Rhino - Deity Hatty - Random Personalities
- Thread starter OneLeggedRhino
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OneLeggedRhino
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^ Remember, Hatty is Spiritual. Don't need the GA to swap to Nationalism. Though we have seen the power of drafts in the past.
vranasm
Deity
muskets+cannons are very good option if enemy is in medieval era.
just build 1-2 pikes for knights.
just build 1-2 pikes for knights.
OneLeggedRhino
King
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^ I've always favored cannons. I mean, going from trebs to cannons is a huge improvement (3x strength), but going from knights to curiassairs is a much smaller bump (20% improvement). Why would you favor curs?
I guess it wouldn't really matter on Marathon because time reasons change the mathematics around movement, but on Normal, if you can get to MiliTrad and Gunpowder first, Cuirs are favored because they literally explode any enemy that doesn't mass Pikemen/War Elephants. Especially with Spy support.
Check out Mylene's Deity Isabella game for more info.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=444418
All in all, it just feels more fun than a slow Rifle/Cannon slog. And it has a higher success potential, since not everyone has War Elephants. But with Rifle/Cannon, you're dealing with crap like Grenadiers countering Rifles and Airships dealing attrition damage. None of that is there in the Medieval era.
vranasm
Deity
you cheat with the speed on marathon Rhino...nothing bad about it, we knew from the start.
I got in an argument about this with vicawoo and TMIT in other thread and even if i didn't buy their arguments completely, the slower speeds surely make siege more viable ...
I got in an argument about this with vicawoo and TMIT in other thread and even if i didn't buy their arguments completely, the slower speeds surely make siege more viable ...
MyOtherName
Emperor
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Suicide bombers?!
Well, there's also No Tech Trades, which has a huge impact since many of our textbook strategies depend on tradebait. Rhino's basically playing a totally different game haha.
OneLeggedRhino
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My Golden Age (Turns 501-525, Years 1005-1125 AD)
I start by deciding between taking Steel right now and going to war, vs taking a golden age and teching hard.
First, techs:
Everyone is massively behind. Gunpowder is fairly accessible, but most AIs don't even have Paper. I can either go to war now with cannon and muskets vs knights and longbows, or later with cannon and curiassairs vs muskets. Now is probably better, but they're both good options.
Long term, here's how my GNP stacks up against Shaka (without the golden age):
And food:
Wow, those are both huge. Time is definitely on my side, and I'm about to run away with techs. Let's do the golden age and get an era ahead of everyone.
Here are my cities with all the specialists turned on, ordered by turns to a GP:
And here's the research plan (turns is at breakeven research):
Then Liberalism to grab Steel.
Over the next few turns, I get three Great Scientists (save them for bulbs later) and a Great Spy (the second of the game). I consider saving him for a second golden age, but (1) I probably won't need another GA anytime soon, and (2) I'm sure I'll run EPs again at some point. He makes Scotland Yard in Thebes. At the end of the GA, I have a bunch of cities close to making another GP. Mercantilism should pop them out as I prepare for war.
Here's everything else that happened this turnset:
1040: Nationalism completes. I steal Drama from Stalin, research Music in one turn. (He didn't have Music for me to steal).
1075: Izzy declares on Shaka. This was a diplo failing on my part. I thought she was at war with Zara, but they must have made peace and, since I don't know Zara, I didn't get a notification. Now, she is pleased with me, so my odds were pretty good, but I'm still lucky she went for Shaka and not me.
Also, a slight change to the research plan: Research Steel rather than Replaceable Parts, then use two Great Scientists to bulb Scientific Method, use Liberalism for Biology and get a ton of food for specialists and whips.
1085: Steal Optics from Stalin, based just on EPs from specialists. Finally, I can meet Zara.
1125: Steel completes. My golden age is over, and I'm teched up for war.
Two GSs bulb Sci Meth, and the third will either bulb Astro or something else if I wind up stealing it from Stalin.
Military will finish the Heroic Epic in a few turns, then start cranking out units. (Would have been better to micro that to finish this turn, but I was focused on GPP).
I save there. Next turnset, I'll swap civics, put everywhere on war production, and conquer Shaka.
I start by deciding between taking Steel right now and going to war, vs taking a golden age and teching hard.
First, techs:
Spoiler :
Everyone is massively behind. Gunpowder is fairly accessible, but most AIs don't even have Paper. I can either go to war now with cannon and muskets vs knights and longbows, or later with cannon and curiassairs vs muskets. Now is probably better, but they're both good options.
