RFC:Antiquity

[mike6426]

I'm thinking Maccabee and Zealot for the Hebrew UU's. The only question is, what would they replace?
The Hebrews, if appearance is hardcoded, should appear in the 12th century BCE, probably in what is now lower Israel. Maybe the likelihood of the reappearance of the Hebrew nation could be heightened due to frequent conquering of the land and subsequent defeat of the capturer and a movement back to the land.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I would have to vote against hebrews being included.
I don't have anything against the jews but they havent realy played any that importmant rolle in ancient history.
Unlike Cartage, Grece, Rome or Egipt, they newer had an empire and the only time they existed as a nation was under vasalage from rome.
I think that the correct way to include them would be to make all cities with judeism in the middle east more likely to revolt and cause instability.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Judea may have not been a great empire and maybe it have much influence for the mod but it was a nation occupying a decent enough territory to include. Also I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard figuring out UU's, UB's, UP's and leaders for Judea.
Zach, I liked some of your ideas from post #11 but the part with Indo-European migrations I wouldn't really like seeing in this mod. Aside from that everything sounds cool.

 

[ZachScape]

But they did have an extraordinary cultural impact on the area. I guess you could relate them to Khemer in RFC, not many people thought they were important enough but they did add flavor.
But you are right, we should first see what the most important civilizations would be and the community's preference (For me, I would rather have fun and variation rather than historical accuracy and significance. So a civilization for Etruria is a must for me.) before we start making civilizations official.

Thanks BED. I didn't really think the migrations was that doable anyway, lol. But thanks for commenting. BTW, I did a little more with that world map from RFC is Dead, but it doesn't seem that the community would want that as much as we want Antiquity.

 

[Cethegus]

The idea sounds good. I'd help, but I'm afraid I don't have the skills or the time to be useful.

Has anyone thought up any UP's for the upcoming civs? I'm guessing Athens is going to inherit the Greek UP from RFC but what about Sparta? Giving them a military-related UP would be only appropriate, but considering they already have stronger UU's than their neighbors, would it lead to the Spartans overrunning the lesser-endowed Athens in a swift moment?

Also to the person making a comment on Sparta and Athens having to colonize... they did just that historically. No unified kingdom in Greece until later times.

 

[kravixon]

Lots of unit/history stuff[/SPOILER]

Excellent post ZachScape! I had forgotten that the Hittites used iron, and truly know little to nothing about Babylon and Assyria's military. Gameplay-wise, good points about Phoenicia and especially the various wall types.

In regards to Greece, I always knew that Greece wasn't unified, but after taking ancient history my first semester I realized that the city states fighting against eachother and setting up colonies was the norm. With Athens, Sparta, and Macedonia present, Greece will be weakened by conflict like it really was, and if one of the three becomes powerful enough to take over the others, then they'd be mighty indeed.

As for Israel, I'm not sure if it should be a playable nation or not. Israel/Judah were important and were in control of their own destiny, but they were repeatedly taken over and vassalized and exiled, so they're in a unique position. The Etruscans, in my mind at least, are a little bit less significant, and should be represented by 1 or 2 independent cities in Italy.

I'm just trying to throw out a bunch of do-able ideas to try to keep this idea afloat for now. When I get back on Sunday night I'll start to fiddle with my map again

 

[mike6426]

That was why I was wondering if it was possible to alter the likelihood of a nation reappearing; Israel should have a higher chance as they were exiled and came back repeatedly. As for a UB, A yeshiva would work well, replacing a science building (probably library), adding a priest and some more culture. And for a UP, it is too late to think of that, I need sleep...

 

[micbic]

@Cethegus: I think it was more an OCC. Not all Greek cities colonized. The most important colonizers were, IIRC (part of ancient Greek history doing this year at school) Corinth and Ephesus (which itself was a colony at the first wave). In civ terms, Sparta was a military force, which built 20 Spearmen and covered the whole Peloponnesians, while Athens had built cottages around it and had DPs with another 20 coastal cities (The Delian Alliance).

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yeshiva doesn't really fit with ancient Israel\Judea. It's more of a post-exile Jewish culture thing.
A UB for this civ should be determined at a later time. My current dilemma regarding Israel right now is leaderheads. It's obvious either David or Solomon should be leaders, but not both, so the dilemma is which one, and who else should we add (another king from a later time).

