Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game

[pawelo]

I like the new alternative place for floodplain city by frob, though I've never been a fan of irrigated floodplains. I always cottage them asap. However, I think that Lee is right - we need a fast growing city for whipping before the fall of China. Then we can still cottage the flood plains for growth.

Btw James, when do we continue ? Can we start by tomorrow ( so we can re-discuss early next week ) ?

Cheers

 

[Jamesds]

I think the new dll messed up my ability to play sgotm. I'm going to uninstall and reinstall everything without the unofficial patch. I won't be able to continue. I'm sorry.

Sorry about that rrau, look out for more training games in the future, this probably won't be the last .

I like the new alternative place for floodplain city by frob, though I've never been a fan of irrigated floodplains. I always cottage them asap. However, I think that Lee is right - we need a fast growing city for whipping before the fall of China. Then we can still cottage the flood plains for growth.

Btw James, when do we continue ? Can we start by tomorrow ( so we can re-discuss early next week ) ?

Cheers

Good question . Well, I guess there's no harm in starting now, and I think 40 turns again will be good, to give us all a chance to 'play our game'.

Before we start though, I think it is good for everyone if we all give constructive criticism when possible to each of the player's saves, so we can know why certain saves weren't chosen, and learn from that. Whilst doing that we can nominate a save which we would like to continue with. You can make it brief too, like me .

I will start:

Me: Despite being quick to get a settler out, I realise my second city was not very well placed (in light of the city planning)
frob2900: Quite a solid start IMO since you were quick to get a settler out, but I don't think you placed your second city quite correctly in light of the planning we've been doing. Otherwise, good tech choice and good start.
Zetetic Apparat: You've got a Settler coming soon, you have discovered some important techs (and can already built monuments), but I don't think your choice of Masonry is justified, especially since there isn't any stone/marble, and thus wonders aren't a priority (and I think we need fishing/hunting quicker).
chopstyx: You have developed well, good production in the capital due to mines and good growth from the pigs. You have also built a barracks, and it has slown your settler production too (though it is coming next turn), but this might work out in the future - a good start.
Putchuco: Your militaristic choices have given you a solid defence, which was good since we didn't know whether we were isolated or not. You also have lots of techs (1 from a hut if I remember), the important ones - that's good. However, your military priorities have meant that your settler is the slowest to appear, and only time will tell whether you made the right choice or not! Tell us how you do with continuing your own game in parallel to ours.
pawelo: You have also got a good solid start with a settler out quick. Your tech choice is good, and your city placement is excellent - vote placed here

 

[pawelo]

Me: Despite being quick to get a settler out, I realise my second city was not very well placed (in light of the city planning)
frob2900: Quite a solid start IMO since you were quick to get a settler out, but I don't think you placed your second city quite correctly in light of the planning we've been doing. Otherwise, good tech choice and good start.
Zetetic Apparat: You've got a Settler coming soon, you have discovered some important techs (and can already built monuments), but I don't think your choice of Masonry is justified, especially since there isn't any stone/marble, and thus wonders aren't a priority (and I think we need fishing/hunting quicker).
chopstyx: You have developed well, good production in the capital due to mines and good growth from the pigs. You have also built a barracks, and it has slown your settler production too (though it is coming next turn), but this might work out in the future - a good start.
Putchuco: Your militaristic choices have given you a solid defence, which was good since we didn't know whether we were isolated or not. You also have lots of techs (1 from a hut if I remember), the important ones - that's good. However, your military priorities have meant that your settler is the slowest to appear, and only time will tell whether you made the right choice or not! Tell us how you do with continuing your own game in parallel to ours.
pawelo: You have also got a good solid start with a settler out quick. Your tech choice is good, and your city placement is excellent - vote placed here