Long term, here's how my GNP stacks up against Shaka (without the golden age):
Spoiler :
And food:
Spoiler :
Wow, those are both huge. Time is definitely on my side, and I'm about to run away with techs. Let's do the golden age and get an era ahead of everyone.
Here are my cities with all the specialists turned on, ordered by turns to a GP:
Spoiler :
And here's the research plan (turns is at breakeven research):
Spoiler :
Then Liberalism to grab Steel.
Over the next few turns, I get three Great Scientists (save them for bulbs later) and a Great Spy (the second of the game). I consider saving him for a second golden age, but (1) I probably won't need another GA anytime soon, and (2) I'm sure I'll run EPs again at some point. He makes Scotland Yard in Thebes. At the end of the GA, I have a bunch of cities close to making another GP. Mercantilism should pop them out as I prepare for war.
Here's everything else that happened this turnset:
1040: Nationalism completes. I steal Drama from Stalin, research Music in one turn. (He didn't have Music for me to steal).
1075: Izzy declares on Shaka. This was a diplo failing on my part. I thought she was at war with Zara, but they must have made peace and, since I don't know Zara, I didn't get a notification. Now, she is pleased with me, so my odds were pretty good, but I'm still lucky she went for Shaka and not me.
Spoiler :
Also, a slight change to the research plan: Research Steel rather than Replaceable Parts, then use two Great Scientists to bulb Scientific Method, use Liberalism for Biology and get a ton of food for specialists and whips.
1085: Steal Optics from Stalin, based just on EPs from specialists. Finally, I can meet Zara.
1125: Steel completes. My golden age is over, and I'm teched up for war.
Spoiler :
Two GSs bulb Sci Meth, and the third will either bulb Astro or something else if I wind up stealing it from Stalin.
Military will finish the Heroic Epic in a few turns, then start cranking out units. (Would have been better to micro that to finish this turn, but I was focused on GPP).
Spoiler :
I save there. Next turnset, I'll swap civics, put everywhere on war production, and conquer Shaka.
I find random personalities actually makes the game a lot easier. A lot of leader personalities are synergistic with the leaders traits/UUs and you often end up with gimped opponents. Putting Ghengis or Montezum's brain into Ghandi's body makes for an aggressive but ultimately weak AI.
OneLeggedRhino
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Pacifism is So Last Century (Turns 525-542, Years 1125-1210 AD)
Playing a quick turnset from my hotel in San Francisco (in the real world), preparing for war with Shaka (in the game world). First, a couple buildings to take care of before we start on troops:
I swap to Slavery / Organized Religion. After one turn, I whip the Stables, overflow into Heroic Epic, and tack on a Theater for 1 pop whip. (In the event that I need culture happiness, I'd like to be prepared).
1130: Scientific Method finishes. Remember how we all thought there was a resource 1S of Thebes? Turns out there is:
.... thanks?
Next turn finishes Liberalism for Biology and a ton of food. After that, I'll go for Replaceable Parts (to make mills decent), followed by Rifling. (Probably won't be in for the Shaka war, but it will be useful for conquering Stalin).
Stalin has Astronomy, which I'll steal eventually, but it's useless for war with Shaka. I also thought about Communism, but I have plenty of food at this point, and a few bio farms can support workshops just fine.
1150: Time to build for war. First, I whip a few theaters (cheap enough with Creative), then swap to Police State / Nationalism / Slavery / Mercantilism / Theocracy:
And draft one off the top of pretty much every city, then swap back to Bureaucracy and Caste (for the workshop bonus). I'd thought about whipping some units to use all this food, but there's no emergency, and I'd rather have population working workshops. (Every city is getting a couple of them). Once I have a stack, I'll probably swap back to Rep and turn on research again.
1175: I meet Zara, finally. Even though he's at -4 with me (from trading with his worst enemy, Izzy), he'll still open borders, so he can't be that militaristic.
1210: Time to turn this fake war into a real one. It's not a huge stack, but it should be enough to take some cities. Especially with how unprepared Shaka looks:
Half my cities are dedicated to units:
How do techs stack up?
No one has anything that can stand up to cannons and cuirassairs. Should be easy.
Next turnset: Conquering Shaka. (He'll probably capitulate to Izzy, but I'll see what kind of land I can get first).
