I know that the proposed historical union system is complicated and probably can't be implemented full scale in 1.2, but I feel that some form of it is necessary once we add Scotland and Aragon. The following four unions are very important historically and I feel that it would be very good if we could include them in some form: Poland-Lithuania, Scotland-England, Spain-Aragon, and Austria-Hungary. I know that some people don't like them because they feel they are deterministic, so perhaps they could either be coded as dependent on chance and/or gameplay events, or could be set as a toggle before the game starts in options? If we do not add them, I really doubt that we will hardly ever see the AI Spain conquer all of Iberia and so on. Maybe it could be tied to the scores of the civs? Even modeling it with a vassal relationship would be better than nothing.
RFCEurope 1.1
- Thread starter AbsintheRed
- Start date
merijn_v1
Black Belt
It's likely you have a corrupted download. Try downloading it again.
SeekTruthFromFacts
King
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2009
- Messages
- 670
There wasn't much wrong with the existing version, but I have tidied it up a little:
I continue to be amazed by the way that these forums have so many contributions from people who speak English as a second language. I speak a couple of other languages, but there's no way I could use them to summarize the history of Al-Andalus!
BTW I think a devout Muslim writing this would add the 'peace be upon him' formula after Muhammed's name. "PBUH" would do.
AD = "year of the Lord", so we don't need to write it twice.
SeekTruthFromFacts
King
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2009
- Messages
- 670
Mind you, a devout Muslim wouldn't be using AD!
merijn_v1
Black Belt
In version 1.1, the Palacio da Pena was brought back in. (Being a replacement for the Paco da Ribeira)
Up to now, I didn't realise it, but the Palacio da Pena isn't in the timescale of the mod. The palace as we know it was being build between 1842 and 1854. That is after the end date of this mod!
It did exist before that as a small chapel, but that isn't important enough to be a wonder in this mod.
So for historicalness, I think it should be changed back to the Paco da Ribeira.
Up to now, I didn't realise it, but the Palacio da Pena isn't in the timescale of the mod. The palace as we know it was being build between 1842 and 1854. That is after the end date of this mod!
It did exist before that as a small chapel, but that isn't important enough to be a wonder in this mod.
So for historicalness, I think it should be changed back to the Paco da Ribeira.
Chep
Emperor
In my current game with Moscow I noticed something strange:
The AI often has a tech "for trade" (also worldmaps) but doesn't want to trade it.
I have to offer more than 2 techs that each cost more beakers and often still have to add some money.
This never happened in any of the other games but then in these I never really traded techs after 1600 because by then I was always the techleader.
Also with the worldmap it's... well I know the whole map and have ~500 gold, still a friendly AI like Sweden won't trade their maps with me (it is white, so they do offer it).
Is this a bug or a feature?
Also: The cautious English immediately went to angry when I sold them my furs Oo
(by offering the fur and asking what they want to pay for it, and then taking it. no haggling or tribute demands or anything)
And while this is something from vanilla civ I think it might be "fixed" nevertheless:
Several Vassals were angry at me for having open borders/trading with their masters. I think AI civs should get a diplomacy-bonus towards each other if they are vasall/master. The player probably shouldn't to prevent exploits but...it just seems so stupid when Austria/Poland gets angry at you for dealing with Germany while they are vasallized to them -.-
(especially since I read that vasalls can declare war here, if that's right. never really tried it)
The AI often has a tech "for trade" (also worldmaps) but doesn't want to trade it.
I have to offer more than 2 techs that each cost more beakers and often still have to add some money.
This never happened in any of the other games but then in these I never really traded techs after 1600 because by then I was always the techleader.
Also with the worldmap it's... well I know the whole map and have ~500 gold, still a friendly AI like Sweden won't trade their maps with me (it is white, so they do offer it).
Is this a bug or a feature?
Also: The cautious English immediately went to angry when I sold them my furs Oo
(by offering the fur and asking what they want to pay for it, and then taking it. no haggling or tribute demands or anything)
And while this is something from vanilla civ I think it might be "fixed" nevertheless:
Several Vassals were angry at me for having open borders/trading with their masters. I think AI civs should get a diplomacy-bonus towards each other if they are vasall/master. The player probably shouldn't to prevent exploits but...it just seems so stupid when Austria/Poland gets angry at you for dealing with Germany while they are vasallized to them -.-
(especially since I read that vasalls can declare war here, if that's right. never really tried it)
Chep
Emperor
okay I encountered some (minor) bugs.
