Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game

[Jamesds]

I'm currently doing software quality assurance in an internet security firm. Only started a few months ago though.

And don't worry too much about university Jamesds, I played Civ a whole lot more while I was in school than I do now.

And, somewhat more game related, is it that bad that I didn't follow the dotmap? My floodplain city is not in the same place...

No, it doesn't matter - we are all playing our own games here. The idea is that what we do differently, we discuss and see who's ideas are the best. You are free to do whatever you want in your game, as you would if it was your own game. I haven't put my cities in the same place either, that's why I posted my own dotmap to show what I thought worked.

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

My game was poor, I wasn't paying enough attention, really. I shouldn't have wasted so much tech time on Iron Working at the start. It meant I was largely producing spurious units in my cities instead of doing something useful.

Slightly more useful comparison tables are on the way for this round.

 

[chopstyx]

Here's my save from turn 80, apologies for going 1 turn too far...

View attachment Chopstyx_BC-0875.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Jamesds]

Thanks for posting your saves Zetetic Apparat and chopstyx. Zetetic, it will be hard for us to evaluate your performance unless you write a summary of what you did. You've got a lot of work to do with the stats thingy though, so I won't pressure you . Hey, if you need any help gathering stats, I can help extract them for you.

EDIT:

Spoiler :

Seeing there is now iron near the sheep city, I am now going to put my city beneath the originally planned location to get the iron as well as the fish and sheep. I will still function as a ship building city, though not as near to the Chinese mainland...but with the extra production, it's great!

 

[Putchuco]

A little off-topic, but are we really playing a 'succession' game?

Isn't this more like a 'scramble' or 'Best Ball'... ?

The golfers among you will know what I mean.

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

I like to think of it as retroactive democracy.

Spoiler :

I founded Clam/Fish and the Sheep city. My Iron Working (poor) choice means that border popping at Akkad has not yet occured. Warriors were overproduced, again due to poor tech choice and not altering this while still possible. Basically, I did bad by researching a tech I shouldn't have researched at that point.

I'll go finish up the available stats now.

 

[Jamesds]

A little off-topic, but are we really playing a 'succession' game?

Isn't this more like a 'scramble' or 'Best Ball'... ?

The golfers among you will know what I mean.

I'm not a golfer, but I'll answer your question. To the best of my knowledge (I'd appreciate correction should I be mistaken) this is a succession game. There are no definite rules that all SG players must abide by, but, I know that we should all be playing the same game . Since I've only played one other SG, I really don't know what else an SG encompasses, and no one writes about what an SG is - they expect you to know...

The reason we continue from one voted game is to help comparisons between the games (like Zetetic is doing at the moment), so we can see what everyone does in the same situation. As long as you are learning something, then this is worthwhile!

EDIT:

Since we are comparing demographics quite a lot here, lets see what they actually mean: The Inner Workings of the Demographics Screen.

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

Spoiler Turn ~80 Stats :

I haven't bothered highlighting as much now, as it becomes more subjective..

Edit: Just noticed one of the averages is wrong, because frob's stats aren't in. Not a massive problem. Edit2:And it's fixed now anyway.

I'm aware that totals of produce per turn isn't a great idea. However, I think it's better to leave things as how they were being run.

 

[LeeT911]

Good job Zetetic.

frob hasn't posted yet, so I'll use the spoiler.

Spoiler :

Chopstyx still has the biggest military, no surprise there. And I felt that my finances were stretched, it looks like I turned out to be the richest one, although Putchuco has a higher research rate.

Interesting that I have the lowest approval rate, seeing as I complained about the lack of luxuries. However, it's not that much lower, and I'm not sure what kind of whipping the others did. I'm pretty sure I only whipped one Ax though, so did you guys spare your citizens?

I'm the only one rushing to Monarchy and leaving Iron Working behind. Swords would be nice, but I don't think the war is set in stone yet, and if we're not taking cities, I'm not sure Iron Working is all that necessary at this point.

Also, no one went for the religion. Although, as stated, frob hasn't posted yet, so fingers crossed. Anyway, it's too bad I didn't think about it till I was writing my report, it would've been good to try.

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

Just to be clear now. I'm going to have to pull out on the 2nd (school). If people post the info I ask for, I'll happily compile it into a table. I would be pulling out on the 24th-26th but BioShock probably won't run on my X800...

 

[Putchuco]

OK, pls don't hate me for it, I couldn't stand my stupid mistakes on the 2nd run. Made that way too hasty, guess I was too anxious too continue.

I just sat back and redid the steps the way I wanted it to go down and tried to THINK along the lines... ... for a change.

Not sure what the 'rules' are, but if you think this shouldn't be included I totally understand. I helped me at least to see my false moves in the heat of the moment. And for that it served it's purpose.

This is not about replaying and re-loading until I finally get it right.

So here it goes:

Spoiler :

First of all I was quite certain that with out tech level and production level at Babylon we can pull off Stonehenge!
I switched to Mysticism, and put off on Archery, as that's not immediately necessary.

A 'slap in the face' is our standings in the Culture department:

Spoiler :

2160BC: Mysticism
I didn't go for Monuments in the cities, but put all my eggs in one basket: Stonehenge in Babylon. Had both Workers chop in Babylon for it.