Playing a quick turnset from my hotel in San Francisco (in the real world), preparing for war with Shaka (in the game world). First, a couple buildings to take care of before we start on troops:
Spoiler :
I swap to Slavery / Organized Religion. After one turn, I whip the Stables, overflow into Heroic Epic, and tack on a Theater for 1 pop whip. (In the event that I need culture happiness, I'd like to be prepared).
Spoiler :
1130: Scientific Method finishes. Remember how we all thought there was a resource 1S of Thebes? Turns out there is:
Spoiler :
.... thanks?
Next turn finishes Liberalism for Biology and a ton of food. After that, I'll go for Replaceable Parts (to make mills decent), followed by Rifling. (Probably won't be in for the Shaka war, but it will be useful for conquering Stalin).
Spoiler :
Stalin has Astronomy, which I'll steal eventually, but it's useless for war with Shaka. I also thought about Communism, but I have plenty of food at this point, and a few bio farms can support workshops just fine.
1150: Time to build for war. First, I whip a few theaters (cheap enough with Creative), then swap to Police State / Nationalism / Slavery / Mercantilism / Theocracy:
Spoiler :
And draft one off the top of pretty much every city, then swap back to Bureaucracy and Caste (for the workshop bonus). I'd thought about whipping some units to use all this food, but there's no emergency, and I'd rather have population working workshops. (Every city is getting a couple of them). Once I have a stack, I'll probably swap back to Rep and turn on research again.
1175: I meet Zara, finally. Even though he's at -4 with me (from trading with his worst enemy, Izzy), he'll still open borders, so he can't be that militaristic.
Spoiler :
1210: Time to turn this fake war into a real one. It's not a huge stack, but it should be enough to take some cities. Especially with how unprepared Shaka looks:
Spoiler :
Half my cities are dedicated to units:
Spoiler :
How do techs stack up?
Spoiler :
No one has anything that can stand up to cannons and cuirassairs. Should be easy.
Next turnset: Conquering Shaka. (He'll probably capitulate to Izzy, but I'll see what kind of land I can get first).
OneLeggedRhino
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The War With Shaka (Turns 542-561, Years 1210-1305 AD)
Workweek is over, time for more Civ.
1225: Replaceable Parts completes. I've already got a handful of windmills, and I turn most of my mines into mills. (Most cities will focus on specialists, and a couple of workshops scattered around will cover production. In general, trading a hammer for a food is a good deal, plus you get a bonus commerce).
Next is Rifling in around 20 turns.
1250: Shaka's first city is bombarded down. That took longer than I'd wanted with just two cannon, between walls, a castle, and Chitchen Itza, but it's done now. Shaka's stack before:
And after this turn's attack:
Next turn, the city falls. It'll be pretty good once I clear Shaka's culture.
Also, it has 1% Russian culture. I'll need a few units there until it builds up some of my culture.
1270: Steal Astronomy. Mecca starts on frigates, since it already has a drydock. (I must have built it during the age of peace, but I don't recall. Glad to have it now, though.)
Now my Great Scientists can bulb Physics. It's 20K beakers, each GS gives 6k and change, so once I get 3 of them I'll grab the tech.
1300: A few turns to heal and bring in reinforcements, and I'm on to the next city. It's bombarded down in 1300.
I lost research vision on Shaka for a bit, and he has muskets now. Doesn't matter. I lose a few muskets and take half his stack.
1305: Shaka will already capitulate. He's like your dorky friend who says "Ow quit it" when anyone hits him in the arm.
I wish the game told you what the land and pop percentages are. I mean, I have stats on him, I can even see his research, but I can't easily eyeball if he's at 40% or 51%.
If I can easily keep him a vassal, I'd accept capitulation right now. Keep both of us strong, conquer Stalin, then turn my attention to Izzy. (I often take one last city, then gift it back for relations. Especially when it's already bombarded and weak. But Shaka will hate me either way, and I'd rather not ruin his infrastructure. Take care of your pets, right?)
I save, accept his capitulation, and plan to reload if he's above 48%. Turns out there's no need, he's around 40%, so I can even gift that culture-crushed city back to him before it flips or starts revolting. That pushes him to 53% land, but he's still at 40% pop, my cities are growing, and once I take some of Stalin's cities, he'll never get free.
Shaka's gold lets me turn research on: Rifling in 5. I set him to Astronomy (40 turns) to prepare for war with Izzy.
One down, three to go. Next turnset: This stack rampages through Stalin's lands:
Workweek is over, time for more Civ.
1225: Replaceable Parts completes. I've already got a handful of windmills, and I turn most of my mines into mills. (Most cities will focus on specialists, and a couple of workshops scattered around will cover production. In general, trading a hammer for a food is a good deal, plus you get a bonus commerce).
