Returning Civs - Elimination Thread

[Jkchart]

Assyria - 24
Austria - 6
Babylon - 16 (15+1) All in all it's just another brick in the wall...er Walls of Babylon. What can I say? Gotta try and keep it aliiiiiiiiiiive.
Byzantium - 17
Carthage - 12
Denmark - 6 (9-3) While I would love to see queen Margrethe I and some sort of revamp of the city state union mechanics like Civ V Austria, but in this leader, this just feels unlikely and like there's very little design room for a third Scandinavian country. Plus, it's in a very crowded area already an unlikely to appear as anything other than a city state in this particular version.
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 22
Portugal - 26
Shoshone - 17
Siam - 22
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 17
Venice - 6

 

[Kimiimaro]

Assyria - 24
Austria - 6
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 17
Carthage - 12-3=9 - Carthage is already in the game as part of Phoenicia...
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 22
Portugal - 26
Shoshone - 17
Siam - 22
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 17
Venice - 6+1=7 - Methinks the Venetians could live a bit longer. At least longer than Denmark, Carthage, Songhai... I'd like to see them, either as part of Italy or their own Civ.

 

[679x]

Assyria - 24
Austria - 6
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 17
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 23 (22 + 1) - I think Morocco would be an awesome choice. Rock a few Kasbahs with one of many good leader choices, while simultaneously filling a TSL location that is otherwise rather untouched. Part of a continent that has a wealth of unique cultures, yet is tough to fully represent in Civ as a result, but adding this one is a good step to covering all regions of Africa - and the best choice, in my opinion, for another historical Islamic nation.
Portugal - 26
Shoshone - 17
Siam - 19 (22 - 3) - Well, Siam would be nice and all, but I think the devs intended for Khmer to be a 'replacement' for Siam, maybe to mix things up a bit. They seem to be doing that in Civ VI. I don't really have much against Siam in particular but because Khmer exists, I'm gonna downvote this one. It'd start to get cramped anyway. Like another user said, though, Vietnam would be a cooler option for the general region.
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 17
Venice - 7

 

[AntSou]

Assyria - 24
Austria - 3 (6-3) It's a coin toss for me between Denmark and Austria next to go.
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 17
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 23
Portugal - 27 (26 +1) Coastal Trade civs are my favourite.
Shoshone - 17
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 17
Venice - 7

 

[The Kingmaker]

Assyria - 24
Austria - 3-3=0 Auf wiedersehen, Österreich. Es tut mir leid.
Babylon - 16+1=17 Another blue-glazed brick for the Ishtar Gate!
Byzantium - 17
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 23
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 17
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 17
Venice - 7

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14 (17 - 3) - Doesn't fit VI's thesis. Also I missed yesterday so the same number of points leveled with double the conviction.
Byzantium - 17
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24 (23 + 1) - I'd actually prefer this over Portugal as far as Iberian civs go. Yes the Mandekalu cavalry and Barbary Corsairs complicate design, but not nearly so much as how Portuguese design space is limited by Spain and the Netherlands. And it's culturally far and away more interesting with all the Berber influence.
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 17
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 17
Venice - 7

 

[Naktis]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14
Byzantium - 18 (17+1) Time for Constantinople to RISE...and FALL maybe even by my hand
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 17
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14 (17-3). One of the worst Civ 5 civs for me.
Venice - 7

 

[alphaman21]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14
Byzantium - 19 (18+1) Too historically significant to be left out.
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 14 (17-3) I'd rather have a different Native civ.
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 7

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14
Byzantium - 19
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 24+1=25. Africa needs more love.
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 14
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 7-3=4. I would rather have Italy as a whole than a one city Civ.

 

[SagarRathore]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14
Byzantium-19-3=16 Sorry Greeks fans you have enough
Carthage - 9
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 14
Siam-19+1=20 Thailand is important and I bet most of Thais won't agree with khmer representing them
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 4

 

[Krajzen]

@PhoenicianGold - seriously this is the hill you gonna die on, you'd rather add Carthage, Denmark and Songhai to the game rather than Babylon, one of the greatest ancient civilizations? I mean, I myself am the only other person in this thread who downvoted it (once) because how similar Babylon is to Sumer, but then I saw your voting patterns and it seems you are either just spiteful at this point or utterly incoherent (if you have personal vendetta versus Babylon for being to close to Sumer but not against aforementioned three which are even more redundant).

not to mention I'd rather have Sumer and Babylon in the same game rather than more than one North American insignificant native tribe

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 19
Carthage - 9-3=6
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 14
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 4+1=5

Phoenicia in civ6 is essentially "Carthage 2.0 - Carthage but with some more focus for Phoenician people as a whole". It should be first civ to go after Awful Blobs. It's ability is named 'Founder of Carthage', its second ability is named after Sicilian wars of Carthage, its leader is the founder of Carthage, all its bonuses would perfectly fit Carthaginian civ, really its main Phoenician element is half of its city list differing from this of civ5.