 

[PPQ_Purple]

If you have to include them, you should skip the fictional leaders and add King Herod.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great

 

[BurnEmDown]

Ah of course, how could I forget Herod .
BTW David and Solomon might have (grammar error?) existed, even if most of the bible is just a bunch of fairy tales. And even if they didn't, there are some BTS leaders that didn't exist 100%.
Edit: Reading just a bit about Herod gives me an idea for a Judean wonder: Masada. which could have some sort of a defensive bonus, or something having to do with revolts (Herod reinforced it into a fort where we could flee in times of revolts).

 

[Arkaeyn]

Is anyone keeping track of this? Project managing, so to speak?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Ah of course, how could I forget Herod .
BTW David and Solomon might have (grammar error?) existed, even if most of the bible is just a bunch of fairy tales. And even if they didn't, there are some BTS leaders that didn't exist 100%.
Edit: Reading just a bit about Herod gives me an idea for a Judean wonder: Masada. which could have some sort of a defensive bonus, or something having to do with revolts (Herod reinforced it into a fort where we could flee in times of revolts).

Not to bad, and without proof we should still skip the 2 mithical leaders and use the good one. As for the Masada how about this:
UB: Masada
Replaces: Forbiden Palace
Requires: The same tech needed for the Great Wall (forgot witch)
Ability: Acts as palace, city can newer revolt into a barbarian civ as long as your empire does not colapse, stability bonus in surounding cities. (possibly to much on the bonus part)

 

[ZachScape]

Is anyone keeping track of this? Project managing, so to speak?

I think Kravixon is developing a map and after that things will start rolling. He said once the RFCE Beta is released the modders from that project will work on the next, this.

But we should make a sub forum because all those Europe threads in ModMods is a mess.

 

[BurnEmDown]

There is only one Masada in the world, let alone Israel, why should it be a UB? It fits more to be a wonder of some kind, with a kind of unique story behind it (tho I've heard there were other groups of people who suicided rather than become roman slaves).
For the UB, something regarding religion could be more appropriate.

 

[kravixon]

I'm back at school so I'll start with the map again. Some of the people from RFCE said that they'd be willing to help(on the first page), but it would have to be later on.

I'm really not much of a mapper. I'm able to make maps to use as scenarios for myself in vanilla bts, and that's about the extent of it for me. I'm trying to learn though If not the project will just have to wait until June.

 

[ZachScape]

Oops, guess I don't.
I was thinking of the ME map by -sr, but wasn't workable. It is a shame he quit cause he could of helped.
But for the map, we should make it distorted.
-Make Arabia and east of smaller
-Squeeze everything above Alps
-Minimize Saharra Desert
-Make the Italian Peninsula a little bigger and the Greek Island chain bigger.

 

[micbic]

But we should make a sub forum

For one thread

because all those Europe threads in ModMods is a mess.

Which are about 10 threads and phps more

once the RFCE Beta is released the modders from that project will work on the next, this.

I don't think any such thing was mentioned. Phps it could be a side project, but I think much work on it will be done after the final release not the beta one

 

[ZachScape]

1. If it becomes as big as RFCE, Yes. We could put it in modmods instead of having many threads floating around.
2. The modmods used to be one different comp after the next. But now, there are RFCE threads that solely discuss Flags, Papal states, and more little things. Not saying that those are not important, yet would be better sooted if they had their own folder.
3. Did you not read the post before mine? Kravixon also said that in post 35.

I don't see that it would be that big of a deal to make a subfolder. It could just tidy the place up a bit. Of coarse I know that everyone from RFCE will flock to this, but one person could make a difference.

Spoiler :

I see this turning into a flame thing. I see your side, but we don't need to waste posts on a meaningless conversation.

Spoiler :

+ I don't wan't to be shown up on the internet. =p

 

[micbic]

I don't have any problem with RFCA of course, and would like to do some work on it, after RFCE is done. My point is: Why should RFCA have a subforum and not RFCE? (which has been actually releasing versions for quite a time )

Spoiler :

I personally didn't view it as one, and don't want it to become one. Just wanted to make some humor