RFC:Antiquity

[jessiecat]

I don't have any problem with RFCA of course, and would like to do some work on it, after RFCE is done. My point is: Why should RFCA have a subforum and not RFCE? (which has been actually releasing versions for quite a time )

Spoiler :

I personally didn't view it as one, and don't want it to become one. Just wanted to make some humor

I agree of course. RFCA, with all due respect, is still just an idea in the minds of some people so far, while RFCE is developing fast and will soon release the beta version. We have asked Rhye several times for a separate sub-forum but he doesn't seem to support it. Same with Rhye's new wiki where we're still listed as "proposed" instead of "In development", so we're not allowed to post our info in it. Perhaps we've offended our glorious leader in some way, but I sincerely hope not.

 

[ZachScape]

Now, I didn't know that. I thought that RFCE just sprung up as one thread after another, way before anyone would think of it getting this big, thus not creating a sub forum. I was way off.
I was thinking that maybe this would become big on the scale of RFCE and create a sub forum in advance. (Well not at this point, but after this thread had many different topics)
I'm playing RFCE right now as a matter of fact. I'm on my fourth game, playing as Germany.

And I hope we didn't offend The Father. I can't take any more plagues.

 

[kravixon]

Quick update if anyone cares to see how the map looks so far. It's rather simple, but you've got to start somewhere.

I'm uploading it as a worldbuilder save. Just run it in BTS and play as Julius Caesar (cause I know where he starts), you'll start off about where athens will be.

I made a grid with mountains, so a lot of the finished landscape is scarred by weird mountain lines still. Obviously, resources, locations, terrain types and such is not what we're looking at, but rather how the shapes of Greece, N Africa and the Near East look.

Greece is enlarged a bit so that it isn't really to scale, but I like it that way. Also, any feedback on which Greek islands to add would be appreciated.

 

[kravixon]

I think I'll add Kefallinia to the West of the Peloponnese, and maybe add Naxos or Andros near where I put Milos. I think the big, islandy thing (name?) North of Athens should be more detached. I tried to just attach it to Attica, and it worked until I looked back at a map of Greece

 

[Verily]

That would be Euboea, and it's nearly as big as Crete.

 

[kravixon]

Alright, I've fixed up Greece so that there are more islands, Euboea looks a lot better, and Peloponnesia isn't quite as large.

Any feedback from this new file?

 

[micbic]

There is no Corfu island. Being myself Greek, I would suggest some coastline changes. Should I post the file, or just report the suggested changes?

 

[onedreamer]

I would add Etruscans at least to the civ list. Maybe split Celts in Gauls, Germans and Illyrians if the map is large enough to include them all. A Ionian civ also wouldn't hurt. There are many mediterranean maps around, not just the ones in TAM.

 

[kravixon]

micbic- I was unable to make Corfu without it being stuck to either mainland Greece or Italy, if I recall correctly. I've gotten a bit further on the map and am working on it now, but Greece is unchanged. If you could post the file, I'll see what you did and probably change the same tiles that you did. Eitherway, it's a lot easier to just show it then to explain it.

onedreamer- I think I can agree with separate Gauls and Germans (Ostrogoths maybe?), but I personally don't think the Etruscans should be added. There isn't as much known about them, they only controlled part of Italy, and their capital would be maybe 3 tiles from Rome. As for Illyria, I only know where the region is. In general though, I'm for keeping a lower number of civs, as more civs mean larger loading times and time between turns.

 

[JediClemente]

In my opinion, very minor "civs" like Illyrians, Etruscans or Iberians should be nothing more than independents. The indy concept is a great asset of RFC and could be greatly improved by events (such as Crusades in RFCE).

It's better to concentrate on the big ones, give Greece at least 2, and have a moreless accurate game. Something between TAM and what RFRE was in Civ3.

Of course I understand other people will prefer a RFC approach, all for the gameplay, but I think given a bigger map and a proper time frame as this, it can be an opportunity for a full "Antiquity" experience, which in my opinion, being able to play as someone as the Illyrians doesn't provide.

I'd even go as far as making all "barbarians" non-playable, at least a minor celtic civ (same as RFC), with another germanic and scythian spawning later; their wars regulated by events.