Next is Rifling in around 20 turns.
1250: Shaka's first city is bombarded down. That took longer than I'd wanted with just two cannon, between walls, a castle, and Chitchen Itza, but it's done now. Shaka's stack before:
Spoiler :
And after this turn's attack:
Spoiler :
Next turn, the city falls. It'll be pretty good once I clear Shaka's culture.
Spoiler :
Also, it has 1% Russian culture. I'll need a few units there until it builds up some of my culture.
1270: Steal Astronomy. Mecca starts on frigates, since it already has a drydock. (I must have built it during the age of peace, but I don't recall. Glad to have it now, though.)
Spoiler :
Now my Great Scientists can bulb Physics. It's 20K beakers, each GS gives 6k and change, so once I get 3 of them I'll grab the tech.
1300: A few turns to heal and bring in reinforcements, and I'm on to the next city. It's bombarded down in 1300.
Spoiler :
I lost research vision on Shaka for a bit, and he has muskets now. Doesn't matter. I lose a few muskets and take half his stack.
Spoiler :
1305: Shaka will already capitulate. He's like your dorky friend who says "Ow quit it" when anyone hits him in the arm.
Spoiler :
I wish the game told you what the land and pop percentages are. I mean, I have stats on him, I can even see his research, but I can't easily eyeball if he's at 40% or 51%.
If I can easily keep him a vassal, I'd accept capitulation right now. Keep both of us strong, conquer Stalin, then turn my attention to Izzy. (I often take one last city, then gift it back for relations. Especially when it's already bombarded and weak. But Shaka will hate me either way, and I'd rather not ruin his infrastructure. Take care of your pets, right?)
I save, accept his capitulation, and plan to reload if he's above 48%. Turns out there's no need, he's around 40%, so I can even gift that culture-crushed city back to him before it flips or starts revolting. That pushes him to 53% land, but he's still at 40% pop, my cities are growing, and once I take some of Stalin's cities, he'll never get free.
Spoiler :
Shaka's gold lets me turn research on: Rifling in 5. I set him to Astronomy (40 turns) to prepare for war with Izzy.
One down, three to go. Next turnset: This stack rampages through Stalin's lands:
Spoiler :
OneLeggedRhino
King
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Who Has Two Thumbs and Likes Backstabbing? This Guy (Turns 561-570, Years 1305-1350 AD)
The war with Shaka was quick. It didn't quite leave me satisfied. Let's play a bit further.
Next goal is Stalin. I thought about leaving him at friendly and going for a permanent alliance, but (1) my military is easily sufficient, and (2) I don't know how all the diplo will play out, so I'd rather go for the sure thing now and just vassal him.
I start by planning which cities to take:
The ones without a dot I don't want, though I may take them anyway. St Petersberg will go to Shaka, since it already has his culture. There are some cities that would be better moved over a tile, but I want to roll this war straight into a continental war with Izzy, so it's better to take cities as they are.
My plan is to send the main stack NE from Shaka through St Petersberg to Moscow, and build a second stack in my mainland to take the Southern two cities. Shaka will go for the city on the marble, though I may need to take it for him and gift it. (Or not, depending on culture and upkeep).
Also, even though I'm building a new stack out of Military, the rest of my cities should shift back to research. It's not like I need another stack to take Stalin, after all. Rep is obvious, but what about Pacifism?
Theocracy's upkeep is 29 GPT. The military mouseover says "50 military units: 0 GPT (Free for 24)," which makes me think that switching to Pac will cost me 26 GPT. So I swap, but it doesn't work: The upkeep is 50 GPT (meaning I have 74 military units). Not a big deal, but I'll probably swap out soon.
A bit later, I swap to Vassalage, hoping the free units would reduce the cost of Pac. It doesn't. Those are free normal units, and have no bearing on the military upkeep from Pac. I end the turnset before getting a chance to swap again, but when it comes around I'll probably go back to Theocracy / Bureaucracy.
1325: After a few turns healing, I declare on Stalin. Now I have enough cannon to bombard and attack all in one turn:
The city is nothing special. I'll gift it to Shaka.
Also, Rifling completes. I'd thought about waiting another turn to upgrade some cavalry, but I don't have the gold lying around, and with cannon, I don't really need them. Next is Communism, which will be great for conquering the other continent. (It knocks out the colony maintenance costs).
1340: Pacifism pays off with another Great Scientist. One more and I can bulb Physics.