Well, I'll go on with my "fifty cents":
JamesDS : I'm comfortable with your start, as you have already your settler on, and your techs are well chosen. Also, you have planned your second city where I would have placed my third or fourth. But since we had discussed new alternate version by frob, we should go along this way. However, you haven't built your second city yet, and can still move it to the floodplains city location. So my vote goes to you.
Frob : Similar remarks as Jamesds. Although I find your evolution and tech choice impressive, I cannot place my vote at you because of this second city Still, your planning and outline of future invasion are great, so I expect much good from your next 40 moves
Zetetic : I like your game so far, though the masonry might have been an overkill. You have great GNP in Babylon, but you don't have the settler up ( well, one is coming soon ). And your stats rock!
Chopstyx : good start and solid improvements around Babylon, this could pay at the long term. But I find the writing research a little bit too early - we need BW much more at this point, and we should get the pottery going for cottages. Writing, with no close AI and no early religion is too expensive and a second order choice.
Putchuco : Your start gives us a solid base in military, limiting the barbarian damage to come soon Still, I wouldn't have built a scout. My personnal opionion only.
Me : it's ok with me if we continue my save. I like this start, and I don't think I have made serious mistakes

Cheers

 

[frob2900]

Well, I'll go on with my "fifty cents":
JamesDS : I'm comfortable with your start, as you have already your settler on, and your techs are well chosen. Also, you have planned your second city where I would have placed my third or fourth. But since we had discussed new alternate version by frob, we should go along this way. However, you haven't built your second city yet, and can still move it to the floodplains city location. So my vote goes to you.
Frob : Similar remarks as Jamesds. Although I find your evolution and tech choice impressive, I cannot place my vote at you because of this second city Still, your planning and outline of future invasion are great, so I expect much good from your next 40 moves
Zetetic : I like your game so far, though the masonry might have been an overkill. You have great GNP in Babylon, but you don't have the settler up ( well, one is coming soon ). And your stats rock!
Chopstyx : good start and solid improvements around Babylon, this could pay at the long term. But I find the writing research a little bit too early - we need BW much more at this point, and we should get the pottery going for cottages. Writing, with no close AI and no early religion is too expensive and a second order choice.
Putchuco : Your start gives us a solid base in military, limiting the barbarian damage to come soon Still, I wouldn't have built a scout. My personnal opionion only.
Me : it's ok with me if we continue my save. I like this start, and I don't think I have made serious mistakes

Cheers

Ok, my 0.5

• Jamesds. Your game is pretty good. You haven't settled the city that would clash with ClamFish yet, so there's nothing negative in placement. Expansionwise it's fair to say you have 2 cities with pop 3+1 since your settler is almost positioned. Lack of Bronzeworking is a minor criticism, but since it's only 4 turns of it's as good as bagged.
• frob2900. Well, I agree with everyone here that my second city isn't placed 100% optimally (as should be clear from my dotmaps ). Also I don't like the fact that I have pops 2+1 in my cities. I'm lagging 1 pop on the others, and I think it is my failure to work the pigs earlier that has done this.
• Zetetic Apparat. Your expansion is a bit slow, but you have good GNP! Also, barracks isn't really so important before you have hooked up copper, so I disagree with that building choice (if we were on the same continent as a non-protective Civ and close, then quick Aggressive Barracks leading to Drill I Bowmen would be a good rush tactic, but unfortunately not in this case).
• chopstyx. Actually, a rather strong game. Your capital is a juicy size 4 with a settler out next turn or so, and since you have a road (built without warrior escort? risky!) settling should go quick. Bronzeworking in 6 turns also. Two cities, big capital, safe with archery. Also, great tile development, 2 mines and pigs pastured! My second favorite save!
• rrau. Similar situation to chopstyx, but slightly behind in tech and expansion.
• Putchuco. Strong military and large capital! Unfortunately it has cost your expansion just a bit. You have teched Fishing before Bronzeworking, I think those techs should have been reversed. You could have got the settler out quicker and then got fishing while ClamFish would have been settled. Still a very safe game, you could have 7-8 bowmen in no time! (I wouldn't want to try to rush your empire )
• Pawelo. Tech order good, solid expansion, good defensive techs(archery coming out soon) and a strong second city (That worker you are building in Akkad should be chopped! ) I like this save a lot, so my vote goes here!