A jewish civ is a more complicate matter.

 

[ZachScape]

We should start with the main ones, obviously, but given the opportunity, I would like to see Etruria at least. The only thing that bothers me with RFCE is that it is too historically accurate, not enough diversification. Of coarse we shouldn't jump into anything, but when in Rome... (pun intended). As for information, I love looking that stuff up.

I'll check the map out now.

Edit: Just looked at the map, looks good so far. But only two suggestions:
-We should trim Anatolia to make room for some more Greek islands.
-We should put the map on a slant and cut down greatly on the Sahara (This would completely redo the map, but I don't want wasted space in the South West.

 

[kravixon]

Here's the map with all the basic landmasses completed. Let me know if the Iberian peninsula looks distorted.

With micbic's advice/changes, Greece will look better. Italy looks very plain to me, but I don't think it's because the shape is messed up, but rather the fact that it's really long and currently has no hills or mountains and is all grassland.

-ZachScape: post #35 suggested the slant as well. As is, we keep the cardinal directions lined up, and I don't think that empty desert slows down the game.

 

[ZachScape]

Not that it slows down the game, but it would be used more effectively. It could allow a larger Mediterranean and less Northern Europe if we want to show the lower British Isles.

I think it would be easier to start with a completely watermap. You could then give yourself satellites so you can see the whole map. Then toggle bare map. And then, using printed out map of the Med (angled) for reference, you can draw it out first (using the strategy layer). Then, using world builder, just fill in the lines.
I'm trying that out now for myself.

 

[micbic]

Anyhow an improved version of the map. Changes in Greece mostly, and additions of Ibiza, Malta and Jersey islands

 

[kravixon]

I think the Mediterranean is pretty large as it is, considering the amount of space compared to civs. But see what you can do.

micbic- Great changes. Just for kicks, I added some cities with 100 culture each to see how much room was available for cities in Greece. There was plenty for both Athens and Sparta, to the point where it might even be plausible to add in Thessaloniki as a minor civ/independent so that there is something between Attica and Macedonia

 

[ZachScape]

I think we should make the map wider next, mostly because of Spain. I like the fact that Spain looks squeezed, but there is little room for the Balearic Islands. I'm also annoying myself about the slant, but I can not stand the vast amount of European land above the Black Sea or the huge, barren Sahara. A slant would remove both of those, but still leaving room for the British Isles and making more space for game-play.

 

[Verily]

I think the Mediterranean is pretty large as it is, considering the amount of space compared to civs. But see what you can do.

micbic- Great changes. Just for kicks, I added some cities with 100 culture each to see how much room was available for cities in Greece. There was plenty for both Athens and Sparta, to the point where it might even be plausible to add in Thessaloniki as a minor civ/independent so that there is something between Attica and Macedonia

Thessaloniki wasn't founded until shortly before Alexander the Great and wasn't relevant until the late Roman period. It would be inappropriate for an Antiquity mod.

If you want a city in Greece, Corinth is the obvious independent, or Argos or Thebes. If there isn't enough room for any of those, Pella would be the choice if the Macedonians aren't in the mod, or maybe Potidaea if they are.

 

[kravixon]

Thessaloniki wasn't founded until shortly before Alexander the Great and wasn't relevant until the late Roman period. It would be inappropriate for an Antiquity mod.

If you want a city in Greece, Corinth is the obvious independent, or Argos or Thebes. If there isn't enough room for any of those, Pella would be the choice if the Macedonians aren't in the mod, or maybe Potidaea if they are.

Macedon would be included. Corinth would be nice but Athens are Sparta are close as it is. Is there anything of note west/northwest of Thebes?

 

[Verily]

Macedon would be included. Corinth would be nice but Athens are Sparta are close as it is. Is there anything of note west/northwest of Thebes?

Delphi is on the northern coast of the Gulf of Corinth, you could include it. Larissa would be another possibility, but it wasn't all that significant.

 

[BurnEmDown]

krav I saw your map, it's good but feels a little cramped, know what I mean? Too squeezed.
Also the next time you change it don't forget to add http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Sea