1960BC: Archery

1720BC: Pottery

Also:

Spoiler :

YES, got it!
And you can also see here that I send the 2nd Settler out to found 'FloodPlains'. BTW, I changed the names of the cities to those we use in the dotmaps, I think that makes it easier than the game names, especially if we decide to settle in different orders.

Qin is asking for Open Borders, and I think that can't hurt.
We might use this to chart his lands pretty soon...

Spoiler :

1360BC: Both PigCity and FloodPlains pop their borders, thx to Stonehenge.

Spoiler :

Here's a view at 875BC, turn 80:

Spoiler :

I realize now that I went slow on creating more workers, only at two right now. Went after Granaries, a Work Boat and a Library instead.
Workers will need to be next.

Spoiler :

Would be interesting to see how this compares.
But again, I did this to overcome a couple of hasty mistakes and to really see if I learned something already, nothing else. If it's not 'in' I'm fine.

 

[Putchuco]

Just to be clear now. I'm going to have to pull out on the 2nd (school). If people post the info I ask for, I'll happily compile it into a table. I would be pulling out on the 24th-26th but BioShock probably won't run on my X800...

Zetetic, I can help if you don't mind.

That would also give me a chance to compare my own little learning experiments.

 

[Putchuco]

I'm not a golfer, but I'll answer your question. To the best of my knowledge (I'd appreciate correction should I be mistaken) this is a succession game. There are no definite rules that all SG players must abide by, but, I know that we should all be playing the same game . Since I've only played one other SG, I really don't know what else an SG encompasses, and no one writes about what an SG is - they expect you to know...

The reason we continue from one voted game is to help comparisons between the games (like Zetetic is doing at the moment), so we can see what everyone does in the same situation. As long as you are learning something, then this is worthwhile!

Don't get me wrong I'm not criticizing the format, I'm loving it!

I was just poking fun at the name...
I followed Sisutil and the gang in some of the famous Succession games, where they took turns, hence the name.
I love playing 'best ball' in golf when I have the time, and I think this is a good format here too, because we're all playing.
I should be more THINKING, but, hey, the devil in me keeps calling 'just...one...more...turn...',
and it's so easy to just get to the next instead of thinking of the current one...

 

[pawelo]

OK, pls don't hate me for it, I couldn't stand my stupid mistakes on the 2nd run. Made that way too hasty, guess I was too anxious too continue.

I just sat back and redid the steps the way I wanted it to go down and tried to THINK along the lines... ... for a change.

Not sure what the 'rules' are, but if you think this shouldn't be included I totally understand. I helped me at least to see my false moves in the heat of the moment. And for that it served it's purpose.

This is not about replaying and re-loading until I finally get it right.

Hey,

As for me, it's not a problem to include it, especially knowing how the game went

Let's have everyone choose to include it or not. Regarding the general play rules, I followed the reasonable rules - no save/load, no replaying etc. But I know what you mean - myself, I made two great mistakes while I was playing and I think I could have done much better than my try for this turnset . But hey, it's all about this - learn from one's and each other's mistakes. So, as long as this is respected, there is no problem for me to "forget" your first turnset and include this one.

 

[pawelo]

Good job Zetetic.

frob hasn't posted yet, so I'll use the spoiler.

Spoiler :

Interesting that I have the lowest approval rate, seeing as I complained about the lack of luxuries. However, it's not that much lower, and I'm not sure what kind of whipping the others did. I'm pretty sure I only whipped one Ax though, so did you guys spare your citizens?

I'm the only one rushing to Monarchy and leaving Iron Working behind. Swords would be nice, but I don't think the war is set in stone yet, and if we're not taking cities, I'm not sure Iron Working is all that necessary at this point.

Too bad frob's a little bit late, but we can discuss some things in spoilers.

Spoiler :

I haven't understood my approval rate neither. I have like 4-5 times ( I can't remember exactly - settler, granary, two galleys and maybe something else ) and I have the best one. I think there is something about the size of cities. Getting heavy my cities never had time to grow in size, so I have never had a surplus of angry above happy in none of my cities.

As for the invasion, I would do it asap. China seems pretty weak, and with our limited life space, we need more land. And a fisherman's paradise like Beijing is a nice place to expand. Hopefully, they are on a continent, so we will expand easily after they are gone.
Also, we have Bronze and Iron - plus three ( in most games ) serious production cities to pump some strong melee invasion before Math. They must have only Archers ( maybe an ax or a spear too ) by now in their cities, so it's urgent. Once they get Cho-Ku's, it's too late. We'll have to wait for rifles and cavs.

 

[Jamesds]

Well, this is the set date for continuing the discussion, and I have PMed frob to warn him that the discussion has started (and also to get his save in when he can).

So, there's a lot to talk about.

Here's a couple of topics we should cover before going to the next round, which will hopefully be this week (I'm thinking Friday for round 3, but we'll see). There's probably more...

1. City placement for cities 3 & 4
2. Technology choices
3. How to go about a war with China

OK, pls don't hate me for it, I couldn't stand my stupid mistakes on the 2nd run. Made that way too hasty, guess I was too anxious too continue.

