RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Chep]

Hey,

since I really don't like the whole barb-spawn-idea that much, as it helps players that have experience with the map over others (they know where and what kind of barbs spawn and can prepare accordingly)...
I wanted to know if there are any nice "builder-civs" that don't rely on barbs harassing them or them using their default wins against the barbs correctly?
Since 1.2 is not yet out and therefor France, Cordoba and Byzantium are still quite "barb-dependent" (these are the only ones I tried so far), I'd be open to suggestions. Because I really would want to like this mod.

I'd like something along the lines of japan in the "original" RFC...build, build, expand, take over the world

 

[gilgames]

Your idea is really nice, their F8 screen should be updated with a city counter, as Lithuania has or as poland too (aint sure which has or not )

Having no barbs would be too easy...

 

[rfcfanatic]

I recently updated to the most recent SVN version and tried to play as France on Monarch. I think that the removal of free barb battle wins in the way it was done was a little bit too harsh. Here's the reason why:

and

and

The first two screenshots are about two consequent defensive battles from the same game. Even worse, that barb bastard who won the battle with 4.4% odds, didn't take any damage. Complete RNG nonsense

It's very difficult to plan a strategy when it's all about getting lucky (actually, not getting unlucky) in the first battles involving the starting units. Either France has to receive more starting units or the free wins system should be reintroduced in a way that early battles with winning odds above 75% are guaranteed wins.

 

[rfcfanatic]

OK, this one beats them all:

When a barb Axeman attacks an Archer fortified in a hill city across a river and wins, even the slightest hope of building a strategy is lost

 

[ezzlar]

Maybe the barbs get free wins nowdays? ;-)

 

[gilgames]

ezzlar got the point of the week
Barbs got 5 free win vs player! That somehow sad fo pump out 5 skirmisher

 

[rfcfanatic]

That somehow sad fo pump out 5 skirmisher

What's the thing with skirmishers?

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I wanted to know if there are any nice "builder-civs" that don't rely on barbs harassing them or them using their default wins against the barbs correctly?

Venezia and Genoa.

Burgundy too, but they can be played as a militaristic or a builder civ - it depends on you.

 

[gilgames]

Venezia and Genoa.

Burgundy too, but they can be played as a militaristic or a builder civ - it depends on you.

even Spain is a builder after taking the peninsula! or portugal doesnt have to deal with barb nor Dutch

@ rfcfan skiirmisher is the cheapest unit, less lose vs barbs

 

[Chep]

Venezia and Genoa.

Burgundy too, but they can be played as a militaristic or a builder civ - it depends on you.

thanks a lot, I chose Venezia (on easy, though) and so far have quite some fun with them.

However I now have a few more questions:
1. How do the crusades work? Specifically: I was chosen to lead a Crusade and conquered Jerusalem. Do I need to do anything more to get a reward? As I conquered Constantinople on the same turn I got my Golden Age, but I got only 1, usually if you get more than 1 they stack (16 turns instead of 8). Do I get to keep all units that don't immediately return after the conquest? What do you recommend doing with the city? Keep? Gift to the Arabs?
After a couple of turns they revolted and declared their independence (with my ~10 units still inside -.-) and the Pope asked me for yet another crusade ^^
2. The civ-pedia-article on colonies is empty (maybe due to translation errors or something, since I play RFCE in German), so I am not quite sure what I need to do now for the final UHV. I understand I need to found one of the 2 West/East-Indian-Companies and then build one of the projects that require access and/or these companies. Is that correct? Or is there some way to complete this victory condition without playing for another....~300 years?
3. How much does the number of cities effect the efficency of an Empire? I.e. in "normal" RFC I vaguely remember the rule "until 10 cities there are no boni/mali but after that you get roughly 10% increased tech costs", is this the same here? Or are Empires recommended to be even smaller? Especially Venice? I didn't dare exceed the number of cities recommended by my civics, therefore I haven't expanded beyond the necessary cities to complete my UHVs (and Jerusalem for a few turns). How strict are the "becomes unstable with more than..."-civics rules? Do I get an additional instability for each city above that limit or something?

thanks a lot for your help in advance.

