RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Bamboozle]

I'm not sure if this is just dumb luck or what, but as the plague was raging along beside my Ottoman Empire, I never caught it until several turns after it was hitting everyone else. Then as I caught it, it died down in the other kingdoms and empires. Not sure what's happening here, nor if it happens to be some coincidence or what.

Spoiler :

Speaking of Ottomans, my war with Venice was a stalemale for a century, then they went from Solid/Shaky to an instant collapse after I took one city. Keep in mind this was around the 1590s.

 

[AbsintheRed]

You can't just shove gameplay to the back like that in the interests of realism.

And as I said, gameplay>realism.

Gameplay is above realism, it always was this way in the mod. I'm not sticking to year by year historical happenings, only to historical guidelines.
Sure, RFCE follows these historical guidelines, but that's the whole point of being an RFC mod
If you don't like it, then these type of mods are not for you.

Whipping in any form is a concept very far from being realistic in a medieval european mod.
Still, if it was such an important thing for gameplay it would make it into the mod in some form.
But the game mechanic itself is neither necessary/important enough, nor fun enough to justify it's inclusion.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Whats wrong with Arabia in the SVN? The city names seem to be wrong. Jerusalem isnt Al-Quds for example. And with the terrain changes, the province of Arabia is useless. That would give a crap city just to complete UHV 1.

Slavery: I agree with AbsintheRed. Magic overday construction can be left out of the mod.

The city name maps have yet to be fixed after the area was redone a while ago. The cities are just named properly at the beginning, because that isn't related (in code) to the city name maps (I think).

Yep, city name maps are not updated in the area
DC123456789 volunteered to check them, so it will get better shortly
Small terrain changes in the Arabia province could be done, what do you suggest?

 

[2phunkey4u]

IIRC last time I saw an unworkable coffee resource in the red sea. That should be fixed. An oasis should be moved closer to the coast line to encourage founding Aqaba there.

 

[ezzlar]

Arabia needs some kind of sea water resource for food. Take same as outside Alexandria so health bonuses dont get too carried away. 1-2 plains which can be irrigated with Gardens of Al-Andalus (or was that bonus removed, dont remember...).

 

[Chep]

I just started a game with Sweden and think I've encountered a bug:

the Hanseatic Executive can't use the "water-bridges".
By water-bridges I mean the tiles where land and water "cross" each other as there are two tiles of each type diagonally from each other.
Other ships can pass through, but the Hanseatic Executive cant.

 

[gilgames]

Spain with Aristocracy is very historical getting Farries and Blast Fur. minght not be a problem. There is 1 thing to fix, and thats ISABELLA DDD I mean spain usually starts with bad relation comonly "cautios" or what...mean if you trade with france burgundy will decline you and vica versa... if you will get instant contact /w all cath. nation and be pleased /w all. that might help them, without messing up game balance imo.

Bulgaria is truely luck based, but you can do quick restarts!! and again!!!!! They are catholic in more than 60-70% ot times, /w AI, thats need to be fixed imo...

City names should be overwiev in the whole S-E europe!

 

[rfcfanatic]

Bulgaria is truely luck based, but you can do quick restarts!! and again!!!!! They are catholic in more than 60-70% ot times, /w AI, thats need to be fixed imo...

But still, the question remains - how to improve the gameplay for Bulgaria in a way that it wouldn't be luck-based any more? That you would be able to develop a generic strategy which would work in any game - just like you can do when playing as Byzantium? That you would be safe to say that you can win as Bulgaria on difficulty x using strategy y?

I agree with the religion problem you pointed out - Bulgaria attracts Catholicism much more than it does Orthodoxy. Maybe an Orthodox Missionary for Bulgaria would solve the issue?

