Research Request(s)

[Thunderbrd]

It seems to me that the resource, Carcass, was intended not to mean a random husk of roadkill or something you found out on the plains that the Lions left behind.

Rather, it is meant to be a fresh kill, even if made at a slaughterhouse. From there it can mean other things, like

• bones
  • may be used as early weaponry (before stone?)
  • source of food (bone marrow)
  • possible bonus for certain buildings, such as the magic shop, festival and such
• meat
  • source of food
  • easier taming of animals
• fat
  • source of food
  • used for soap
• hide -> same as current hide product
• antlers/fur/feathers(and so on, depending on the carcass source)
  • each will should have its unique cultural tribal wear
  • feathers for pillow/cushions?
  • antler for various horns
• taxidermy for expression and anatomy training.

This seemed to be the best posted list that encompassed other things.

We discussed its removal and breaking it down to its individual parts, but I'm thinking there's a few things, like Crows and Taxidermists, that seem to fit more if you can simply say you have Carcasses. Furthermore, it would be easier to then take this bonus to be a prerequisite for the buildings that produce things from the Carcasses, such as leather worker and bone collectors and so on. I GUESS we can also say you can convert to fresh meat as well as long as we're clear we aren't talking about carrion carcasses.

Another thing I noticed is that we're looking at Carcasses as being an indicator bonus. Some buildings require it not because they need carcasses but because the presence of the carcass bonus means there are sources of large animals present. This can be useful as well.

Carcasses are such a wide application and indicator that nothing is dedicated specifically to producing them (though you might really need them when you don't have them and it can be a real inhibitor - I've experienced it in play myself.) Thus they are not really something to assign a zoning category to. We could call them a 'byproduct', but I think of them more as a 'General' category, which means they are there to communicate a large scale multi-layered concept in one statement that can be useful for determining existence or non-existence of a lot of varieties of things.

For the purposes of where I'm headed here, the buildings that convert Carcasses into other bonuses are actually much more interesting. We'll get to those soon.

Thoughts? Did I summarize everything that's been stated or did I miss any good points as to what we can do with this resource?

 

[Noriad2]

It seems to me that the resource, Carcass, was intended not to mean a random husk of roadkill or something you found out on the plains that the Lions left behind.

If you read up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butcher
A dead animal ready to be cut into pieces by a butcher is called a carcass more than once there.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you read up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butcher
A dead animal ready to be cut into pieces by a butcher is called a carcass more than once there.

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but it tends to need some context which we don't really clarify. I don't see a way to clarify it unfortunately. So it's just going to remain a natural, non-addressable imperfection that really isn't an imperfection at all if you don't tend to assume the meaning of the term from watching nature shows

 

[Morlark]

While we're on this topic, one thing that always seemed a bit odd to me is that the various Herd buildings produce Carcass, but they also produce an animal resource that is prerequisite for the corresponding Hunting Camp, which also produces Carcass. The redundancy of that resource significantly lowers the attractiveness/utility of building the Hunting Camp. And most of the Herd buildings are for non-domesticated animals, so it doesn't really make sense to think that you could walk out into the herd and just get a carcass.

I would suggest that the Carcass bonus should be removed from the Herd buildings and instead the animal Hunting Camps and Farms should be the primary early-game source of Carcass. (Incidentally, the above reasoning could also be applied to other non-animal resources generated by Herds, e.g. Ivory.)

There are a few Herd buildings that do not generate an animal resource, but this wouldn't be a large problem to rectify, e.g. by merging those into a similar herd building instead.

 

[Thunderbrd]

While we're on this topic, one thing that always seemed a bit odd to me is that the various Herd buildings produce Carcass, but they also produce an animal resource that is prerequisite for the corresponding Hunting Camp, which also produces Carcass. The redundancy of that resource significantly lowers the attractiveness/utility of building the Hunting Camp. And most of the Herd buildings are for non-domesticated animals, so it doesn't really make sense to think that you could walk out into the herd and just get a carcass.

I would suggest that the Carcass bonus should be removed from the Herd buildings and instead the animal Hunting Camps and Farms should be the primary early-game source of Carcass. (Incidentally, the above reasoning could also be applied to other non-animal resources generated by Herds, e.g. Ivory.)

There are a few Herd buildings that do not generate an animal resource, but this wouldn't be a large problem to rectify, e.g. by merging those into a similar herd building instead.

Or by adding another animal resource that can have applications elsewhere.

GREAT observation. I'd, yes, require the hunting camp or farm then. I wonder, though, if such a change would make some buildings unlock later than they should.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Alrighty...

EGGS

@raxo2222 You've been very helpful at getting which buildings use and make the resources but it's a lot more helpful if its in a text list form rather than screenshots out of the pedia. Just voicing preference. Either way, your help has been invaluable.

I recently added the Raw Vicinity prerequisite which is a vicinity bonus prereq for buildings that does NOT require a route or improvement. I've debugged it a few times having spotted some errors and hopefully it's working now as designed, so the Egg Thief should be on and working. I've not been able to confirm this so if someone would be willing to help me with confirmation that would be awesome.