 

[merijn_v1]

thanks a lot, I chose Venezia (on easy, though) and so far have quite some fun with them.

However I now have a few more questions:
1. How do the crusades work? Specifically: I was chosen to lead a Crusade and conquered Jerusalem. Do I need to do anything more to get a reward? As I conquered Constantinople on the same turn I got my Golden Age, but I got only 1, usually if you get more than 1 they stack (16 turns instead of 8). Do I get to keep all units that don't immediately return after the conquest? What do you recommend doing with the city? Keep? Gift to the Arabs?
After a couple of turns they revolted and declared their independence (with my ~10 units still inside -.-) and the Pope asked me for yet another crusade ^^

You have 2 types of crusades. An offensive crusade and a defensive crusade.
The offensive crusade is what you had. At some certain year, all catholic civs get to choose the leader of the crusade, which is usually the most pious civ. (faith points) The 4th crusade always targets Constantinople, whereas the first 3 targets Jerusalem, unless you use financial power to choose another destiny.

When you are chosen, you get some units to conquer the holy city. When you manage, you'll get a golden age.

I'm not sure you get to keep the units. (Didn't do a crusade for some time) IIRC, some will return.
The advantages of the crusader cities are the wonders in it and golden age when conquering it. (and it the case of France, their UHV)
Some disadvantages: Extra city- and unit maintenance, cultural pressure from Arabia (which makes it very hard to have more than the 8 tile square of workable tiles), the extra city it could be that might bring you over the research cap)

A defensive crusade can happen when an islamic civ attacks a catholic civ to aid the catholic civ. The dending catholic civ gets some units from other catholic civ to defend itself.

2. The civ-pedia-article on colonies is empty (maybe due to translation errors or something, since I play RFCE in German), so I am not quite sure what I need to do now for the final UHV. I understand I need to found one of the 2 West/East-Indian-Companies and then build one of the projects that require access and/or these companies. Is that correct? Or is there some way to complete this victory condition without playing for another....~300 years?

It's indeed empty because you play in a different language. If you want, you can help us with the translation.

Colonies require several things. 2 thing all colonies require are: 1 Atlantic access, and 2 a specific tech. And some colonies require the West- or East India Company to be build. (But not all. The Gold Coast is buildable without a India Company for example)

You can win the UHV by building a colony before anyone else does. (A colony is any project, except the Encyclopedia and the 2 India Companies) As I mentioned above, not all colonies require an India company. So choosing one that doesn't makes the UHV easier. The african colonies are the easiest ones.

3. How much does the number of cities effect the efficency of an Empire? I.e. in "normal" RFC I vaguely remember the rule "until 10 cities there are no boni/mali but after that you get roughly 10% increased tech costs", is this the same here? Or are Empires recommended to be even smaller? Especially Venice? I didn't dare exceed the number of cities recommended by my civics, therefore I haven't expanded beyond the necessary cities to complete my UHVs (and Jerusalem for a few turns). How strict are the "becomes unstable with more than..."-civics rules? Do I get an additional instability for each city above that limit or something?

thanks a lot for your help in advance.

IIRC, you can have 12 or 14 cities without a penalty.

For the stability. You do loose stability when you exceed the limit. But that is only 1 category. If you can improve the other categories with that extra city, you get even more stability after all. Although that could take some time.

I usually have the max number of cities without the research penalty. (regardless of the civics I have)

 

[Chep]

thanks for your help. Where do I find the colony description? While I have no programming skills to speak of I should be able to help with the translation here and there.

I understood the basic workings of the crusades (didn't know about the Constantinople-part however. But then since I'll be the one to hold it there won't be one).
But I still don't know if there was an error that I didn't get my Golden Age for conquering Jerusalem/fulfilling my 2nd UHV or if they simply don't stack anymore.
Well, maybe I can amass enough GP to start 2 GAs or something to test it.