 

[Chep]

has anyone ever won Bulgaria by UHV without conquering Constantinople? I mean you usally need it at least for the Great Theologers to get your piety, or?
Also: YES, an Orthodox Missionary would be useful.
But I don't have any idea how to "fix" Bulgaria. I just restart until I get a start where I can conquer Constantinople

 

[2phunkey4u]

You already need Constantinople for UHV#1 - so no way to avoid it. And you can't take it right away bc it has 3+ defenders initially.
My ideas:
- an Orthodox missionary indeed
- either one additional worker or one additional Konnik to fend of barbs.
- No Serbian revolt until 920 AD.
- Separate the indie player for Ragusa. They retaliate if you try to take Serbia and stretch yourself thinly.
- Please replace Ras with Nis. Better city site.

 

[merijn_v1]

IIRC last time I saw an unworkable coffee resource in the red sea. That should be fixed. An oasis should be moved closer to the coast line to encourage founding Aqaba there.

I checked it, and the coffee resource isn't on the sea tile. It works fine.
The other coffee however is moved, so Damascus can work it again.

About the oasis, I moved it to the tile northeast of the city. (were the sheep were) Now it provides fresh water to Aqaba and it allows a farm on the tile 1 north of Aqaba without the need of the Gardens of Al Andalus or Public Works. (for the irrigation) The sheep is moved 1 tile east.

 

[ezzlar]

Having played Arabia I must agree with earlier posts:

- 3-4 Ghazis spawning while
- 7-8 Seljuks spawn while
- 1 crusade popping

It is not noob friendly. You really need to be prepared.

 

[Civciv5]

I was playing as France in the latest version (not SVN) and I established a quite large empire, controlling France, West Germany, the Netherlands and Northern Italy. Initially I wanted to settle Bruges, but it wasn't a really good location to settle a city, maybe it should be buffed. Also, France as AI loves building Gand (Ghent) instead of Bruges. But Bruges was actually the more important city during the Middle Ages, a great centre of trade and with a population of 200,000 in the 15th century (second largest city in Europe after Paris and among the largest cities in the world). France or Burgundy should be encouraged to settle Bruges instead of Ghent or Brussels. Also Burgundy does not try to conquer the Netherlands, does it? I also noticed that where Antwerp is located, there is a marsh, which cannot be removed until the very late game, so I suggest to remove the marsh, Antwerp was quite an important city in the Netherlands and should be buildable. I noticed that the Pope cannot be declared war upon and is at peace with barbarians? Is there any way I can conquer Rome, because sometimes I just want to conquer it and revive the glory of the Roman Empire. The Ottomans usually remain small and vassalize to some larger civ, in one of my games "Istanbul has been captured by the Byzantine Empire" happened, quite hilarious.

 

[ezzlar]

The mod is coming along nicely. There are several small additions to the SVN which really does wonders for the overall game experience. A few thoughts:

- Ships can enter territory without Open Borders. Great! But for some reason Gun Galleys are unable to enter foreign territory. Hanseatic executive should get the same function. And caravels suddenly become a bit obsolete. Buff?
- Ships have longer movement, great!
- SoI gives your mercenaries the turn after recruiting instead of instapop. Hard to implement?
- I dont know why but in RFCE++ the AI is aggressive in another way, they can declare war if you dont give them resources or techs. Sometimes they cancel Open Borders. This never happens in my ordinary SVN games.
- In RFCE++ all the extra civs create greater tensions. In SVN the AI usually builds the exact same territory and then is happy. It is like everyone gets their landfill and then fight over some fringe city. (on the other hand, today Byzantium took both the Italian independent cities)

 

[swinnend]

I was playing as France in the latest version (not SVN) and I established a quite large empire, controlling France, West Germany, the Netherlands and Northern Italy. Initially I wanted to settle Bruges, but it wasn't a really good location to settle a city, maybe it should be buffed. Also, France as AI loves building Gand (Ghent) instead of Bruges. But Bruges was actually the more important city during the Middle Ages, a great centre of trade and with a population of 200,000 in the 15th century (second largest city in Europe after Paris and among the largest cities in the world). France or Burgundy should be encouraged to settle Bruges instead of Ghent or Brussels. Also Burgundy does not try to conquer the Netherlands, does it? I also noticed that where Antwerp is located, there is a marsh, which cannot be removed until the very late game, so I suggest to remove the marsh, Antwerp was quite an important city in the Netherlands and should be buildable.