1345: No need to heal, I march on Moscow. Spy sends it into revolt, I attack, first with sacrificial catapults, then the cannon. Another easy victory (and reduced Pacifism costs).
Stalin has 2 almost-dead units left. No reinforcements arrive. I take the city next turn:
After all those amazing cities full of wonders, this capital is kind of a letdown. But whatever, it's a good city, ton of farm land and all. Definitely worth taking 2 more cities to keep Moscow from revolting. Also, since I'm planning to farm over everything, it's probably worth pillaging the cottages.
I stop there. Stalin has more gumption than Shaka did. He'll give me around 1k gold for peace, he won't capitulate yet. So, next turnset, I'll take more of his cities.
The war with Shaka was quick. It didn't quite leave me satisfied. Let's play a bit further.
Next goal is Stalin. I thought about leaving him at friendly and going for a permanent alliance, but (1) my military is easily sufficient, and (2) I don't know how all the diplo will play out, so I'd rather go for the sure thing now and just vassal him.
I start by planning which cities to take:
Spoiler :
The ones without a dot I don't want, though I may take them anyway. St Petersberg will go to Shaka, since it already has his culture. There are some cities that would be better moved over a tile, but I want to roll this war straight into a continental war with Izzy, so it's better to take cities as they are.
My plan is to send the main stack NE from Shaka through St Petersberg to Moscow, and build a second stack in my mainland to take the Southern two cities. Shaka will go for the city on the marble, though I may need to take it for him and gift it. (Or not, depending on culture and upkeep).
Also, even though I'm building a new stack out of Military, the rest of my cities should shift back to research. It's not like I need another stack to take Stalin, after all. Rep is obvious, but what about Pacifism?
Spoiler :
Theocracy's upkeep is 29 GPT. The military mouseover says "50 military units: 0 GPT (Free for 24)," which makes me think that switching to Pac will cost me 26 GPT. So I swap, but it doesn't work: The upkeep is 50 GPT (meaning I have 74 military units). Not a big deal, but I'll probably swap out soon.
A bit later, I swap to Vassalage, hoping the free units would reduce the cost of Pac. It doesn't. Those are free normal units, and have no bearing on the military upkeep from Pac. I end the turnset before getting a chance to swap again, but when it comes around I'll probably go back to Theocracy / Bureaucracy.
1325: After a few turns healing, I declare on Stalin. Now I have enough cannon to bombard and attack all in one turn:
Spoiler :
The city is nothing special. I'll gift it to Shaka.
Spoiler :
Also, Rifling completes. I'd thought about waiting another turn to upgrade some cavalry, but I don't have the gold lying around, and with cannon, I don't really need them. Next is Communism, which will be great for conquering the other continent. (It knocks out the colony maintenance costs).
Spoiler :
1340: Pacifism pays off with another Great Scientist. One more and I can bulb Physics.
Spoiler :
1345: No need to heal, I march on Moscow. Spy sends it into revolt, I attack, first with sacrificial catapults, then the cannon. Another easy victory (and reduced Pacifism costs).
Spoiler :
Stalin has 2 almost-dead units left. No reinforcements arrive. I take the city next turn:
Spoiler :
After all those amazing cities full of wonders, this capital is kind of a letdown. But whatever, it's a good city, ton of farm land and all. Definitely worth taking 2 more cities to keep Moscow from revolting. Also, since I'm planning to farm over everything, it's probably worth pillaging the cottages.
I stop there. Stalin has more gumption than Shaka did. He'll give me around 1k gold for peace, he won't capitulate yet. So, next turnset, I'll take more of his cities.
Mikehendi
IDHEOMHRN
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- Dec 20, 2008
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- 461
GG well played. I just read this entire thread. You give a very good description of your thought process.
I like how you go in great detail at the right times (early game / important decisions), and then go back to 'normal description tempo' afterwards. ( A skill I still have to master, as well as writing somewhat fluid english
)
That makes this thread very pleasant to read.
I like how you go in great detail at the right times (early game / important decisions), and then go back to 'normal description tempo' afterwards. ( A skill I still have to master, as well as writing somewhat fluid english
)That makes this thread very pleasant to read.
OneLeggedRhino
King
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- Aug 12, 2011
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- 656
Uniting the Continent (Turns 570-574, Years 1350-1358 AD)
A couple turns into this turnset, I can swap civics again. Pacifism is costing me about 50 GPT, which is more than I want to spend. Also, everyone is in different religions -- I'm at war with the only other Hindu in the game. I almost never go with Free Religion, since +10% research isn't a big deal, but in this case it seems good, at least until the war with Stalin is over.