I'll have a look at the non-indies-colonies and will expand my empire, thanks

 

[merijn_v1]

You can find the text files in Mods/RFCEurope/Assets/XML/Text/.
All text are in there. Open them with a text editor and save the files with the translations. Upload them here, I will make sure the will be incorporated into the mod. Please post the files in this thread. (it will keep some organization in the forums)
If you don't understand the structure of those files, just ask.

Only the first one that succeeds in conquering Jerusalem gets a golden age. If Jerusalem gets reconquered by the Arabs and a new crusade it launched and it conquers Jerusalem again, no golden age will be started.
And IIRC, it only works for Jerusalem. All other target cities won't start a golden age.

To check, you can always give yourself some great people with the worldbuilder.

 

[ezzlar]

Some things to add from Merijns post, most is IIRC:

- You get to keep all the units that dont return at once.
- All the catholic nations chose between the most pious and the second most pious civs for the crusade. The pope will always vote for the second most pious nation (the popes lap dog).
- The first catholic nation to capture Jerusalem gets a Golden Age. Further attempts dont give a Golden Age.
- Defensive crusades can happen when a catholic nation is at war with a non-christian (incl pagan) nation.
- When you get Astronomy the Atlantic Access resource becomes visible, it has to be worked by a work boat. Get Tangier which has one AA. Then get a colony and win!
- Venezia starts with Merchant Republic which gives a penalty to more than 5 cities.
- After 10 cities you get a 10% penalty to research for each city (beware Byzantium!)
- Gift away Jerusalem after capture, it revolts anyway.

 

[Chep]

Okay guys, thanks A LOT. I loved playing with Venice (Easy&Medium so far).

You just simply build your buildings, *all the wonders*, suckerpunch the mightiest empire in the game and then go back to wonder-mode. Loved it

Haven't tried the GA-stacking so far, but I imagine it works and in my first game I only noticed the 2nd crusade or something. Because this time it worked, I conquered Jerusalem and got my Golden Age and then got another one when completing my UHVs.

Some thoughts/observations/pseudo-questions:
1. What is the point of the crusades after the first one? (conquering Jerusalem and then gifting it to someone didn't help my stability or piety comparing to the status before the attack). Ok, Burgundy eventually conquered most of Arabia when they had the lead, but that usually is not such a wise decision.
2. You can really amass some troups with the crusades. At the 2nd crusade I just waited a few (3-4) turns outside Jerusalem to a) bomb the defense and b) wait for my ships to take the knights to constantinople and the pope called one or two more crusades within less than 10 turns Oo
3. I don't get research. What influences the speed of research (I assumme the +190% in the progress bar indicate some sort of bonus speed?), and what causes "valuable" techs to lose their value? Is it bound to certain time-frames (e.g. every 100 years a new "row" of techs becomes cheaper) or to the distribution ("if 3 or more civs have this tech make all of the same level half-price"?)
4. No matter which option you chose when a city rebells, it will always go independent, right? So far I had it 3 times and once I even reloaded to try the different options 1by1... Do they start rebelling when your stability is at -1 or lower? or does it need to be -5 or worse?
5. My stability drops over (short periods of) time, especially near the end of a Golden Age (= when there's still ~3 turns of the age to go), this often leaves my stability worse after a GA than before Oo
(yes, starting the GA grants a bonus to stability but when this bonus is taken away after the GA, combined with the decrease in stability during the GA...)
Is that due to culture expanding or what else could be the effect?
6. I often get the message that the pope calls for a crusade to aid some poor guy, but I never get asked to participate or have any of my units wander off to help. And even though sometimes at war with Arabia I never had the option to call for a defensive crusade for myself. Have I done something wrong?
7. Yes, I will get to the translation, thanks for the links and explanations


You guys really rock. I think I'll try Genova next. Are there any other nice wonder-building-civs that plays on after 1500 (when Venice usually wins and all those shiny new wonders just become available)?

 

[ezzlar]

1. No point for you. Only historical accurecy.
3. + is the research penalty for researching too early. Tech cost is +190%.
6. Only Jerusalem crusades are participatory.