(Note so we don't forget: once we have voted the save, I think we should discuss the settling order of the cities. E.g. Green City is close and has copper, so it's a candidate, however the growth is very poor compared to other choices and we can get Bowmen for early barb defence instead. So we have to think carefully about the settling order. Also we need exporing galleys, and therefore sailing. And I just noticed that Moai Statues have only Sailing as prereq. . We should really factor them into our early plans.)

Also, once I get to my BtS computer (I'm not at home at the moment), I'll figure out a way to send Jamesds and Putchuco (and anyone else who's interested) the Paintshop Pro files for my dotmaps. I'm also working on a clipart pack for these dotmaps so that military invasion arrows etc. can be easily added to the dotmaps!

 

[Putchuco]

Here's my two cents:

Jamesds:Very good start. If anything at all I would caution on the city placement (as you pointed out), and maybe that you're a tad behind on Tech (not sure where that actually came from).

frob2900: Also good start, but if I might point out the city placement for Akkad could've yielded more: you have no floodplain in the initial cross, and the cities will overlap. Very good tech choices, maybe the best of us.

Zetetic Apparat: Nothing I could see wrong with your start, I would've only mined one hill before building the farm, it yields more in my opinion. Or was your focus more on growth through food and heavy whipping? I'm going to go ahead and give this save my vote.

chopstyx: Almost the same start as me: late Settler, except for the Bowmen. Good tech choices. I'm trying to understand how you figured out that we were on an island, with your start I would've thought land could easily continue in the north and the south-west.

Me: A quite unusual start for me, popped a hut for tech and NO money yet! Inserted some Bowmen in my building plans and was able to time them good. Made me happy, since I won't be in panic for a change when the first Axemen knock on my doors. frob is totally right, I should've tech'd BW before Fishing, there was no direct need for Fishing. No big harm yet I hope, since we need Fishing/Sailing next.

pawelo: Very good start, good tech choices, I'm only struggling with the placement of the 2nd city, I would've wanted it on a spot where we can grow it QUICKLY, like the floodplains. Time will tell


I was generally impressed at your thoughts (was that frob and Zetetic?) on aggressive whipping and chopping. I usually go easy there, since I want to grow fast in population. Maybe something I should keep in mind.


I hope nobody is offended if I continue with my save in parallel. I do not do this to make my start appear better or something but solely to see if my approach could've been better. The first 40 turns might not really tell yet where I went wrong.


Another thought: since we wanted to make this a BtS-specific training SG, should we focus on some BtS features as we go? I think we're going mainly with vanilla Civ features so far. I must admit this was actually the reason why I went with Bowmen. They're the UU and I tend to really roleplay my Leaders.
Thoughts?

 

[Putchuco]

Also, once I get to my BtS computer (I'm not at home at the moment), I'll figure out a way to send Jamesds and Putchuco (and anyone else who's interested) the Paintshop Pro files for my dotmaps. I'm also working on a clipart pack for these dotmaps so that military invasion arrows etc. can be easily added to the dotmaps!

Can't wait, great job on this.
I'm an obsessive dotmap addict and you're about to feed my addiction...

 

[LeeT911]

After thinking about it, I went ahead and played the start anyway, just to see how I do. It won't matter if it doesn't count.


I founded on the spot after moving the warrior for a look. My first build was a warrior, because I always start with a warrior/scout, after that a worker a size 2.

The worker started a pasture of course, then moved to chop a forest for a quicker settler. Farmed the chopped grassland tile afterwards for food that can be used to work the hills (to be mined)

I got 81 gold from the hut visible at start, and another two huts gave me XP. Hence the Combat3 warrior, and Woodsman2 warrior.

Akkad founded in 2400 BC (turn 40). This is where I would have placed the city if I were playing. On the lake, pigs in range, deer a little later, some hills for good production.

