RFC "Training" SG?

It seems thadian isn't playing. (I just sent him a private message) Maax, why don't you play next? I'll take it up after you vassalize the Arabians. (I like building and turtling more):lol:

Was it was this same "pacficist" streak in you which caused you take those couple of extra turns extinguishing the Greeks? :mischief:
 
So I play now? I am litle confused about situation atm.
 
Yeah, war is inevitable, just like life. But it's nice to finish something you started.:thumbsup:

Maax, why don't you play the next 10 turns.
 
I will post my raport later today but situation of vassalising arabia is looking bad.
its currently my turn number 10 and Al-Quds and mekka have both fallen but arabia is not willing to capitulate and arabia was when war started unstable now he can be collapsing already. So what you suggest shall I take one more city or do something else?
 
Turn 0 - 1500 AD

We still have 7 turn of golden age left. Our diplo relations look rather bad... Only china, portugal and Dutch like us. Rest are cautious or annoyed and arabia is furious.
We have tech lead over all but Vikings and Germany and France. I started to move troops to attack position and I was planning to take Al-Quds first. I am hoping that germany or russia wont declare war on me.
Portugal is still shaky and I hope it wont go lower as losing portugal would be bad knock back.

Turn 1 - 1505 AD

I decided to attack arabia this turn but im afraid of arabia even collapsing before I can vassalise him because he is currently unstable/collapsing. Bombarded Al-quds.

Turn 2 - 1510 AD

Economics finished, started Military tradition to later get nationalism like Blizzrd wanted. we got free great merchant from Economics. Al-Quds captured.

Turn 3 - 1515 AD

Turkish revolt in pompei so it will probably soon flip to us. England just popped back to our list and they are already in war with us and refuse to speak. I will hopefully get peace before we lose connection to them again.
Great general is born to us.

Turn 4 - 1520 AD

Apostolic palace vote comes to stop war against me. I voted never! Setlet great general in istanbul. Great scientist is born. Setlet him in Istanbul.

Turn 5 - 1525 AD

Apostolic palace vote fails and no unhappiness for us. Arabian city Ninawa turns independent and on same turn it has turkish revolt so it might be flipping to us soon.
And civ4 crashed... :cry:
I managed to get autosave for this turn so I had to only redo this one turn.

Turn 6 - 1530 AD

Ethiopia came asking for defencive pact and I agreed. Military tradition finished and nationalism started as blizzrd wanted.
Pompei flips to us. Germany captured rome. Last turn of golden age so I switched to viceroyalty.

Turn 7 - 1535 AD

Germany became furious with us... Golden age ended and anarchy ended. Bombarded mekka.

Turn 8 - 1540 AD

Church of nativy builded in pompei. Bombarded mekka. Portugal turned unstable. :(

Turn 9 - 1545 AD

First attack on mekka but I did not have enough troops to take city. Few very wounded arabian camel archers survived. :cry:

Turn 10 - 1550 AD

Mekke falls, but arabia is NOT willing to capitulate :sad:. Ninawa is captured by persia.

Turn 11- 1555 AD

Indian civilization has been destroyed :eek: . Upgraded some knights in mekke to cuirassiers. Great scientist born.

Turn 12 - 1560 AD

Finally arabia capitulated:). Nationalism finished. I started optics because it will be finished in one turn. Opened borders with arabia.

This is where I stopped. During my turns I kept building alot infrastructure that I did not report in here.

Some things for next guy to do.

1. We have unused great scientist and great merchand. Decide what to do with them.
2. I lost a bit troops against arabia and I have started to make some troops as both persia and germany have more troops than us and we are pretty low in power.
3. We can build few national buildings so start building them.
4. Some cities have already very good infrastructure but some still lack them so build more infrastructure in thoose cities.
5. We are currently having pretty bad diplo relations so try to improve them.
6. We are at war with england so make peace with them when you can.
7. We have a bit tech lead over everybody currently so keep up the tech rate.
8. Arabia is collapsing ATM so you meybe should give him mekke.:confused:
 
After reading through your details, that was better than you first gave the impression. :goodjob:

The Great General probably should have been settled in one of the smaller cities in Asia Minor rather than in the capital though, because we are more likely to build military units in those smaller cities. But this isn't a big deal.

We don't need to worry too much about how much everyone hates/fears us. We are already using Mercantilism for instance. Unncessary War with England should be closed down if possible, but other civs just being unfriendly isn't really a problem.
 
It's unfortunate Nineveh (I like the usual English spelling better) got captured by Persia because that means we need to declare war on them (remember the criteria with 3 cities in the Fertile Crescent by 1700--Hattusas is just outside the flip zone!!) or build Al-Dammam on the coast. Vassalizing Persia isn't a bad idea but it'll take a lot out of our military, and Germany's getting stronger. Don't forget Russia.

I would give our Egyptian cities to Arabia. Let them get some free troops and expand, and if Egypt respawns, give them a map and they'll be pleased with us and even offer to be our vassal. (I would exchange a stable Egypt with an unstable Arabia any day). If we want to give Mekkah back, at least spread Islam in Hattusas and build at least one Islamic monastery before doing so.