I am really surprised how there is a real chance Denmark and Venice may go before Carthage 2.0. Denmark is of course insane given we already have Sweden and Norway but it's at least an actual separate nation, historical power, peoples, language and hell even it could have very different playstyle than those two. Really, the only reason it explicitely shouldn't return to civ6 is presence of not one but two other Scandinavian states at once. Venice is, of course, not redundant at all in civ6 context, but it seems people downvote it because of its supposed "city state" nature. But you could quite easily make "normal" civ out of Venice - this is its largest territorial extent:

Spoiler :

The main good argument for the exclusion of Venice is, IMO, how it'd be much better if we finally got medieval/renaissance/modern Italian civ. But we don't know if Firaxis is gonna add it so...

 

[AmazonQueen]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 19+1=20. A must have civ for me.
Carthage - 6-3=3. Although they are an old favourite of mine there is really no need for them with Phoenicia led by the legendary founder of Carthage in the game.
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 14
Siam - 19
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 5

 

[Xandinho]

SagarRathore's votes were skipped, I corrected them.

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14 Corrected. This had 14 points before Krajzen's vote
Byzantium - 18 (17+1) Corrected. Very important to have so few points.
Carthage - 3
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11 (14-3) Of the three Native American civis here, this is the one that least interests me.
Siam - 20 Corrected.
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 5

 

[AntSou]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14
Byzantium - 19 (18+1) I'm in support of a Byzantine civ led by Justinian (Theodora is fine too) with a heavy focus on civics to emphasise his laws and codes. Some synergy with religion is fine. What I do not want is for it to be yet again heavily focused on religion like it was in Civ 5. It's ability in Civ 5 was nice, but I'd rather they focused on other aspects for once. E.g. Access to unique policy cards, or something of that nature.
Carthage - 3 I'll let someone else deal the final blow
Denmark - 6
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 23
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11
Siam - 20
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 2 (5-3) You could make a normal civ out of Venice, but it would lose much of the flavour for me. I oppose Venice because if Venice is in the game, it will occupy design and geographical space for other civs. There's two options in the region which I prefer: Medici's Florence and Garibaldi's Italy. Italy is by far the most logical choice for a 19th century civ which focus on Romanticism and Nationalism rather than Industrialisation. I don't much care about 20th century Italy in a civ game when there's so much better stuff to work with in the previous century.
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Edit: When I say "by far the most logical choice for a 19th century civ which focus on Romanticism and Nationalism rather than Industrialisation", I mean in Europe. There's plenty of stuff elsewhere, particularly South America.

 

[DefiantMars]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 14
Byzantium - 19
Carthage - 3
Denmark - 3 (6 - 3) With Sweden and especially Norway (which brings Vikings) already present in Civ6, I don’t believe Denmark should return, at least not with the focus it had in Civ 5.
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 24 (23 + 1) I’m going to vote for the Iroquois again to help fill out North America some more. I think it would be nice if one of the Native American civs could make it towards the end of the elimination.
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11
Siam - 20
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 2

 

[The Kingmaker]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 15 (14 + 1) Two can play this game. Babylon does fit Civ’s thesis.
Byzantium - 19
Carthage - 3
Denmark - 0 (3 - 3) Three Scandinavian civs when we only have one from Mesopotamia? Nope.
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 24
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11
Siam - 20
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 2

 

[returnofbabylon]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 16 (15 + 1) Not my first choice on the list, but the most underrated based on current scores
Byzantium - 19
Carthage - 0 (3 - 3) I think it's pretty clear the devs meant for Phoenicia to replace Carthage
Ethiopia - 25
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 24
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11
Siam - 20
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 2

 

[alphaman21]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 19
Ethiopia - 26 (25+1) Historically one of the strongest empires in the history of Africa.
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 24
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11
Siam - 20
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14
Venice - 0 (2-3) ELIMINATED. Least impressive of the remaining civs in this list.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 13 (16 - 3) - doesn't fit VI's thesis.
Byzantium - 19
Ethiopia - 26
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 24
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 25 (24 + 1) - Yusuf has a really cool portrait somewhere online.
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11
Siam - 20
Sioux - 22
Songhai - 14

 

[TahamiTsunami]

Its a shame that I couldn't downvote Carthage more since I definitely agree with how unneeded it is. Additionally, as much as I'd like to see Maria Theresa lead Austria or have Margaret lead a Kalmar Union focused Denmark, I agree that they shouldn't be as much of a priority as some of the other civs here.

Assyria - 24
Babylon - 13
Byzantium - 19
Ethiopia - 26
Hittites - 25
Iroquois - 24
Mayan - 28
Morocco - 25
Portugal - 27
Shoshone - 11 - 3 = 8 There are many native NA groups like those in the NE, PNW, Puebloan SW, and SE who I'd prefer to have before the Shoshone.
Siam - 20
Sioux - 22 + 1 = 23 While I don't find them as impressive as the Iroquois or even as much as some potential new NA civs, I do think the Sioux could have potential to be a fun nomadic civ if done with some intereting mechanics.
Songhai - 14