Rhye's Catapult

[Rhye]

well, yes, 400 turns may be too compressed

EDIT:
Although we still can play with tech and unit costs

i mean is it safe for loading times?

 

[V. Soma]

Rhye,

Please in the nex map swap sheep on main British Island with pigs/cow,
maybe then Ireland gets settled.
Maybe also put a fish on the west Irish coast and not at England...

Also:

Strengthen Persia' defense army at start.

Can Egypt be more active in the ancient times?

Rome is too weak...

 

[Rhye]

This population difference is striking...

And the problem with big pop is that these Asians
make a lot of specialists in the cities which give them advantage on many levels...

EDIT:

If we want only China to be punished,
then total population and number of cities may be combined as factor

maybe a cap to size 12 until a certain building, like in civ3?
the problem is, I don't know how to do that

 

[V. Soma]

i mean is it safe for loading times?

You mean the 500 turns? Yes, safe, as far as I can see.

It is strange, but there is a point in the game, when it is slowest,
and it is not the final phase!
In both my tests, the curve falls at the end.

Maybe the big wars are not at the end? With most units and civs involved?

 

[Barak]

034 test to 1200BC

China has spread nicely to start with three cities, as has India.

Egypt has built its first settler, yet has not moved it out of Thebes (eventhough it was built at the same time as the first Chinese settler).

Egypt founded both Hinduism and Judaism, while Buddhism was founded in Delhi.

Greece started storng as always, and has just built its first city when it was learned that the Barbarian city of Tyre built Stonehenge

I like the changes to the map in 034, and see that the changes to England allow for London to settle better (in theory) while not losing access to the sea.

 

[Barak]

034 test to 10 AD

Strange not to see 1 AD as a date.

Mongolia did not spawn, did their starting date change?

Greece took none of the barb cities in the middle east, but Persia took Ur and Babylon.

Egypt is starting to spread, now haveing built 4 cities. China is huge...7 cities already and growing.

300 AD--Barbarians strike back!

Persia took Jerusalem, only to have it taken back from them, only to retake the retaken.

Then then lost 2 other cities (reazed to the ground) including their capital to Barb horse archers. Susa is now thier capital in the location of Mecca (won't stay there for long I fear).

Greece also hada city razed, while 2 Chinese settlers were destroyed.


610AD

Poor persia The barbarians are not letting them hold any cities, and then the Arabs spawned taking Ur as its capital, and flipping Babylon to their cause. Persia only holds Susa and Jerusalem now.

Greece is not fairing well. Twice barbarians destroyed cities they had built in the balkans, and are now ready to sack Sparta, built just west of Constantinople.

Mongolia never spawned, or perhaps were eaten by wild desert animals?

730AD

Here is a strange one. The Spanish spawned with a nice stack of units only to be destroyed in total by the barbarians coming out of Cadiz in the next turn. Perhaps this was also the fate of the Mongols?

And in the very next turn, after getting a message that the Spanish civ had been destroyed, the were resurected with Cadiz as their capital and having flipped a Roman city built in the far east of Iberia (not really near Cadiz)

 

[SilverKnight]

Hey all! Glad to see the new Rhye Mod up and working already. I don't have much time, as my laptop is in the shop and the computer lab here on campus closes shortly, but:

1) PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE let me help! I'll test, write for the Civilopedia, ANYTHING to get things going faster towards the end product! Not much of a whiz with modding (obviously), and my laptop's Pentium 8800 has a bad history of overclocking/overheating on Civ 4, but I can do the little stuff that still needs to get done, including testing. I'm a pretty decent writer, so I could add to the Civilopedia, as well.

2) I'm out for a few weeks. By the time I get my physically POS Gateway back, it'll be crunch time for finals (wish I could up my research rate more, but I can't run a negative budget on sleep for more than a week or so ), but after that I can devote plenty of time to Project C (haven't had the chance to read the whole naming debate; last I heard it was Catupult and Cannon; I liked Catupult and Trebuchet for abbreviation purposes). I'll be lurking until then, and will joyously announce my return to the world of Civ in a month.

This is TOO exciting! Glad to have the old gang at it for a new version!

SilverKnight

 

[Barak]

830 AD

I am pleased to report that Paris has become the French capital, Orleans was settled near Amsterdam location, and London was setttled in its correct space by the English.

Berlin and Moscow were founded doon after, and the once empty European lands seem quite full now.

With all the struggels for the middle east, 2 of the original cites have failed to be taken!

Egypt, once thriving with 4 cities has been reduced to 2 by barbarian invasion....yet in the far east China, Japan and India seem to grow stronger by the turn.

 

[OzzyKP]

Barak, Mongolia should spawn in like the 1100-1300's, so just keep waiting.

 

[V. Soma]

Heh, I started modding

I lured into the python file for the first time in my life
and gave Persia plus 1 immortal and 2 archers

Also 2 archers and 1 praet for Rome.

I also did some change to the map (England, Greece) and now try it...

EDIT

The units for Persia seems to be a good move - Persia survived fine...

Rome was not much helped, barbs are way strong

But to make Greece found Constantinople is a hard task
Also to get England settle Ireland

Gotta go to workplace - no more playing till evening, if any will be

 

[V. Soma]

Ladies and gentlemen!

I have an idea...

But first the background:

I am sick of the AI that:

1. puts cities to places I don't want the AI to take
(e.g. "Why don't you make use of that fish???)
2. does not make use of good land within own border...
(e.g. Rome at south of the Alps)
3. not daring to settle right beside foreign border
(e.g. in Europe)
4. not daring to settle where there are not many "free" tiles
(e.g. Sardinia in case of Rome)

And

Building settlers uses up many, many turns, while the game is short,
either with 400 or 500 turns

Plus

This mod Rhye creates here is - in my opinion - kind of a scenario
with its history simulation and timed civs.