Fortify Pompeii ASAP and build lots of culture there, maybe we can even flip Rome.

EDIT: Never mind, I didn't realize I'm up for the next few turns. :)
 
We're doing very well here, and a little bit of luck in international affairs means that the game is almost as good as won.

I sold compass to Portugal for 10 bucks because we need them to expand (remember they get free settlers and galleons when they know astronomy).

1. 1565 Ninowa (!) gifted to us by Persia!!! Saves us from annihilating them. A miracle in Pompeii happens: we pay 40 bucks and Ninowa and Kudus become Christianized. We give optics to Portugal for free (everybody knows it already).

2. 1570 Germany cancels cow to clam deal; we give them dye to get cow again (need to keep the trade up). We trade constitution and MT to Netherlands for Astronomy (we can still beat the Europeans to Physics and Communism).

3. 1575 AP resolution: we make peace with the British (which we voted yes the move before). We give astronomy to the Portuguese.

4. 1580 Persia wants liberalism (which is still relatively unknown in renaissance Europe), I decided not to give in (they can't harm us anyway, they being so unstable). And here comes the lucky part:

Germany declares war on France and Spain!!:king:

Takes us off their back (even though they kept their large stack in Rome as a deterrent); and in the future if we declare on France we may even win some bonus points with them, and that means no war with them.

5. 1585 Corporation done. Change to Military Science (reason being that most Europeans now know replacement parts, and Germany will know rifling soon, so we must counter by chemistry and grenadiers, while waiting for enough spy points to steal RP and rifling from them). Did I mention I sent a spy to Klagenfurt?
I start Olympic Park in Atina.

6. 1590 Mekke is out of rebellion, and it becomes our most lucrative city! (which Pompeii will probably surpass in the future)
Peter demands education, which is OK by me (to buy peace, as our north Black Sea city looks rather vulnerable).
France declares war on Mali (which is perfect, since Spain cannot now vassalize them because France and Spain have a defensive pact, and Mali will probably vassalize to us or Germany, and we gave them a map for 4+ relationship).
Persia signs defensive pact with Mongolia.

7. 1595 Messana revolts. The Vikings had a stack that they sent towards their historical Sicilian kingdom, but we will let them do the hard work for us.:mischief: Great Scientist born in Istanbul, and since we already have one, I settled him in Istanbul.

8. 1600 Messana is hit by the Vikings, with 2 weakened troops left. We raze Messana. The dejected Vikings head back home.:backstab:
I notice Ethiopia sending a stack of elephants and trebuchet towards Buto where there's only a knight. I would let them conquer it, and eventually they'll give it to us for free, or they'll collapse from the instability which is good for us anyway (eliminating a potential master for Mali).

9. 1605 Russia gets bought into warring with Spain by Germany. Mekke gets Christianity.

10. 1610 Uneventful

Future directions:
1. We have 3 moves to chemistry; and we have about half the amount of spy points to steal a tech from Germany. Build some grenadiers ASAP and stack in Pompeii and our northern Greek cities as a deterrent.
If a great spy spawns (or we get it first with Communism), send him to Klagenfurt and steal techs like mad from Germany!:yumyum:

2. I would personally go for democracy (4 moves) next, so that we can switch all civics at once (free speech, emancipation, free religion, communism). Stay away from free market at all costs (we have way too much production) by using our 2 great people waiting in Istanbul. The trick is to switch civics, and bring us out of anarchy the same move by starting a golden age with the great people.

3. Spread more religion around soon. I deliberately avoided Scientific method because it obsoletes a lot of our wonders, and I have a Buddhist monastery building in Ninowa. We have 4 religions in our realm which translates into 12 additional happy faces potentially per city, not counting the cathedrals.

4. After democracy go for scientific method. Go for communism first for the Great Spy, then physics, while we steal replacement parts and rifling from the Germans.

5. We can almost turtle it out from now on, just make sure we stack plenty of troops in Pompeii, Dirac, Yergogu and that northern Black Sea city (whose name I keep forgetting!) as a deterrent from German/Russian aggression. Unless we want to invade/vassalize Germany with infantry:ar15:...

6. Olympic park is 3 turns from finishing in Atina. And remember about the 8 turns of GA from our 2 great people and another 8 turns coming up in 1700. So unlike real life, the 17th century becomes the Golden age of the Ottoman Empire rather than an age of stagnation.:king:
 
Great stuff AP. :goodjob:

1. 1565 Ninowa (!) gifted to us by Persia!!!

Simply awesome.

Did I mention I sent a spy to Klagenfurt?

I could really use some tips and pointers on how to use espionage effectively to steal techs. In all the games of RFC (and CivIV BTS) that I have played, I have never successfully stolen any techs.

What are the key things to do to prepare for technology theft? How does a Great Spy work compared to a normal one? I just haven't done much with spies, usually I forget that they are even an option to be honest.