Order of techs researched: Wheel (start), Agriculture (start), Animal Husbandry, Mining, Bronze Working, Mysticism, Hunting (in 2 turns), Archery (next)

Second worker in production to get Akkad developing faster. I'm thinking of getting a barracks next while Babylon grows one more, then building a settler (with warrior escort) for the clams/fish/copper to the north. Then it's onto a few bowmen because my defense is paper thin at the moment.

I just realized I forgot to revolt to slavery after Bronze Working was discovered, so the whip potential is there, but there will be a turn of anarchy. I would probably hold off until the Babylon was size four, and then revolt so I could whip the settler.

After playing it myself, I realize that the floodplain area doesn't appeal to me right off the bat because I tend to prioritize resources first when settling, and there are only spices there, which aren't available until Calendar. I would guess there's iron in those hills, but that's pure speculation at this point. This is why I would send my next settler up to the resources on the peninsula.

From my scouting, it's fairly obvious China is on a different landmass, although our own island hasn't been completely mapped yet.

I have to go now, so I can't look at everyone else's save, but I I'll be back in a few hours.

 

[pawelo]

(Note so we don't forget: once we have voted the save, I think we should discuss the settling order of the cities. E.g. Green City is close and has copper, so it's a candidate, however the growth is very poor compared to other choices and we can get Bowmen for early barb defence instead. So we have to think carefully about the settling order. Also we need exporing galleys, and therefore sailing. And I just noticed that Moai Statues have only Sailing as prereq. . We should really factor them into our early plans.)

Well, if we go along with mine or zettetic's save, I though about starting the axe-machine asap settling south, and going west for floodplains/naval base with the third/fourth one.
Moai is a must - in the Floodplain city or Babylon, and I would go for Colossus. We will have copper hooked pretty soon, and Babylon has some serious production potential. I propose to include it in our plans - some GP will surely help in the future.

And I wouldn't chop the worker - we only have one forest in the first circle, and we need it to chop the monument, so that we can get those pigs sooner than later ( happy whipping will be going on here ).

Hey, nice developpement too Lee. I like your growth and techs, and your second city is pretty well placed.

 

[Jamesds]

Yes Lee, that is a nice second city placement for the two resources! Well, hopefully Zetetic can add to the vote (chopstyx is off for the weekend remember), and Lee, you can too if you have time to open our saves. Sorry yours won't count this round, it's just it would be a rushed decision especially since you haven't posted your save yet.

And I wouldn't chop the worker - we only have one forest in the first circle, and we need it to chop the monument, so that we can get those pigs sooner than later ( happy whipping will be going on here ).

Yes, but on the other hand, if you chop the worker it can get to work improving the ground whilst the moument starts. The extra production and growth gained from the worker's improvements might make it quicker in the long run. If we continue, I might be inclined to do it this way - it would be interesting to see how it compares with your tactic.

 

[LeeT911]

Yes Lee, that is a nice second city placement for the two resources! Well, hopefully Zetetic can add to the vote (chopstyx is off for the weekend remember), and Lee, you can too if you have time to open our saves. Sorry yours won't count this round, it's just it would be a rushed decision especially since you haven't posted your save yet.

Heh, I knew I forgot something. I'll go look at the other saves now.

 

[frob2900]

@Putchuco&Jamesds:

Here's the dotmap files! Civ Fanatics has a max size of 300kb for .zip files, so the bottom layer (the map background) is attached separately as a .jpg file. To recreate the dotmap, just load both into Paintshop or GIMP and copy then .jpg, then paste it into the bottom layer (labelled "Background") and move it until it matches.

The file has 13 layers, one background, one for each city, one for text and one for the location of Pawelo's city dots (the red ones).

The file bfcs.zip contains a psp file with BFC figures that you can paste into any layer to add a new BFC. To adjust their color without changing the intensity, just use the "Adjust Hue" function of the art program.

