RFC:Antiquity
- Thread starter kravixon
- Start date
JediClemente
Prince
Elam? I think in that area having just Persia is enough. Before it appears, indys (which would strengthen it greatly at spawn). In modern eastern Iran (out of Persia's spawn area) and beyond, indys/barbarians.
Bactrians if much.
I don't see much point to playable Numidians (barbarians/natives) or Thracians.
Arabians aren't that interesting. But I'd support having space for Nubia, even if just making it non-playable. Egypt is too short right now. I'll add tiles to the map south, most of the added plots will be desert anyway.
In any case, remember the original idea was to make things small and fast. There are a lot of civs already!
Bactrians if much.
I don't see much point to playable Numidians (barbarians/natives) or Thracians.
Arabians aren't that interesting. But I'd support having space for Nubia, even if just making it non-playable. Egypt is too short right now. I'll add tiles to the map south, most of the added plots will be desert anyway.
In any case, remember the original idea was to make things small and fast. There are a lot of civs already!
-This is just my opinion:
If we have room, I say, "Why not?" The thing I like least in RFCE is the lack of overlap. There are hardly any flips. The only flips I've seen is Calais and Prag (althout I think RFCE is still a great game). In RFC, it's hard not to find overlap. Especially for the Roman Empire. It gets torn to shreds. Same with NA east coast, Mesopotamia, and Mongolia. We should have civs practically on top of eachother. It'll provide more dynamic scenarios and more challenging gameplay.
If we have room, I say, "Why not?" The thing I like least in RFCE is the lack of overlap. There are hardly any flips. The only flips I've seen is Calais and Prag (althout I think RFCE is still a great game). In RFC, it's hard not to find overlap. Especially for the Roman Empire. It gets torn to shreds. Same with NA east coast, Mesopotamia, and Mongolia. We should have civs practically on top of eachother. It'll provide more dynamic scenarios and more challenging gameplay.
JediClemente
Prince
You're confusing spawn area, "historical expansion" area and core area. The latter can never overlap with each other (that applies for any mod based on RFC). Elam and Persia occupy indeed the same core area.
And apart from that, what purpose does Elam serve in the game? None that indys can't provide.
And apart from that, what purpose does Elam serve in the game? None that indys can't provide.
To fill in historically filled in places. It was an extremely early nation that could be one of the starters. I imagine that without Elam and Etruria that the only areas have a lot of Rhye's and Fall are Sumer, Tunisia, and east Mediterranean. Hopefully we can put some dynamics in Italy, Anatolia, and southern Iran.
JediClemente
Prince
The main focus is supposed to be on the Middle East, Egypt, Persia and Greece.
Italy is also pretty big but I'd advise Romans to have a medium-late start (not before 500 BC) and favour intense greek colonisation in the south. Western Africa is pretty isolated.
So yes, the main part of the game is supposed to be played in those areas. It's Antiquity after all.
JediClemente
Prince
Recalling the list of civs and relating it to my latest map.
- Sure by now (by cultural group):
Mesopotamian: Babylon, Assyria, Hittites
"Greek": Athens, Sparta, Macedon, Romans
Semitic: Phoenicians, Hebrews, Carthaginians
Egypt
Persia (Achaemenids at least)
12 civs
- In discussion:
Sumer (I'm for it, enough space and turns since 3000 BC before it has real competition - which should destroy it, kinda equivalent to Babylon in RFC, quick game, shouldn't ever respawn)
Elam (against, prefer indys, same core area as Persia)
Indians (there's a lot of space in the Indus Valley for the 3000 BC civ there and it has meaning later also, weak civ ala Mali in RFC, high probability for respawn, caused by the high difficulty to control that area)
Minoans/Mycenae/Lydia/... (I still think Sparta shouldn't colonize the Mediterranean. That lives only Athens to the task. Another greek civ from out of the Peloponnese is needed)
Arabs (enough space for a "Yemen" civ, what romans called Arabia Felix. Similar to the Indian proposal)
Nubia (against because I don't see much point nor what to achieve with them, I prefer indys that can revolt)
Etruria (strongly against, already gave my opinion too much)
Bactrians (for me it has meaning from 320 BC onwards, the map is perfect for them)
Parthia (I prefer to mix it with Persia)
Celts (non playable minor civ please)
Germanics (if the game ends by 100-150 AD there's no point for a civ, just barbarians)
- Sure by now (by cultural group):