Seeing my turns-to-next-GP double is painful, though. I might go back to Pacifism, or Theocracy if I wind up building a lot more troops. Thoughts on what religious civic to take for now?
1358: My new stack is ready to attack Yakatenberg. With cannon vs longbows, I don't take any losses. Even the old axe wins his fight.
Not quite enough troops to take the city. It'll wait for next turn.
In the North, Smolensk is sieged down too:
It's not a city I really want, but it overlaps a lot with Moscow, so I need to take it. And this late in the game, even just a few grassland makes a worthwhile city. Again, no losses.
Before ending the turn, I always check if Stalin will capitulate. (Don't want him dragging Izzy into this before I'm ready for the continental war). And he will:
Three cities and the war is over. Didn't even clear enough space to make Moscow worth it. Normally, I'd give the cities back (since they'll constantly revolt otherwise), but there's a problem:
Stalin is at 51% land and 47% population. I can't return Moscow, or he'll be able to break free.
I see a few options:
1. Reload and don't vassal him. Like I said, the game should show you the land and pop percentages in the mouseover for capitulation, so I consider this a legit reload. Long-term, this is probably the best option. It gets me more land, and I can risk Izzy jumping in, especially since she's not prepared for war right now. But I can win the game with the cities I already have, so this really just drags things out more.
2. Grow my cities. With bio farms, most cities are at +10 food or more. I'll soon be much more populous, and have no problem holding on to him.
3. Conquer Zara Yaqob. (He's much weaker than Izzy, no gunpowder even). Use Izzy as my landing point, conquer Zara, then turn around and conquer her.
I think 2 and 3 sound good. Grow cities to hold Stalin for now, conquer Zara, and tech Combustion to prepare for war with Izzy. Hold Stalin's cities until I'm significantly bigger than him, and only gift them back once I have land from Zara. (They will riot and be unproductive, but won't flip to Stalin).
So, next turnset, I'll make Galleons, send my stack to Izzy's lands, and prepare to conquer Zara. He doesn't even have Gunpowder, so my existing stack should be plenty.
A couple turns into this turnset, I can swap civics again. Pacifism is costing me about 50 GPT, which is more than I want to spend. Also, everyone is in different religions -- I'm at war with the only other Hindu in the game. I almost never go with Free Religion, since +10% research isn't a big deal, but in this case it seems good, at least until the war with Stalin is over.
Spoiler :
Seeing my turns-to-next-GP double is painful, though. I might go back to Pacifism, or Theocracy if I wind up building a lot more troops. Thoughts on what religious civic to take for now?
1358: My new stack is ready to attack Yakatenberg. With cannon vs longbows, I don't take any losses. Even the old axe wins his fight.
Spoiler :
Not quite enough troops to take the city. It'll wait for next turn.
In the North, Smolensk is sieged down too:
Spoiler :
It's not a city I really want, but it overlaps a lot with Moscow, so I need to take it. And this late in the game, even just a few grassland makes a worthwhile city. Again, no losses.
Spoiler :
Before ending the turn, I always check if Stalin will capitulate. (Don't want him dragging Izzy into this before I'm ready for the continental war). And he will:
Spoiler :
Three cities and the war is over. Didn't even clear enough space to make Moscow worth it. Normally, I'd give the cities back (since they'll constantly revolt otherwise), but there's a problem:
Spoiler :
Stalin is at 51% land and 47% population. I can't return Moscow, or he'll be able to break free.
I see a few options:
1. Reload and don't vassal him. Like I said, the game should show you the land and pop percentages in the mouseover for capitulation, so I consider this a legit reload. Long-term, this is probably the best option. It gets me more land, and I can risk Izzy jumping in, especially since she's not prepared for war right now. But I can win the game with the cities I already have, so this really just drags things out more.
2. Grow my cities. With bio farms, most cities are at +10 food or more. I'll soon be much more populous, and have no problem holding on to him.
Spoiler :
3. Conquer Zara Yaqob. (He's much weaker than Izzy, no gunpowder even). Use Izzy as my landing point, conquer Zara, then turn around and conquer her.
Spoiler :
I think 2 and 3 sound good. Grow cities to hold Stalin for now, conquer Zara, and tech Combustion to prepare for war with Izzy. Hold Stalin's cities until I'm significantly bigger than him, and only gift them back once I have land from Zara. (They will riot and be unproductive, but won't flip to Stalin).