I am currently playing a game with the Norse because I want to own ALL colonies, and they're the only ones that can have Vinland
Anyway:
1. Sweden started in my game without any techs! (34-52 score points until I gave them some of the basic ones like Astrolabium and Gothic Architecture)
This may be influenced by me playing the Vikings untill almost 1600 but still it seems weird.
2. Because I didn't want to have too many deserters I (successfully) demanded a tribute from Sweden. I thought this would give me 10 turns of peace and afterwards I'd have attacked them. However 2 turns later they declared war on me Oo
I've already noticed how the DoWs here seem to be quite random sometimes (we're friendly and he really likes me but hey, he declares war out of the blue anyway) but this shouldn't even be possible.
I am currently playing a game with the Norse because I want to own ALL colonies, and they're the only ones that can have Vinland
Anyway:
1. Sweden started in my game without any techs! (34-52 score points until I gave them some of the basic ones like Astrolabium and Gothic Architecture)
This may be influenced by me playing the Vikings untill almost 1600 but still it seems weird.
2. Because I didn't want to have too many deserters I (successfully) demanded a tribute from Sweden. I thought this would give me 10 turns of peace and afterwards I'd have attacked them. However 2 turns later they declared war on me Oo
I've already noticed how the DoWs here seem to be quite random sometimes (we're friendly and he really likes me but hey, he declares war out of the blue anyway) but this shouldn't even be possible.
Chep
Emperor
ok, tech trading seems weird all throughout history. What's the reason for this? It seems the AI values their techs at the displayed beakers while my offers are valued at "time it takes to research x their beaker production" (thus including the usually very high research boni).
And Byzantium....well they suck. I mean, now that I know that there will be a plague around the Arab start I managed to play until meeting the first UHV without any major trouble (Sinope and Aleppo joined my Empire something like 3-4 times^^). The western barbs are...well there to train your troops for the Bulgarians it seems, they never pose any threat, while the ones in the east are not much more than a nuisance once you reached the Arab start and made peace with them. It might take a good chunk of your empire to produce units to counter them but once your walls stand....meh.
And then...out of the blue there appear the Seljuks with dozens of incredibly strong units within my borders. Yeay. Reload some old save or lose 4-5 cities -.-
It would be really, really good to have some sort of warning, like I suggested with Poland ("There are rumors of hordes of a strong and advanced tribe that is marching towards you, coming from the east.")
Because right now Byzantium is just annoying, you have to play it once just to know what events there are to cripple you and then you can play it again to prepare. I'd also recommend some sort of info either in the screen where you chose your civ or at the starting info for Byzantium that this civ is not recommended for players unfamiliar with RFCE.
It's not that playing with Byzantium is especially hard or anything. At 1050 I had twice the score of the next best civ and held Damascus + my whole starting empire (except for Jerusalem and the other city that usually flips to the Arabs - I led the barbs burn it down in 550
). It's just a game I find to be incredibly annoying. I know this probably sounds harsh and you put a lot of effort in it, in order to translate all the historic events into ingame-action, it's just...it all happens without any warnings and while there is some randomness to it, the events are pretty consistent, favouring people who have played the Arabs/Byzantese/Bulgarians in RFCE before a lot over "Newbies" and most other players.
Since Byzantium starts the game as THE main power I think most people new to RFC want to start with them (at least I did) and might get too frustrated to try any of the "more-fun-for-beginners"-civs.
-> Again: Please think about adding some sort of warning/info for Byzantium.
edit: yeah, if you know what to expect it can be sort of fun. I went 2 turns back to 1068 and spent 1k gold and now that I knew they would come 2-3 turns later it wasn't as frustrating.
And Byzantium....well they suck. I mean, now that I know that there will be a plague around the Arab start I managed to play until meeting the first UHV without any major trouble (Sinope and Aleppo joined my Empire something like 3-4 times^^). The western barbs are...well there to train your troops for the Bulgarians it seems, they never pose any threat, while the ones in the east are not much more than a nuisance once you reached the Arab start and made peace with them. It might take a good chunk of your empire to produce units to counter them but once your walls stand....meh.