 

[gilgames]

Well you can try Hungary i.e. not changing to free rel. you can easily skip to win uhv and you can build a nice and strong emipre with sabile borders. and you can go to wondermonger mode

Def cruseds supported by the pope only
And yes venice is a quite easy one

Or you can try Germany its plays to 1640. and can do wondermonger periods too...

 

[Chep]

Hey,
sorry that I seem to use this as my personal feedback-thread, if I "spam" please just tell me so.

I started with Genova but became unhappy with them after I found it very hard to decide what to do and since there seem to be some errors.

1. (in the German translation) the intro-text says "It is the year 1060" while it is only 1014 (no prob, still might wanna fix that)
2. I don't know if I'm supposed to conquer Venice with my starting units(thus probably forcing that "empire" to collapse) or just leave them be until I can "take care" of them later. (still not really a problem)
3. My 1. UHV-condition says I have to conquer/controll "Milano, Sardinia, Creta and Cyprus", however when I found my cities on Corsica and Sardinia the advisor marks them as green. So it seems the description says "Milano" although it means "Corsica" or do I have to controll both of them? I'm not really sure I want to keep Milan (or conquer it in the first place for that matter)

So there is some confusion and I'm too lazy to play them through to check what is correct and what isn't.
Also: where would you settle? My first instincts where the plains hill on Corsica (Bonifacio) and between wine, silver and fish on Sardinia, so that Bonifacio will eventually get the food and salt. Or is it better to settle on the forrested hill on Corsica? (4 of Bonifacio)
And since all those nice juicy lands south of Italy seem to be stable provinces I really don't want to burden myself with 3-4 cities in northern Italy...
Could you give me some general pointers for Genova? Thanks.
So long I'll try Germany (Burgundy seems to "depend" or profit very much on/from quickly conquering Paris, which I don't really like)

edit: there also seem to be some errors with the italian audio files (venezia & genova), they play correctly but I always get an audio error-text displayed.
And the Germans don't speak German. Why?

edit2: if you had some general pointers for the Germans as well...which cities would you found? I think I'll try setting up my capital in Lothringen but after that...?

 

[gilgames]

Chill man!

UHV1: it means you need Milano AND Corsica AND .... ect, so all those cities!
prob2: Settling ai ALWAYS a problem/issue and thath what all player should do themselfs. The genearl advise here: make as much good cities as you can, aside settle whereever you have to. So if you settle the 2 islands and take milan+palermo, seems a good start! Those cities fall under one or both criteria mentioned above.
3: Basically you dont have to take care Venezia by uhv, just by common sense they can grow way too big.

4: /w Germany is what you need iron+horse and some stable to pump out tons Arm.lancer to estabilis you emipre. Starting army recommanded to take north italy...
ps: my personal experience is: you get horse faster from milan than pasture from north germany, but need both! barbs like to pillage anytime. Imo there is no good settle loc.s for germany but several acceptable

 

[gilgames]

And now a few words about my games....

Venezia: Its definietly not hard... taking tangier (or settle amsterdam ) in time makes it more easier, after your golden age its boring....the new stability zone sistem killed my expansion (i was between +0-9) it also took way too much time to get the 3. uhv, somewhere in the 16th century... (

Dutch! Yeah I won this too. Not really nice at all. Encoutered a serious "donno what"? So got 5 GM all in amsterdam got uhv 1. later I checked the city and all the GM dissapeared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
let the screenshots talk:

View attachment 347741

yeah 2 turn before uhv1 done...

and later:

View attachment 347743

Can someone tell me something about this?

But back to the strategy: change to religious civic with +100% GP and use gröningen to pump out GMs otherwise usless city. Make ur captol big and strong. Make peace asap with spain. Build a project or two if lucky. buy/beeline trading companies build east+west india comp. and then you can finish the 5. The early ones used to be built... and keep friendly the biggest emiperes (not easy).

oh and some fun :
View attachment 347744
Ivan Asen was choosen to lead the Crusade!

View attachment 347745
Turkey has capitulated and now vassal of Norse.