SO, THE IDEA:

Let it be so that civs DO NOT HAVE SETTLERS at all in the "first phase" of the game!

I imagine that when a civ borns, it gets a Captal city with a defender or what we want,
and then new cities are "born" (with defender unit) timed as coded...
It can be in any ways, "x" turns after the first city,
but of course we can give more than city at the same time...

Important: cities could not be destroyed, razed!
This way it would be kind of a scenario, but I think it is along the concept we want here.

Barbs can of course take the city and a civ might fall,
then all the civ's cities might be barbarian...
Other civs might come and take the barb cities, naturally...

In the "second phase" of the game, there would be colonization:
here civs could build settlers and send them into the regions coded for them...
And they could of course conquer colonies in other regions by force...

With the fact that this way many cities would have exact calculated plot,
the city could get a new name as history goes,
like change of Constantinople to Istambul...

The human player (HP), well, we have to think about it,
freedom might be given to HP, but we might restrict HP settling to a coded area too,
HP might get free settlers at given turns, well, we can come up with ideas here

Any opinion?

 

[Rhye]

Hey all! Glad to see the new Rhye Mod up and working already. I don't have much time, as my laptop is in the shop and the computer lab here on campus closes shortly, but:

1) PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE let me help! I'll test, write for the Civilopedia, ANYTHING to get things going faster towards the end product! Not much of a whiz with modding (obviously), and my laptop's Pentium 8800 has a bad history of overclocking/overheating on Civ 4, but I can do the little stuff that still needs to get done, including testing. I'm a pretty decent writer, so I could add to the Civilopedia, as well.

2) I'm out for a few weeks. By the time I get my physically POS Gateway back, it'll be crunch time for finals (wish I could up my research rate more, but I can't run a negative budget on sleep for more than a week or so ), but after that I can devote plenty of time to Project C (haven't had the chance to read the whole naming debate; last I heard it was Catupult and Cannon; I liked Catupult and Trebuchet for abbreviation purposes). I'll be lurking until then, and will joyously announce my return to the world of Civ in a month.

This is TOO exciting! Glad to have the old gang at it for a new version!

SilverKnight

welcome back! You can get the file, it's somewhere in the previous page.
And in a couple of hours I'll post v0.36 too.

Reading these last pages you'll get an idea of what we are arguing about. No civilopedia is needed at this time

 

[V. Soma]

yeah, a new version "in a couple of hours"

 

[Lachlan]

+1 for impeach razing cities

 

[Winterfell]

Sorry, V Soma, but I don't like your idea. It seems way too restricting to me. I mean, it is a game that is supposed to stimulate history and probabilities for alternative histories, but how could you achieve that if the game always goes on the same line? If the AI will do the same things in every game it will spoil the fun. And if you will restrict the playeras well then it would be no fun at all!
I think we should do our best to make the game feel like history, but should also consider that it may have history change in every other game.
Besides I think we should start testing while playing, because the human player has a big effect on how the AI acts, in my opinion.

 

[Brave Jay]

I have a suggestion for China being too big and powerful. Why not remove several of the types of food resources and thereby limit the amount of health china can have. this should slow down their growth until trading. Can you make it to where civs can't trade food resources until a certain time? Or maybe just china. anyway, just a suggestion.

 

[Brave Jay]

or maybe you could just make china have a bonus of un healthiness so it would struggle more to grow its population

 

[V. Soma]

Sorry, V Soma, but I don't like your idea. It seems way too restricting to me. I mean, it is a game that is supposed to stimulate history and probabilities for alternative histories, but how could you achieve that if the game always goes on the same line? If the AI will do the same things in every game it will spoil the fun. And if you will restrict the playeras well then it would be no fun at all!
I think we should do our best to make the game feel like history, but should also consider that it may have history change in every other game.
Besides I think we should start testing while playing, because the human player has a big effect on how the AI acts, in my opinion.

I accept your reaction.

I just say let's think about the details:

1.
"game always goes on the same line"

Well, AI puts the first 3-4 cities the same way always, anyways...
And if a 3rd or 4th city is placed one tile "away" in every 5th case,
is that mean great excitement?

And for almost all civs - especially in Europe - the homeland cities are at the same plot, always.

So here I don't see restriction much.

2.
"if you will restrict the playeras well then it would be no fun at all! "

I do not clearly understand the word "playeras" here, or do you mean the "second phase"?
Hm, I just say, let's face it:
Things go exploration again with galleons and colonies, isn't it so?
Or do we want Japanese cities in Siberia? Romans in Scandinavia? English settlers in the Baltics?

I think that after claiming the homelands, there could be WAR - getting land that way...

And, yes, a "second phase" could be a creation of "settlers/emigrants",
who go and freely explore the world on ships...
Maybe, if we don't want any restrictions there, that can be all fine...

This way we can opimalize the game better,
say, giving China only a set number of cities in the "first phase", for instance...

 

[V. Soma]

and about the human player:

In this scenario-like idea I try to outline,
I imagine that the HP would start to play in the turn the civ he plays is born in the game,
i.e. if you play Rome, then the game would "play itself" to the point BC 750,
then you enter the game and start playing...
Yes, I know, it would mean less number of turns to play,
but I believe it would be exciting

It would not be the same starting situation each time you play,
since the game is played up to the point you enter,
and say you as Rome would face a bit different Greece or Persia each time.
Especially if choose Russia to play...

-

OK, I do not say I have the best and only possible idea
I just think it could a version of the Catapult (if not the main game)

 

[V. Soma]

or maybe you could just make china have a bonus of un healthiness so it would struggle more to grow its population

Yes, there could be a Project given to China at start,
and that could have the hindering effect built in it...

(a Project, because Wonders can be destroyed)