If you have any questions on various aspects of the map, feel free to ask

(I'm also making a bunch of clipart such as arrows for military invasions etc. that can be added to the various layers )

 

[Jamesds]

@Putchuco&Jamesds:

Here's the dotmap files! Civ Fanatics has a max size of 300kb for .zip files, so the bottom layer (the map background) is attached separately as a .jpg file. To recreate the dotmap, just load both into Paintshop or GIMP and copy then .jpg, then paste it into the bottom layer (labelled "Background") and move it until it matches.

The file has 13 layers, one background, one for each city, one for text and one for the location of Pawelo's city dots (the red ones).

The file bfcs.zip contains a psp file with BFC figures that you can paste into any layer to add a new BFC. To adjust their color without changing the intensity, just use the "Adjust Hue" function of the art program.

If you have any questions on various aspects of the map, feel free to ask

(I'm also making a bunch of clipart such as arrows for military invasions etc. that can be added to the various layers )

That's excellent - thanks frob! As for the clipart, that's a great idea - can't wait to see it! Now I only hope the GIMP can open this...

Now for the votes, as I said 2000 hours GMT should be the close of the votes.

So far there are 4 votes in: 2 for pawelo, 1 for Jamesds, 1 for Zetetic Apparat. The help given to each player above is excellent, and if you haven't written it yet, I advise you to - it does help you to take a critical view of a situation and thus helps you improve. Pawelo leads in the votes, so we shall continue with Pawelo's game.

The save can be found in Post #78. Download it and play to Turn 80, and no further . Also, download and install Solver's Unofficial Patch which I have uploaded to my server, so we all use the same version. Do this even if you already downloaded it. Download here

Frob2900 mentioned further discussion about placement of cities before we build many more. What do you all think? I think that the floodplain city is going to be valuable, but ClamFish city really catches my eye. These two should be next, IMO, but maybe with ClamFish first (capital can build a Work Boat and help the city grow so it can build a further work boat.

So, enjoy playing the second round, and we will have them in before Tuesday 21st August (chopstyx, when you get back, try for Tuesday if Monday isn't possible).

Has anyone learned anything yet? I know I have...several things actually .

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

I vote for Pawelo. My only criticism is that I'm not convinced that Hunting should have been his last tech choice.

As far as self-criticism goes: I shouldn't have built the Barracks, just as others shouldn't have researched Archery so enthusiastically (see how I turned that around? ). I stand by Mysticism, I need to see cities border popping...

Apologies for slowness and terseness; I spent 3 hours yesterday retrieving my dead cat from the side of dual-carriageway and burying it and combined with other stuff I was kind of out of it.

(frob, those are cool ideas.)

Ninja edit: Oops...

 

[frob2900]

Apologies for slowness and terseness; I spent 3 hours yesterday retrieving my dead cat from the side of dual-carriageway and burying it and combined with other stuff I was kind of out of it.

Sorry to hear about your cat

 

[LeeT911]

Some comparison/comments about the other saves, and then my conclusions at the end.

Spoiler :

pawelo

MIL
2 Warriors, 1 Scout
Barracks in capital

TECH
Lacks Mysticism to expand borders at Akkad
Archery in 6 (11 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
1 pasture, 2 mines (no road), road started towards Akkad
Revolted to Slavery

PRODUCTION
Babylon: Settler (6)
Akkad: Worker (12)

Seems to be the leading candidate. I don't like Akkad's placement that much because the pigs are not in the initial radius, and the city is not built on fresh water.


chopstyx

MIL
1 Warrior
Barracks in capital

TECH
Lacks Bronze Working
Bronze Working in 6 (10 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
1 pasture, 2 mines (no road), road started towards floodplains
Only one city, but larger (size 4)

PRODUCTION
Babylon: Settler (1)

Only one city, but with the road and Settler coming next turn, shouldn't make much difference. Also the capital here is larger, but I'm not sure about the second city going near the floodplains/spices. No resources there before Calendar. I'm always hesitant about that.