Future directions:
2. I would personally go for democracy (4 moves) next, so that we can switch all civics at once (free speech, emancipation, free religion, communism). Stay away from free market at all costs (we have way too much production) by using our 2 great people waiting in Istanbul. The trick is to switch civics, and bring us out of anarchy the same move by starting a golden age with the great people.

Totally agree with all of this. By communism, State Property is what is actually meant.

5. We can almost turtle it out from now on, just make sure we stack plenty of troops in Pompeii, Dirac, Yergogu and that northern Black Sea city (whose name I keep forgetting!) as a deterrent from German/Russian aggression. Unless we want to invade/vassalize Germany with infantry:ar15:...

All of this does of course assume that Mali will vassalize to us, which may happen but is not actually locked it just at this stage. Is there a 'plan B'?

I would consider making contact with Inca, just to see who got the conqueror event on them if nothing else, would be a worthwhile exercise. If they happen to have been conquered by a Euro civ that is looking Unstable (such as Spain) then they may be a potential canditate to vassalize to us at this point (in the future) - but only can if we have made contact with them.

6. Olympic park is 3 turns from finishing in Atina.

Actually it is still 7 turns from finishing in Atina.

What I would add as immediate actions, is to get more trade deals going. Between Spain, England, Mali and Mongolia there is currently (1610AD) 16 gold per turn available that we aren't getting for some of our surplus resources. Persia would trade 5GPT for our only Corn also, but I wouldn't take then up on this deal.
 
After reading through your details, that was better than you first gave the impression. :goodjob:

Thx
Also could some1 post the current roster as the old one is rather...old.
 
About stealing techs:
1. send your spy early (-50% cost takes at least 6 turns (your spy needs to be stationary for 5 turns after it gets there)
2. devote all your spy points against a close opponent (the farther they are, the more costly
3. steal techs early. A great spy early is much more useful than late, because you'll have a larger empire (which increases your cost of research) and the AI will start to build espionage buildings.
4. If you fail the first time, reload (too precious to lose those spies caught by chance), and trying stealing the next turn.

So currently, we have about 1000 points against Germany. Replacement parts is about 4000 points. So we're accumulating about 50 espionage points per move (double that probably during GA), i.e. we need another 20 moves (!) to get enough points to steal a tech. A great spy will give you about 1500 points so that would net us the next tech immediately. In the meantime we need more courthouses anyway to increase our espionage.

Sometimes, I stop science altogether, and devote several moves to all espionage, so that I can steal a tech--which is what we may need to do if Germany makes peace with France, because they'll probably turn their attention towards us. If Germany asks us to declare war, I think we should give in. Build a fleet to deter Spanish incursions.

BTW, I favor trading for replacement parts from somebody, and steal rifling instead. Just don't trade away Scientific Method.

About deals, once we switch to state property and free religion, we'll automatically open up trade routes with everybody. I think we should hold our spare resources in case Arabia needs them to stay alive (they are still unstable). If Ethiopia gives us Buto, give it to Arabia, or if Ethiopia collapses, we should conquer Aksum and give it to Arabia too.

I must have redistributed some tiles between Atina, Istanbul and Dirac because I'm trying to maximize our use of bureaucracy (i.e. Istabul has all the tiles right now, and Dirac is starving). When we switch to free speech, somebody please redistribute them more evenly to give Dirac more food.
 
Lurker's comment: Turkey has a remarkably high production/hammer output, compared to what it needs for the UHV. You should be able to get plenty of espionage buildings up and running once you hit Democracy and Communism. Building Wealth will allow you to spend even more on espionage. If you can wait for it, you may be better waiting until after Communism to use the espionage slider - no point in spinning your wheels before the +50% bonus comes through.
 
Got it. Do we have health problems? I don't like giving germany a dye for a bad health resource (only doubles at supermarkets).
 
Istanbul is at pop 18 or 19 without unhealthy faces. Usually I don't get any unhealthy faces until after steam power and coal, doubles with factories and coal plants, then it really hits you. Hopefully by then we would have conquered or vassalized Persia or Germany and all their health resources.

I agree with Panopticon, with one exception in our case: if Germany has rifles and wants to use them on you, we should devote 2 moves of research to steal it, even if it means giving France or Netherlands the upper hand in research by trading for RP.
 
we can always whip thoose unhealthinessess (lol) away :yuck::whipped:
 
In general, I never whip close to discovering democracy, because it takes really long to have the unhappiness go away. I also never whip my bureaucratic capital, and never whip when it's a golden age.

I usually whip when I have the plague, or if the city is small enough that unhappiness won't matter for a while and I really need that Christian monastery built ASAP for the hammers before scientific method.

Speaking of plague, the next one may be coming soon, and we might want to build some hammams soon (those you can whip because they provide 2+ happiness too) :):)
 
Got it. Do we have health problems? I don't like giving germany a dye for a bad health resource (only doubles at supermarkets).

???

Where does this question come from? I was suggesting that we trade some of our excess resources (such as clam and fish) to Spain, England, Mali and Mongolia (not Germany) for Gold Per Turn.

I wasn't suggesting trading dye for a bad health resource at any stage?
 
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