So, next turnset, I'll make Galleons, send my stack to Izzy's lands, and prepare to conquer Zara. He doesn't even have Gunpowder, so my existing stack should be plenty.
OneLeggedRhino
King
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- 656
Thanks Mikehendi, glad you're enjoying it
vranasm
Deity
OR is good option if it is well spread in new cities. It's high cost civic though and it's questionable the number of gpt you would spare that way.
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Physics in Three (Turns 574-602, Years 1358-1414 AD)
Last weekend, I got the island under my control. So I have three goals now:
1368: Communism completes. I think about saving the GSpy for a golden age, but I'm focused on growing my cities (not running specialists), so that's not immediately useful. So he settles the in Thebes.
What about the Communism civic? Let's check finances:
Hmmm. Mercantilism is probably better, since I don't have many workshops, and since my trade routes are still good. (You can trade with vassals even under Merc). Should have checked that before teching it. But the GSpy is nice, and I'll use the civic too, eventually.
I swap to Organized Religion to build all these observatories, but leave the other civics where they are.
Next is Steam, Railroad and Combustion, which will let me dominate the seas.
1374: My population has grown enough to keep Stalin under my thumb easily. So I gift the worst city back to him:
If it wouldn't revolt, I'd keep it. But I don't want to devote 10 units to keeping the city pacified, and it's not worth having if it riots every few turns. Remember, with no tech trades, Stalin needs to research his own techs to be useful, so I'd rather he have the city.
Through this turnset, the other 2 cities riot some, too. Moscow won't flip back to Stalin, but the other one is under Shaka's culture, so I think it can flip. (It was owned by Shaka at one point, so I don't know if that invalidates flipping.) The game won't let me gift it to him, though, so I just remove all the troops and hope it revolts to him.
1376: I finally get research vision on Izzy. She's 3 turns from Physics. Somehow, I hadn't realized she could research it. She's missing Education, so I just thought of her as being badly behind, but it doesn't matter for Physics.
Three turns is tight. Can I beat her? I do have those 2 Great Scientists lying around:
SM is 20k. I'd planned to wait for a third GS, then bulb the whole thing. (At the time, a bulb was about 6.5k beakers). With just two GSs, that leaves me 5k short, which is more than I can produce even at 100% research. But what if I devote my entire empire to beakers?
That's 1800 BPT. Just enough. I land Physics in 1380, and Izzy doesn't even bother completing it.
Then I swap back to Pacifism to get some more GP, and land a Great Engineer in 1392. Seems like a good time to grab Ironworks in my naval production city:
Throughout the turnset, I've been transporting my stack to the other continent. It's 3 turns by galleon, and with 4 galleons working now, it's just a few more turns until they're all across the ocean:
That's about half my stack.
The plan was to attack Zara, vassal him, then use that as my launching point to attack Izzy. But then:
Izzy declares on Zara. OK, change of plans: Open borders with Zara, declare on Izzy, get a first strike on her stack, then crush her. Hopefully, she stays focused on Zara and never launch a naval offensive against me. And hopefully I can get my troops over there and join the war before he capitulates.
1404: Steam Power finishes. Remember how we thought there was a hidden resource on the hill 1N of Thebes? Yeah...
1414: My stack is almost ready to go. Last shipment of troops arrives this turn, and you can see my frigates around the continent on the minimap:
And Zara capitulates to Izzy.
Well that sucks. I'd seen him lose a couple cities earlier, and had thought about making my move before getting my whole stack to the other continent, but I was sloppy.
Now I'll need to do a proper naval war, landing into hostile territory, which is a lot of micro. I'm just not inspired enough by this game to finish it. Basically, there's no way for Izzy to win at this point, but it will take a while to tech and build up to the fleet I need to win.
Here's the tech situation:
Izzy is missing Education, Liberalism, and Communism; Chemistry, Steel, Bio and Steam; and Physics (she could get it in 1) and Rifling (her current research, done in 8). That's nine techs! An entire age, basically. I can easily come at her with Combustion ships, Infantry and Artillery while she has Rifles.
And the longer I wait, the farther ahead I get. Here's the demo screen:
I'm #1 in everything category matters aside from soldier count. And it's not even close. 60% more GNP, 2x the hammers and 2x the crops. Winning is just a formality now.
So I'm going to call that game. It's won, if I just slog it out for a hundred more turns. But I'd rather start a new game for the holidays.