Mesopotamian: Babylon, Assyria, Hittites
"Greek": Athens, Sparta, Macedon, Romans
Semitic: Phoenicians, Hebrews, Carthaginians
Egypt
Persia (Achaemenids at least)
12 civs
- In discussion:
Sumer (I'm for it, enough space and turns since 3000 BC before it has real competition - which should destroy it, kinda equivalent to Babylon in RFC, quick game, shouldn't ever respawn)
Elam (against, prefer indys, same core area as Persia)
Indians (there's a lot of space in the Indus Valley for the 3000 BC civ there and it has meaning later also, weak civ ala Mali in RFC, high probability for respawn, caused by the high difficulty to control that area)
Minoans/Mycenae/Lydia/... (I still think Sparta shouldn't colonize the Mediterranean. That lives only Athens to the task. Another greek civ from out of the Peloponnese is needed)
Arabs (enough space for a "Yemen" civ, what romans called Arabia Felix. Similar to the Indian proposal)
Nubia (against because I don't see much point nor what to achieve with them, I prefer indys that can revolt)
Etruria (strongly against, already gave my opinion too much)
Bactrians (for me it has meaning from 320 BC onwards, the map is perfect for them)
Parthia (I prefer to mix it with Persia)
Celts (non playable minor civ please)
Germanics (if the game ends by 100-150 AD there's no point for a civ, just barbarians)
I don't know... Phoenician influence expanded all the way from mid Libya to Morroco and north to Spain. Greeks came to Marseilles. Besides, the major late game Mediterranean civilizations will be Rome and Carthage. The Mediterranean seems like it will be pretty intense.
Rome should start around 509 BC. I think most of us are thinking about the Roman Empire when it is really the Roman Republic that fits into this category. If not founded by Etruscans, Rome should be an independent by 753 BC. (Istarted typing this post before you posted your last)
Rome should start around 509 BC. I think most of us are thinking about the Roman Empire when it is really the Roman Republic that fits into this category. If not founded by Etruscans, Rome should be an independent by 753 BC. (Istarted typing this post before you posted your last)
JediClemente
Prince
Here's an idea for 18 civs + 1 barbarians (germanics, dacians, scythians, lybians and generic early tribes) + 1 natives (celts & numidians) + 2 independants = 22 total to have the full map.
(natives and barbarians exactly as in RFC)
The numbers indicate order for spawn.
The marked zones are core areas, neither spawn areas NOR historical limits.
I think the civs should be pretty obvious for everyone, except that 17 is bactrians and 18 parthians (the latter should predate persians as the supposed timetable until 100-150 AD doesn't allow sassanids).
* indicates areas which should at some set point become independent, no matter what (or cities pop up there if it's empty).
!! (not to be confused with 11 - hebrews) indicates areas which are supposed to be colonized by some civs, and if not done so (or razed) by a certain time should pop up as indy cities.
(natives and barbarians exactly as in RFC)
The numbers indicate order for spawn.
The marked zones are core areas, neither spawn areas NOR historical limits.
I think the civs should be pretty obvious for everyone, except that 17 is bactrians and 18 parthians (the latter should predate persians as the supposed timetable until 100-150 AD doesn't allow sassanids).
* indicates areas which should at some set point become independent, no matter what (or cities pop up there if it's empty).
!! (not to be confused with 11 - hebrews) indicates areas which are supposed to be colonized by some civs, and if not done so (or razed) by a certain time should pop up as indy cities.
Arkaeyn
King
I think 5, 6, and 7 are Medea, Lydia, and Yemen. I'd lean towards having Yemen being simply an independent Sana'a.
JediClemente
Prince
5 Assyria
6 Hittites
7 Sabaeans ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabaeans )
15 Armenia
The point for Sabaeans is, putting an independent city there will efectively block the pass for ships (as it's unlikely any AI will attack them from sea), but it's an important place nevertheless. They should be able to travel everywhere same as the dutch in RFC.
I think it doesn't matter if it's one civ more or one less, RFCE has more than those 22. Also the map is pretty crowded as it is.
6 Hittites
7 Sabaeans ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabaeans )
15 Armenia
The point for Sabaeans is, putting an independent city there will efectively block the pass for ships (as it's unlikely any AI will attack them from sea), but it's an important place nevertheless. They should be able to travel everywhere same as the dutch in RFC.