Putchuco

MIL
2 Bowmen (!), 1 Warrior
Barracks in capital

TECH
Lacks Bronze Working
Bronze Working in 4 (11 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
Only one city, but larger (size 4)
1 pasture, 1 mine, no roads whatsoever

PRODUCTION
Babylon; Settler (8)

Heavy on the military which could be useful, but it's probably not necessary this early on because animals will not enter your borders. This military focus has delayed the second city.


frob2900

MIL
3 Warriors

TECH
Lacks Mysticism to expand borders at Akkad
No research towards Hunting-Archery
Pottery in 1 (12 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
1 pasture, no roads at all
2 chops performed
Revolted to Slavery

PRODUCTION
Babylon: Worker (3)
Akkad: Warrior (8)


I like the spot where Akkad is built, as I think that's the best with the land available, but I would not have made that my second city as it lacks resources, and the floodplains are outside the initial radius. I think it can be a good spot later on, with a chop to get a fast monument.


Zetetic Apparat

MIL
1 Warrior, 1 Scout
Barracks in capital

TECH
Lacks research into Hunting-Archery
Masonry in 4 (11 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
1 pasture, 1 farm (no road)
Only one city

PRODUCTION
Babylon: Settler (1)

Have Bronze Working but not revolted yet. I would probably wait for the Settler before revolting anyways, so no trouble there I guess. There's only one city here though, and it's smaller than the other two games with only one city. Also, although the Settler is ready next turn, no roads and forests all around means a slightly delayed second city. I'm not sure the Masonry research is justified, as there is no stone/marble nearby, but if you're aiming for a religion, I guess it's the way to go.


Jamesds

MIL
2 Warriors

TECH
Lacks Mysticism, Bronze Working
Bronze Working in 4 (11 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
1 pasture, 1 farm (no road), 1 half-built mine
Only one city, but the Settler is out in the field, and Akkad will be settled next turn

PRODUCTION
Babylon: Bowman (4)

The second city site isn't so bad, there's even copper that you can't see yet (Bronze Working soon), but to grow, the city will need a monument (no Mysticism yet) and a Work Boat (no Fishing yet). I do agree though, that it makes a good choke and canal for our future boats. And to be fair, you haven't scouted up north yet, so you don't know that there's not much land up there.


rrau

MIL
2 Warriors (was 3 but apparently one got eaten by a bear)

TECH
Lacks Mysticism, Bronze Working, Hunting-Archery
Has Writing (!)
Bronze Working in 6 (10 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
1 pasture, 2 mines (no roads), roads started in forests
Only one city, but the settler is built and ready to go this turn.

PRODUCTION
Babylon: Warrior (2)

I wouldn't wait for the warrior to escort the settler. I like to send the warrior out first and have the settler catch up with its two moves. Interesting tech choices though. Early Writing will give us access to libraries since we may be able to skimp on military early because of isolation.


LeeT911

MIL
3 Warriors

TECH
Lacks Archery
Hunting in 2 (12 beakers/turn)

INFRASTRUCTURE
1 pasture, 1 farm
1 chop performed

PRODUCTION
Babylon: Worker (4)
Akkad: Monument (30)

Akkad is working the pig tile right now, it could move over to the forest and build the monument faster, but I think I'm inclined to let it grow while I build a road towards it, and later do a chop or whip (haven't revolted yet) to get the monument. I felt my defenses were thin before, but after looking at the other games, only Putchuco has a better military. Although a few of you put up barracks while I did not.

How do you guys feel about roads? I noticed people building mines without putting a road afterwards. I guess I'm still in C3C mode where I put roads pretty much everywhere. I hate improving a tile and not putting a road there. Although I do put the road after I've already build the improvement first. Is this a thing of the past? Should I just be building roads for the trade network and nothing else?

Also, I didn't keep track of who build a worker first (at size 1), but is it that those who did have more improved tiles (or chops, because frob2900 has only the pasture, but I can see he did two chops)?

I like my own game best , but I did read the spoiler info first, so it's probably not fair. In that case, I will vote for pawelo's game.

Which brings up another question about "cheating" in the future. Let's say we vote to continue with pawelo's game. Then I research Iron Working while Jamesds does not. After that round of voting, we decide to continue with Jamesds' save. He did not research Iron Working, but everyone will know where the iron is because they saw my game... What happens then?