And then...out of the blue there appear the Seljuks with dozens of incredibly strong units within my borders. Yeay. Reload some old save or lose 4-5 cities -.-
It would be really, really good to have some sort of warning, like I suggested with Poland ("There are rumors of hordes of a strong and advanced tribe that is marching towards you, coming from the east.")
Because right now Byzantium is just annoying, you have to play it once just to know what events there are to cripple you and then you can play it again to prepare. I'd also recommend some sort of info either in the screen where you chose your civ or at the starting info for Byzantium that this civ is not recommended for players unfamiliar with RFCE.
It's not that playing with Byzantium is especially hard or anything. At 1050 I had twice the score of the next best civ and held Damascus + my whole starting empire (except for Jerusalem and the other city that usually flips to the Arabs - I led the barbs burn it down in 550
). It's just a game I find to be incredibly annoying. I know this probably sounds harsh and you put a lot of effort in it, in order to translate all the historic events into ingame-action, it's just...it all happens without any warnings and while there is some randomness to it, the events are pretty consistent, favouring people who have played the Arabs/Byzantese/Bulgarians in RFCE before a lot over "Newbies" and most other players.Since Byzantium starts the game as THE main power I think most people new to RFC want to start with them (at least I did) and might get too frustrated to try any of the "more-fun-for-beginners"-civs.
-> Again: Please think about adding some sort of warning/info for Byzantium.
edit: yeah, if you know what to expect it can be sort of fun. I went 2 turns back to 1068 and spent 1k gold and now that I knew they would come 2-3 turns later it wasn't as frustrating.
Wessel V1
Emperor
War declarations are based on war maps and don't take relations into account. Even if you are friendly with the Norse, they WILL declare war on you when you control their lands. Those war maps can be found in the reference folder, but I don't know whether these are up to date or not.
Tech trading is influenced by a couple of things, both RFC and RFCE related. First, the tech costs are evaluated on the regular game's Monarch level. So, you have a slight tech disadvantage. Second, there is the tech cost increase for having too many cities. If you have a tech that would cost you 1000 beakers but now costs 3000 beakers for whatever reason, the AI still values the tech 1000 beakers and you'll only get something of 1000 beakers in return. The bad thing for you as a player is that that value doesn't inflate. So, the techs you already posess actually deflate in value. This is also why tech trading is much harder if you play as an early civ like Byzantium and as a later civ like the Netherlands. On the other hand, this also explains why it's so cheap to trade techs with Byzantium: they feel like their own techs lose their value!
Tech trading is influenced by a couple of things, both RFC and RFCE related. First, the tech costs are evaluated on the regular game's Monarch level. So, you have a slight tech disadvantage. Second, there is the tech cost increase for having too many cities. If you have a tech that would cost you 1000 beakers but now costs 3000 beakers for whatever reason, the AI still values the tech 1000 beakers and you'll only get something of 1000 beakers in return. The bad thing for you as a player is that that value doesn't inflate. So, the techs you already posess actually deflate in value. This is also why tech trading is much harder if you play as an early civ like Byzantium and as a later civ like the Netherlands. On the other hand, this also explains why it's so cheap to trade techs with Byzantium: they feel like their own techs lose their value!
Chep
Emperor
Okay guys, enough with the jokes. How do I play with Cordoba? I mean I have played and won with quite a few civs now (Vikings, Spain, Byzantium (well, almost), Portugal, etc) but Cordoba...
It is impossible to stop the barbs from razing your improvements and you only have ~250 years to grow Cordoba from size 1 to ~12-14 (= Constantinople) to make it the largest city? There must be some sort of trick I'm not getting
(I got to size 7 by 870 but then they destroyed almost all the improvements...again)
They have really interesting UHVs and I'd love to play as the Muslims for once, but come on. THAT MANY BARBS? And I have no terrain where I could defend against them before they reach Cordoba...
(I didn't really like playing as the Arabs as their starting situation seemed to much luckbased to me and also the "spread islam"-condition means I should war early on which I'm not overly fond of. And well...the Ottomans...I only tried them once but nah...didn't like them)
@wessel:
thanks a lot!
The declarations still seem weird, but okay that explains it.