Last weekend, I got the island under my control. So I have three goals now:
- Grow cities to keep Stalin under my thumb. (If possible, I'd like to gift his cities back to him, since they'll revolt constantly and I don't want to leave troops there).
- Move my stack to Izzy's lands, in preparation for war with Zara.
- Work on a navy to protect my island from Izzy. This is a combination of building Frigates and teching Combustion.
1368: Communism completes. I think about saving the GSpy for a golden age, but I'm focused on growing my cities (not running specialists), so that's not immediately useful. So he settles the in Thebes.
What about the Communism civic? Let's check finances:
Spoiler :
Hmmm. Mercantilism is probably better, since I don't have many workshops, and since my trade routes are still good. (You can trade with vassals even under Merc). Should have checked that before teching it. But the GSpy is nice, and I'll use the civic too, eventually.
I swap to Organized Religion to build all these observatories, but leave the other civics where they are.
Spoiler :
Next is Steam, Railroad and Combustion, which will let me dominate the seas.
1374: My population has grown enough to keep Stalin under my thumb easily. So I gift the worst city back to him:
Spoiler :
If it wouldn't revolt, I'd keep it. But I don't want to devote 10 units to keeping the city pacified, and it's not worth having if it riots every few turns. Remember, with no tech trades, Stalin needs to research his own techs to be useful, so I'd rather he have the city.
Through this turnset, the other 2 cities riot some, too. Moscow won't flip back to Stalin, but the other one is under Shaka's culture, so I think it can flip. (It was owned by Shaka at one point, so I don't know if that invalidates flipping.) The game won't let me gift it to him, though, so I just remove all the troops and hope it revolts to him.
1376: I finally get research vision on Izzy. She's 3 turns from Physics. Somehow, I hadn't realized she could research it. She's missing Education, so I just thought of her as being badly behind, but it doesn't matter for Physics.
Three turns is tight. Can I beat her? I do have those 2 Great Scientists lying around:
Spoiler :
SM is 20k. I'd planned to wait for a third GS, then bulb the whole thing. (At the time, a bulb was about 6.5k beakers). With just two GSs, that leaves me 5k short, which is more than I can produce even at 100% research. But what if I devote my entire empire to beakers?
Spoiler :
That's 1800 BPT. Just enough. I land Physics in 1380, and Izzy doesn't even bother completing it.
Spoiler :
Then I swap back to Pacifism to get some more GP, and land a Great Engineer in 1392. Seems like a good time to grab Ironworks in my naval production city:
Spoiler :
Throughout the turnset, I've been transporting my stack to the other continent. It's 3 turns by galleon, and with 4 galleons working now, it's just a few more turns until they're all across the ocean:
Spoiler :
That's about half my stack.
The plan was to attack Zara, vassal him, then use that as my launching point to attack Izzy. But then:
Spoiler :
Izzy declares on Zara. OK, change of plans: Open borders with Zara, declare on Izzy, get a first strike on her stack, then crush her. Hopefully, she stays focused on Zara and never launch a naval offensive against me. And hopefully I can get my troops over there and join the war before he capitulates.
1404: Steam Power finishes. Remember how we thought there was a hidden resource on the hill 1N of Thebes? Yeah...
Spoiler :
1414: My stack is almost ready to go. Last shipment of troops arrives this turn, and you can see my frigates around the continent on the minimap:
Spoiler :
And Zara capitulates to Izzy.
Spoiler :
Well that sucks. I'd seen him lose a couple cities earlier, and had thought about making my move before getting my whole stack to the other continent, but I was sloppy.
Now I'll need to do a proper naval war, landing into hostile territory, which is a lot of micro. I'm just not inspired enough by this game to finish it. Basically, there's no way for Izzy to win at this point, but it will take a while to tech and build up to the fleet I need to win.
Here's the tech situation:
Spoiler :
Izzy is missing Education, Liberalism, and Communism; Chemistry, Steel, Bio and Steam; and Physics (she could get it in 1) and Rifling (her current research, done in 8). That's nine techs! An entire age, basically. I can easily come at her with Combustion ships, Infantry and Artillery while she has Rifles.
And the longer I wait, the farther ahead I get. Here's the demo screen:
Spoiler :
I'm #1 in everything category matters aside from soldier count. And it's not even close. 60% more GNP, 2x the hammers and 2x the crops. Winning is just a formality now.
So I'm going to call that game. It's won, if I just slog it out for a hundred more turns. But I'd rather start a new game for the holidays.
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