This could potentially happen now, if we continue with Putchuco's game for instance. He hasn't researched Bronze Working, but we all know where the copper is.

 

[frob2900]

This could potentially happen now, if we continue with Putchuco's game for instance. He hasn't researched Bronze Working, but we all know where the copper is.

Yep. This is a problem! Maybe we should institute a rule that the resource revealing techs must be researched in the same game turn by everyone.

They are only:

• Bronze Working
• Horseback Riding
• Iron Working
• Steam Power
• Scientific Method
• Fission (or did uranium already appear with Sci.Meth.?)

so it won't cramp anyones style too much.

 

[Jamesds]

I vote for Pawelo. My only criticism is that I'm not convinced that Hunting should have been his last tech choice.

As far as self-criticism goes: I shouldn't have built the Barracks, just as others shouldn't have researched Archery so enthusiastically (see how I turned that around? ). I stand by Mysticism, I need to see cities border popping...

Apologies for slowness and terseness; I spent 3 hours yesterday retrieving my dead cat from the side of dual-carriageway and burying it and combined with other stuff I was kind of out of it.

(frob, those are cool ideas.)

Ninja edit: Oops...

Aw, I'm sorry to hear about your cat, Zetetic .

And Archery maybe wasn't a great choice, your tech choice was strong.

I love creative civs, simple because the borders pop in 5 turns - we'll remember that for the next SG.

 

[Jamesds]

Some comparison/comments about the other saves, and then my conclusions at the end.

How do you guys feel about roads? I noticed people building mines without putting a road afterwards. I guess I'm still in C3C mode where I put roads pretty much everywhere. I hate improving a tile and not putting a road there. Although I do put the road after I've already build the improvement first. Is this a thing of the past? Should I just be building roads for the trade network and nothing else?

Nice analysis of the games, Lee. About your roads, I have lately tried not to network things (like mines/farms) that I don't need to, but I was used to doing it for the commerce bonus in Civ1/2/3 - it has become a habit. Now, I only build a road if it will help me move quicker (say to get a settler out) or it will connect a resource or city. Later in the game, roads are great for the movement bonus.

Which brings up another question about "cheating" in the future. Let's say we vote to continue with pawelo's game. Then I research Iron Working while Jamesds does not. After that round of voting, we decide to continue with Jamesds' save. He did not research Iron Working, but everyone will know where the iron is because they saw my game... What happens then?

This could potentially happen now, if we continue with Putchuco's game for instance. He hasn't researched Bronze Working, but we all know where the copper is.

Yes, I guess we can't help that - unless, having read frob's advice above, that we agree to research certain techs at the same time. It is hard to tell what we should research in this second round, but I would say we should all aim for....one of Iron Working or Horseback Riding. Horses are good for a food/prod/commerce bonus, whilst Iron is mainly production. We don't need either too soon, since we are currently safe. But I would say we research Iron Working in this second round (see where it is, for our Swordsman if we go to war). Would anyone second that?

Fission (or did uranium already appear with Sci.Meth.?)

Isn't it Physics? Hmm...

 

[LeeT911]

I'm sorry about the cat too...

About Archery, I don't think it's such a bad choice. Bowmen with strength 3 and 50% against melee means 4.5 against an Axeman on flat ground. Put the Bowman on a defensive tile or in a city and he can probably beat the Axeman. Bowmen are cheaper than Axemen. And while we won't go in with an army of Bowmen (although it might be fun), we can start building them earlier, even before we get the copper connected. And we need to defend our cities too. We may be alone on this island, but the real barbs will be coming soon.

EDIT: I just thought of something else. Hammurabi is Aggressive (units start with Combat I), which means we can give Shock promotions to Bowmen if they come out of a city with Barracks. With this they can probably go toe to toe with an Axeman at much less the cost.

 

[frob2900]

Isn't it Physics? Hmm...

Right you are, Physics