Concerning the tech-trading: I still don't really get why this means that I have to pay 3-4 techs of the same "row" in the tech-tree for 1. Usually techs in the same row have at least roughly the same cost. And I don't think I've ever really traded techs with Byzantium Oo well maybe bought 1-2 early ones for gold when playing with Venice or something... Cordoba for example can only offer the sailing-tech they start with for 1-2 lowlevel-techs (7k beakers vs ~600-2000) so I wouldn't really call that a good deal either^^
It is impossible to stop the barbs from razing your improvements and you only have ~250 years to grow Cordoba from size 1 to ~12-14 (= Constantinople) to make it the largest city? There must be some sort of trick I'm not getting
(I got to size 7 by 870 but then they destroyed almost all the improvements...again)
They have really interesting UHVs and I'd love to play as the Muslims for once, but come on. THAT MANY BARBS? And I have no terrain where I could defend against them before they reach Cordoba...
(I didn't really like playing as the Arabs as their starting situation seemed to much luckbased to me and also the "spread islam"-condition means I should war early on which I'm not overly fond of. And well...the Ottomans...I only tried them once but nah...didn't like them)
@wessel:
thanks a lot!
The declarations still seem weird, but okay that explains it.
Concerning the tech-trading: I still don't really get why this means that I have to pay 3-4 techs of the same "row" in the tech-tree for 1. Usually techs in the same row have at least roughly the same cost. And I don't think I've ever really traded techs with Byzantium Oo well maybe bought 1-2 early ones for gold when playing with Venice or something... Cordoba for example can only offer the sailing-tech they start with for 1-2 lowlevel-techs (7k beakers vs ~600-2000) so I wouldn't really call that a good deal either^^
Wessel V1
Emperor
It works like this: any tech has a base value. However, there are a few things that modify that base value: difficulty level, tech constants, number of cities and time. In short:
- Difficulty level is explained in the post above: the AI values it's own techs slightly higher that yours.
- Tech constants are too explained above: each civ techs at its own level. This is to make sure early civs don't get an ridiculous tech lead over later civs, because of infrastructure. Later civs have better constants than earlier civs, so techs are cheaper Sweden and the Netherlands and more expensive for Byzantium, France and Arabia. You can find the exact numbers in the .../Beyond the Sword/Mods/RFCE/Assets/Python/Consts file.
- Number of cities: more cities means more expensive techs.
- Time: the earlier you want to get a tech, the more expensive it is.
It works like this: first, you have to take into account the difficulty level. The AI trades techs if the number of beakers you give them are a bit higher than the number of beakers they give you in return. I think the difference is close to 20%, but the exact number is in the non-RFCE XML: .../Beyond the Sword/RFCE/Assets/XML/GameInfo/Civ4HandicapInfo -->
<iResearchPercent>x</iResearchPercent>
Then, multiply by the modifier of your own civ (in percentages of course) and the other constants. The do the same for the other civ. The divide your number (for example, 1.20 x 1.25 x 1.30 x 1.00) by the number of the civ you want to trade with (1.00 x 0.80 x 1.00 x 1.00), that number is the multiplier for the number of beakers you need to give to the AI to establish a trade.
- Difficulty level is explained in the post above: the AI values it's own techs slightly higher that yours.
- Tech constants are too explained above: each civ techs at its own level. This is to make sure early civs don't get an ridiculous tech lead over later civs, because of infrastructure. Later civs have better constants than earlier civs, so techs are cheaper Sweden and the Netherlands and more expensive for Byzantium, France and Arabia. You can find the exact numbers in the .../Beyond the Sword/Mods/RFCE/Assets/Python/Consts file.
- Number of cities: more cities means more expensive techs.
- Time: the earlier you want to get a tech, the more expensive it is.
It works like this: first, you have to take into account the difficulty level. The AI trades techs if the number of beakers you give them are a bit higher than the number of beakers they give you in return. I think the difference is close to 20%, but the exact number is in the non-RFCE XML: .../Beyond the Sword/RFCE/Assets/XML/GameInfo/Civ4HandicapInfo -->
<iResearchPercent>x</iResearchPercent>
Then, multiply by the modifier of your own civ (in percentages of course) and the other constants. The do the same for the other civ. The divide your number (for example, 1.20 x 1.25 x 1.30 x 1.00) by the number of the civ you want to trade with (1.00 x 0.80 x 1.00 x 1.00), that number is the multiplier for the number of beakers you need to give to the AI to establish a trade.