I just sat back and redid the steps the way I wanted it to go down and tried to THINK along the lines... ... for a change.

Not sure what the 'rules' are, but if you think this shouldn't be included I totally understand. I helped me at least to see my false moves in the heat of the moment. And for that it served it's purpose.

This is not about replaying and re-loading until I finally get it right.

Actually, I thought you did alright on the first run. You had a similar setting to me, and similar techs and stuff, but oneself is one's best critic. At first, the competitive nature in me thought "that's not fair", because you've had a second chance which neither of us had. But, my more thoughtful side realised that if you could achieve better in your second run, then that means more learning and discussion for us all! Also, I see you have had to make some compromises in your second game to get what you wanted (not as many workers, for example). Anyway, I think it fair that if we include your second try, we also include your first, since they actually follow different strategies, and I'm not yet convinced that your first try was that bad .

Just to be clear now. I'm going to have to pull out on the 2nd (school). If people post the info I ask for, I'll happily compile it into a table. I would be pulling out on the 24th-26th but BioShock probably won't run on my X800...

OK, Zetetic - thanks for telling us in advance. You've been a great help in the data collation, and have set the standard for us all to use in the future of this SG - that's a cool table! You can probably take part in a couple more rounds yet if you still want to take part.

Zetetic, I can help if you don't mind.

That would also give me a chance to compare my own little learning experiments.

That's great, Putchuco. I wouldn't mind helping too, so we'll work that out nearer the time.

Don't get me wrong I'm not criticizing the format, I'm loving it!

I was just poking fun at the name...
I followed Sisutil and the gang in some of the famous Succession games, where they took turns, hence the name.
I love playing 'best ball' in golf when I have the time, and I think this is a good format here too, because we're all playing.
I should be more THINKING, but, hey, the devil in me keeps calling 'just...one...more...turn...',
and it's so easy to just get to the next instead of thinking of the current one...

I know what you mean - that is the nature of Civ4, "Just..One...More...Turn"!! For once, in this game, I actually am making myself think. I actually took 5 minutes to decide on my city position for Floodplain city, which I never usually do, but it helped me think in more depth about the location and good/bad points of different locations. But what's important is that you play your own game. We can discuss things here, but what is discussed might not suit your strategy. So play how you would usually play, and we can see how that would compare.

 

[LeeT911]

I know what you mean - that is the nature of Civ4, "Just..One...More...Turn"!! For once, in this game, I actually am making myself think. I actually took 5 minutes to decide on my city position for Floodplain city, which I never usually do, but it helped me think in more depth about the location and good/bad points of different locations. But what's important is that you play your own game. We can discuss things here, but what is discussed might not suit your strategy. So play how you would usually play, and we can see how that would compare.

Which is a good point. This game is making me think a lot more, possibly because I know it's not just me playing it. If I play my own game, I don't pay too much attention to dotmaps or think very much about long term tech goals, I kind of just do what I please and take it from there.

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

I'll stick up Putchuco's 2nd go in the table soon. Its a good idea to replay for the best of all possible worlds, but I'm not sure it should be eligible for continued play.

 

[frob2900]

Sorry I'm late! Just played my turns.

Spoiler :

Expand, expand, expand was the name of the game:

Managed to get 5 cities and a decent amount of workers. Next step cottage spam.

Techwise just got a bunch of infrastructure techs such as mysticism, sailing, masonry. (Masonry because I'm going mathematics next for Gardens, but also I hope to grab the Great Lighthouse.. I played my turns in a hurry so I hope it's not already grabbed by the AI and I missed it )

All that unhappiness is due to slaving, and due to the fact that the Floodplain city was guarded by a scout for the longest time. I'm putting a spearmen there now though

 

[LeeT911]

I haven't understood my approval rate neither. I have like 4-5 times ( I can't remember exactly - settler, granary, two galleys and maybe something else ) and I have the best one. I think there is something about the size of cities. Getting heavy my cities never had time to grow in size, so I have never had a surplus of angry above happy in none of my cities.

As for the invasion, I would do it asap. China seems pretty weak, and with our limited life space, we need more land. And a fisherman's paradise like Beijing is a nice place to expand. Hopefully, they are on a continent, so we will expand easily after they are gone.
Also, we have Bronze and Iron - plus three ( in most games ) serious production cities to pump some strong melee invasion before Math. They must have only Archers ( maybe an ax or a spear too ) by now in their cities, so it's urgent. Once they get Cho-Ku's, it's too late. We'll have to wait for rifles and cavs.

I see pawelo is the slave driver among us. I guess it also explains the low population.

I disagree about Iron Working though. I would much rather have Catapults and Axes than Swords and Axes. Granted, I'm the one researching Monarchy, so I have neither, but I'm leaning towards Writing->Math next in my game.

Another thought I've had in my game, is that up by the clams and fish, I will build the Moai statues. There's a lot of food, and I can let it grow even beyond happiness limits to whip. There's also the fact that Hereditary Rule will be possible in the not too distant future, and I can stockpile the military there to suppress dissent.