Yeah sure, Bruges was the most important city in the region at one point. So was Ghent, Brussels and Antwerp. And then you haven't yet put Liège on the map or Mechelen (Malines) or Lille (Rijsel) or Middelburg. That's the problem with the Low Countries: you just can't fit them on a map this size.

While I am at it, what should be changed imo is to remove Charleroi from the map, since it only grew with the industrial revolution (During the Middle Ages, Charnoy was one of the many small hamlets in the area, with no more than about 50 inhabitants, part of the County of Namur.(wikipedia)).
Also, shouldn't Flanders be considered OK stability for Spain and Austria?

 

[AbsintheRed]

The mod is coming along nicely. There are several small additions to the SVN which really does wonders for the overall game experience. A few thoughts:

Thanks!

- Ships can enter territory without Open Borders. Great! But for some reason Gun Galleys are unable to enter foreign territory. Hanseatic executive should get the same function. And caravels suddenly become a bit obsolete. Buff?

Oh, you are right. Gun galley is a mistake, while caravels should be buffed
Any ideas?

- SoI gives your mercenaries the turn after recruiting instead of instapop. Hard to implement?

It was that way before, it's the vanilla RFC way
Was changed intentionally for RFCE when the merc system was revamped
I don't mind it in the current way. The merc is already in a given province, why couldn't you hire there in the given turn?
It will move to another province after a couple turns, and you will only be able to hire it there.

- I dont know why but in RFCE++ the AI is aggressive in another way, they can declare war if you dont give them resources or techs. Sometimes they cancel Open Borders. This never happens in my ordinary SVN games.
- In RFCE++ all the extra civs create greater tensions. In SVN the AI usually builds the exact same territory and then is happy. It is like everyone gets their landfill and then fight over some fringe city. (on the other hand, today Byzantium took both the Italian independent cities)

Agressiveness and landfill are 2 things that are very hard to improve generally.
Cancelling open borders and such diplo actions can be changed with leader personalities though
If you would like to, you can play around in the CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml file

Yeah sure, Bruges was the most important city in the region at one point. So was Ghent, Brussels and Antwerp. And then you haven't yet put Liège on the map or Mechelen (Malines) or Lille (Rijsel) or Middelburg. That's the problem with the Low Countries: you just can't fit them on a map this size.

While I am at it, what should be changed imo is to remove Charleroi from the map, since it only grew with the industrial revolution (During the Middle Ages, Charnoy was one of the many small hamlets in the area, with no more than about 50 inhabitants, part of the County of Namur.(wikipedia)).
Also, shouldn't Flanders be considered OK stability for Spain and Austria?

I agree with all you points
Will upload the Dutch city name map in a couple hours, so you and CivCiv5 can improve it
Flanders can be changed to OK for Spain and Austria, sure
Doesn't really matter though

 

[ezzlar]

Caravels get the +1 sight promotion making them ideal scouts?

Maybe you are right about the mercs, if they linger in a certain province they are probably just idling waiting for a job.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Caravels get the +1 sight promotion making them ideal scouts?

Sounds good to me

Maybe you are right about the mercs, if they linger in a certain province they are probably just idling waiting for a job.

Yep, that was the idea behind it

 

[AbsintheRed]

After checking the XMLs I can't see the reason why gun galleys can't pass enemy territory
Are you sure it's with the latest version?

Btw, for Hanseatic Executives I think it's better not to have this passing foreign territory feature
None of the other executives has it, and it would mean the Hanseatic League can expand to other civ's cities without open borders, while the other 6 corporations' executives can only expand if you have open borders.
So work boat and Hanseatic Executive remains the 2 naval units without the ability to pass foreign territory

 

[ezzlar]

But just because you can enter foreign water doesnt mean that you can enter the cities? Hanseatic should get the ability if that is the case. Gonna check tonight!