The Flame8
Prince
So is this going to develop past 1.1 or did I miss another link (I'm terrible at that)?
Chep
Emperor
the SVN contains some newer updates. And I read some talk about additional civs. So yes, this is in development but more along the lines of small improvements here and there I think.
-> a 1.20 is in the works although I have no information on how far it is and what it contains/changes
-> a 1.20 is in the works although I have no information on how far it is and what it contains/changes
merijn_v1
Black Belt
This is the current changelog:
http://rfceurope.svn.sourceforge.ne...urope/ChangeLog.txt?revision=1064&view=markup
(all changes are already playable in the SVN, though)
http://rfceurope.svn.sourceforge.ne...urope/ChangeLog.txt?revision=1064&view=markup
(all changes are already playable in the SVN, though)
The Flame8
Prince
Great I'll have to check it out when I have time 
.
I played this awhile ago... glad to see it developing
.I played this awhile ago... glad to see it developing
AbsintheRed
Deity
Yep, of course it will
Try using the SVN: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=485431
the SVN contains some newer updates. And I read some talk about additional civs. So yes, this is in development but more along the lines of small improvements here and there I think.
-> a 1.20 is in the works although I have no information on how far it is and what it contains/changes
There were only some minor changes up in the SVN in the past 2 months
But there were a lot of bigger improvements since 1.1
And some major thing are still in work for 1.2, especially those new civs
Yeah, I put in floodplains, resources, and independent cities in good spots in Iberia every time I play so that Cordoba has a chance... sometimes it expands so quickly it collapses. Which is realistic, I guess.
I feel a bit strange creating this account just to ask one question but here goes. I was playing as the Arabs and have tried putting off researching Ferriers for as long as possible, because as soon as you do the Bedouin barbarians get Ghazis which are a real pain to defeat. They seem to spawn about once every other turn (on Viceroy!) and I was wondering if there was a way to make them not get Ghazis whilst I have them short of putting a troop on every single square in Arabia so they can't spawn?
I built Le Mezquita in Jerusalem/Al-Quds which was a boneheaded move of a completely avoidable nature which also screwed me over I guess. Maybe I'm just a bit of a novice, everyone else didn't seem to have a problem with them. In any case, you've made a great mod and many congratulations and thanks.
I built Le Mezquita in Jerusalem/Al-Quds which was a boneheaded move of a completely avoidable nature which also screwed me over I guess. Maybe I'm just a bit of a novice, everyone else didn't seem to have a problem with them. In any case, you've made a great mod and many congratulations and thanks.
ezzlar
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,845
You should get Farriers asap. The barb spawns are tied to different years so get it fast. Ghazis show up eventually. And you need Ghazis for the crusaders. Al-Quds should build Heroic Epic, all military buildings and pump out Ghazis. Then instawipe the crusaders as they spawn.
Dont forget the spearman on the hill so they spawn on the plains instead with no defense bonus.
Dont forget the spearman on the hill so they spawn on the plains instead with no defense bonus.
Chep
Emperor
I don't think you can prevent the barbarians from getting Ghazi. But You'll need them to fight against the crusaders.
I recommend using Jerusalem to build spearmen, spearmen and...spearmen once you have a few with the hill-promotion you can research Farriers. Yes the Ghazi will probably kill your spearmen within a few turns but by then you have Ghazi of your own (the heroic epic is a nice thing to build in Jerusalem, if you find the time).
Also: If you own Alexandria or founded another city in Egypt, check the mercenary-screen. They have archer-mercs that stand a real chance against the ghazi when defending your cities.
I only played them in Monarch but yeah, the barbs are a real pain in the ass, so you should try to focus on building up a small army just to deal with them (then later this army can fight the crusaders).
I recommend using Jerusalem to build spearmen, spearmen and...spearmen
once you have a few with the hill-promotion you can research Farriers. Yes the Ghazi will probably kill your spearmen within a few turns but by then you have Ghazi of your own (the heroic epic is a nice thing to build in Jerusalem, if you find the time).Also: If you own Alexandria or founded another city in Egypt, check the mercenary-screen. They have archer-mercs that stand a real chance against the ghazi when defending your cities.
I only played them in Monarch but yeah, the barbs are a real pain in the ass, so you should try to focus on building up a small army just to deal with them (then later this army can fight the crusaders).
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