I think it doesn't matter if it's one civ more or one less, RFCE has more than those 22. Also the map is pretty crowded as it is.
Even though I hate to, I am double posting. I think this could be a cool new feature to add to RFCA that hasn't (at least for me) been seen before. We discussed it earlier but I just got around to it.
New Types of Walls
Top Left: Mud- downscale Y axis, maybe recoloring?
Top Right: Wooden
Bottom Left: I hope this can be added as a wonder. I remember reading about one king who bragged about his walls being so thick that two chariots could ride on top of it side-by-side. I'll try to find it, unless somebody finds it before me.
Bottom Right: Stone
Also, as for my Fort Idea, it could be implemented and be represented quite nicely by Walter Hawkwood's rips from Kohan II. Hopefully if not to fantasy-like, they could be implemented into our mod.
Forts- Human and Barbaric look nice
East Mediterranean- These buildings, especially the markets, is how I picture trading civilizations, like Phoenecia.
Mesopotamian- This one is a long shot, but maybe... We also have Unique City Styles instead. Maybe they are more appropriate.
New Types of Walls
Spoiler :
Top Left: Mud- downscale Y axis, maybe recoloring?
Top Right: Wooden
Bottom Left: I hope this can be added as a wonder. I remember reading about one king who bragged about his walls being so thick that two chariots could ride on top of it side-by-side. I'll try to find it, unless somebody finds it before me.
Bottom Right: Stone
Also, as for my Fort Idea, it could be implemented and be represented quite nicely by Walter Hawkwood's rips from Kohan II. Hopefully if not to fantasy-like, they could be implemented into our mod.
Forts- Human and Barbaric look nice
East Mediterranean- These buildings, especially the markets, is how I picture trading civilizations, like Phoenecia.
Mesopotamian- This one is a long shot, but maybe... We also have Unique City Styles instead. Maybe they are more appropriate.
JediClemente
Prince
Yes, but that would also encourage any AI to conquer it, which is ahistorical and weird. Also being that far from any other civ's core area, instability would revert it to indies.
I don't really see the problem for having a Sabaean civ. Would be difficult and possibly boring to play, yes. Exactly as Mali or Maya in RFC.
Yeah, but it would slow down the game on some computers. RFC and RFCE use AI war maps, which tell the AI where they should invade in case of war. We could set the value of Yemen to 0, and make sure the AI never invades.
Or we could make a deal. You get Yemen and and me and Arkaeyn get Etruria.
jk
Or we could make a deal. You get Yemen and and me and Arkaeyn get Etruria.
jkJediClemente
Prince
Warmaps don't affect barbarians nor natives (and I suspect neither indies, though I'm not sure). That's why you can see in RFCE Bulgarians take Kazan, or Spain conquer Riga, and the classical "anyone attacks Congo" in RFC.
Seriously, is that a big deal to include Sabaeans? The mod would still have far less civs than RFC, and I suggested some of them would never respawn after a set date (such as Sumer).
Seriously, is that a big deal to include Sabaeans? The mod would still have far less civs than RFC, and I suggested some of them would never respawn after a set date (such as Sumer).
Arkaeyn
King
Yeah, but it would slow down the game on some computers. RFC and RFCE use AI war maps, which tell the AI where they should invade in case of war. We could set the value of Yemen to 0, and make sure the AI never invades.
Or we could make a deal. You get Yemen and and me and Arkaeyn get Etruria.
Akkad's what I want!
...like I said... Etruria 
But isn't the Akkadian core the same as Sumerian? Dynamic Names and multiple UUs could mesh 'em.
And aren't Barbarians a civilization themself, or couldn't they be made one? I'm not sure how they work exactly, so I'm asking, but can't we also modify where they can/can't attack and also where the AI can/can't attack? Or we can make it so the cities there have stable populations above the city raise value?
But isn't the Akkadian core the same as Sumerian? Dynamic Names and multiple UUs could mesh 'em.
And aren't Barbarians a civilization themself, or couldn't they be made one? I'm not sure how they work exactly, so I'm asking, but can't we also modify where they can/can't attack and also where the AI can/can't attack? Or we can make it so the cities there have stable populations above the city raise value?
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