as I did with civ3

Dont forget Kharijites and Mutazilites

 

[Xineoph]

*looks them up*

Both sects are extinct you know....

You can always rename them in scenarios. =)

 

[Vitor Shen]

I'm up for religion as it has played a major role in History.
However...

What about the religion of the Shamans, Witch Doctors, Chaneling agents... There should be Spiritualism in the game. There quite a bunch of nihilists around here that just want their own belief.

 

[Xineoph]

I put that under the list as sects.

Since Shamanism, Spiritualism etc all fall under the category of Indigenous Beliefs.

Although i do agree atheism should be there.....maybe if your civ, banned religion, you get bonuses to shields....?

 

[Che Guava]

Since Shamanism, Spiritualism etc all fall under the category of Indigenous Beliefs.

Maybe I'm being alittle too PC for a civ forum, but I find the term 'indigenous beleifs' a little broad and a little, well, dismissive:

(1) I don't really understand how you can call Shamanism, Animism, Spiritism, Paganism sects of a larger religion. I guess it's more convinient, but some of those terms overlap in my mind...

(2) When you talk mention 'spiritism', do you mean the beleif founded by Allen Kardec, modern day mediums or ancestor worship? I'll admit that I don't know much about any of them, but a relatively recent faith (like the first two) might seem a little out of place...

(3) I think a lot of the terms mentioned have more to do with large aspects of different faiths. For instance, I think grouping all animist religions together would be akin to lumping all monotheistic religions into one faith

But those aren't really the point: 'indigenous beliefs' just maked me a little uncomfortable in the same way that europeans called african 'tribal dialects' instead of just languages...! ...I'm sure no offense to anyone was intended, and I'll appologize again for innapropriately PC-ranting...

Having said that, I like very much the idea of sects (in fact I think it's a must have for...well, I guess civ V now...), but I don't think the animist/pagan/etc religions should be included. Why not? Well, since those types of faiths tend to be smaller scale, decentralized and very open to personal intepretation, there's not much room for large-scale excercises of power over your own people or your opponents. And in civ, isn't that what it all comes down to?

Although i do agree atheism should be there.....maybe if your civ, banned religion, you get bonuses to shields....?

Sorry, but I had to tag this in too. Why would you get more shields if your country has bannded religion? Do they spend the extra time not worshipping at work?

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

i dont think it should be because it would just clutter up the game and make it more complecated than it already is. and it would take up more space on my harddrive that i dont have...

 

[BigBirdZ28]

Under Islam, you can put Nation of Islam.

The teachings of NoI are so divergent from mainstream Islam that it makes the Difference between Sunni & Shia negligible.

Sunni & Shia differ on historical aspects, some interpretations of law & on the ways ceremonies are held ( funerals, weddings, etc...)

NoI on the other hand believe in a similar way as Mormons.