Boy here's one that a lot of things require when you're cooking! Let's try to list off all the sorts of buildings that would require or if not outright require, would be more effective due to having access to them. And society uses eggs for more than cooking if I'm not mistaken. What other industries benefit? What else can we bring up about this useful resource?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There are two trade or wonder versions of eggs - decorated Emu Eggs and Faberge Eggs. I don't think either actually requires eggs.

 

[Toffer90]

Many vaccines for infectious diseases are produced in fertile chicken eggs. The basis of this technology was the discovery in 1931 by Alice Miles Woodruff and Ernest William Goodpasture at Vanderbilt University that the rickettsia and viruses that cause a variety of diseases will grow in chicken embryos. This enabled the development of vaccines against influenza, chicken pox, smallpox, yellow fever, typhus, Rocky mountain spotted fever and other diseases.
- Wikipedia

Bakery

 

[raxo2222]

There are 9 Egg producers and 3 Egg consumers.

Spoiler Producers :

Chicken Coop - BUILDING_CHICKEN_COOP
Duck Farm - BUILDING_DUCK
Goose Farm - BUILDING_GOOSE_FARM
Nest Thief - BUILDING_NEST_THIEF
Sea Turtle Egg Gatherer - BUILDING_SEATURTLE_EGG_GATHERER
Turkey Farm - BUILDING_TURKEY_FARM
Herd - Poultry (Flock) - BUILDING_POULTRY_HERD
Herd - Ratite (Flock) - BUILDING_RATITE_HERD
Synthetic Meat Bioreactor - BUILDING_SYNTHETIC_MEAT_BIOREACTOR

Spoiler Consumers :

Diner - BUILDING_DINER
Omega Child Crew - BUILDING_OMEGACREW
Pancake House - BUILDING_PANCAKE_HOUSE

GameText XML files were scattered in main building game text, subdued animals and hydro game text. One even was in Pepper module (can guess its synthetic bioreactor)

 

[JosEPh_II]

Glad Omega Child is Only an Or requirement!

 

[raxo2222]

Glad Omega Child is Only an Or requirement!

This building has nice stat boost - if you have baskets, flint, pottery, stone tools and tools, then you will get +15% bonus to production.
Nice thing to have, if you have enough stacked diseases to get your production reduced by 15%
Also you can feed kids with kava only, and with right equipment they can fight productivity reductions from properties

 

[JosEPh_II]

But you will actually lose it before it's Obsolete Tech of Humanism by Civic changes.

 

[raxo2222]

But you will actually lose it before it's Obsolete Tech of Humanism by Civic changes.

I know, still nice booster for early game though

 

[Thunderbrd]

But you will actually lose it before it's Obsolete Tech of Humanism by Civic changes.

I don't ever change away from a civic that allows it until then. No civic reachable up to the obsoletion point gives enough benefit to be worth it to lose that building. This makes most of the civics that compete in that category completely useless because you have access to a lot better once you do obsolete the Omega Child Crew.

It's one of the most imbalanced aspects of the mod because the AI would never think it needs to construct the hut that is required for it until they suffer unhealth problems. And when you've had a hard go of hunting and can't get any herds yet, you have to wait a long time for eggs from a duck. This makes the difference between having it and not having it a little too severe. As a part of this project, I believe we should be able to make the building a lot more reasonable, even if we do want to keep it as a hidden diamond in the rough.


Also, can anyone explain WHY the omega child crew requires meat or egg? Is it saying that your kids can't be made to work unless you can give them solid protein? A dubious claim imo.

 

[tmv]

Also, can anyone explain WHY the omega child crew requires meat or egg? Is it saying that your kids can't be made to work unless you can give them solid protein? A dubious claim imo.

Perhaps it would be better to have the O.C.C replaced by some disease autobuild (children usually suffer more from diseases). Diphteria might be a good choice, that seems to have been a terrible disease for children (and still is, in poor countries).

 

[raxo2222]

Also, can anyone explain WHY the omega child crew requires meat or egg? Is it saying that your kids can't be made to work unless you can give them solid protein? A dubious claim imo.

I think it is more of energy dense food or something like that.

 

[JohnnyCamel]

Maybe it is the other way : children had to spend all their time looking for food (for themselves but also for the rest of tribe) instead of working on other tasks.
Once the tribe gained access to high energy food (meat, eggs, fish), this was not required anymore.

 

[Noriad2]

Just wondering what an "omega child" is? I tried to google it but found no satisfactory answer. Is it an orphan?

 

[JohnnyCamel]

Just wondering what an "omega child" is? I tried to google it but found no satisfactory answer. Is it an orphan?

The term "Omega child" seems to describe a neglected / abused / bullied child. It doesn't seem to be unique to humans - group of animals will also have "omega" members, along with "alpha" and "beta" individuals.
So this building simulates the systematic exploitation of some members of the tribe by the community?

 

[Tajo]

So this building simulates the systematic exploitation of some members of the tribe by the community?

I thought it does more like the opposite by offering the omega children some meaningful way to contribute to the society? Production increase that it gives is certainly welcome in the early game.