Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Chukchi Husky]

I have one more question for you, Chukchi.

I noticed an Encyclopedia that says that Babylon was the capital city of BABYLONIA, not Babylon.
It's quite difficult for me, because in italian it's simply "Babilonia".

So, it this encyclopedia correct and Civ3 wrong?

Babylon is the capital of Babylonia and later the capital of the Chaldean empire. (The Babylonian for Babylon is Bab-ilu)

 

[Rhye]

So if this is the fact, I'll change the nation name to Babylonia, for the basic version, too. I'll add it to the next patch list.

 

[Blasphemous]

I would suggest that wonders that were in reality built in the capital (the one in the game, not necesarily the real one) should require Palace in their city so there's a better chance of realism.
How about the effects for Temple Mount?
What I suggested was 2 happy faces in its city (and/or possibly one content in all other cities on the continent if you want) plus very high culture rating of 6 or 8 and can become tourist attraction.
I'd suggest something similar for the black stone of Mecca.

 

[karmina]

Thanks for the great mod, I really love it!

I must say though that playing any European civ is far to easy if you make the right starting moves: Since Settlers are 4x more expensive, you just need to focus on getting archers, and perhaps barracks and one worker. By the time you got 4-5 archers, your neigbors normally have finished their first settler, moving away from their capital with a couple of warriors. The idiots. Because my archers are only two turns from their capital, where normally only one spearman or 2 warriors are left behind. After that you've got a big advantage over everyone else (because EVERY AI builds expensive settlers), tech trading does the rest.
I did that on C3C 1.22, RoC 2.62, Emperor difficulty, as both the Germans and Spain. As Bismarck I managed to completely take out Netherlands and France before Iron Working, gaining 4 cities for free. Austria fell soon after. As Isabella I captured Lisboa at first and then lazily walked up towards Rome with 4 archers. Funny enough, Rome moved out with their first settler and two warriors the very turn I arrived...

So here are some suggestions to avoid the early conquests (on Emperor at least, haven't played on God or Sid yet) :
- make Archers and Swordsmen more expensive
- give everyone one "Palace Guard" (4 defense, 0 movement)
- if at all possible, prevent AI from building a settler on turn one...maybe make settlers generally available later?!

Now, what are all you people here talking about version 0.22 ?!? I couldn't find anything else but 2.62.

 

[Blasphemous]

karmina, we're talking about the alpha of the expansion pack for the mod.
Rhye, I just realized something... Shouldn't Jerusalem be constructed on a Hills square? The whole area here is nothing but hills and hills and hills... =S And most of Israel is either hills, desert, or grassland (up north)... In your map it's all plains, which we have a very little bit of.

 

[Rhye]

I just realized something... Shouldn't Jerusalem be constructed on a Hills square? The whole area here is nothing but hills and hills and hills... =S And most of Israel is either hills, desert, or grassland (up north)... In your map it's all plains, which we have a very little bit of.

There's a hill just next to it. A hill in the starting location will deform the coastline (try and see)

 

[Rhye]

Thanks for the great mod, I really love it!

I must say though that playing any European civ is far to easy if you make the right starting moves: Since Settlers are 4x more expensive, you just need to focus on getting archers, and perhaps barracks and one worker. By the time you got 4-5 archers, your neigbors normally have finished their first settler, moving away from their capital with a couple of warriors. The idiots. Because my archers are only two turns from their capital, where normally only one spearman or 2 warriors are left behind. After that you've got a big advantage over everyone else (because EVERY AI builds expensive settlers), tech trading does the rest.
I did that on C3C 1.22, RoC 2.62, Emperor difficulty, as both the Germans and Spain. As Bismarck I managed to completely take out Netherlands and France before Iron Working, gaining 4 cities for free. Austria fell soon after. As Isabella I captured Lisboa at first and then lazily walked up towards Rome with 4 archers. Funny enough, Rome moved out with their first settler and two warriors the very turn I arrived...

So here are some suggestions to avoid the early conquests (on Emperor at least, haven't played on God or Sid yet) :
- make Archers and Swordsmen more expensive
- give everyone one "Palace Guard" (4 defense, 0 movement)
- if at all possible, prevent AI from building a settler on turn one...maybe make settlers generally available later?!

Now, what are all you people here talking about version 0.22 ?!? I couldn't find anything else but 2.62.

Thanks for your comments.

The problem you mentioned is well-known.
AI seems quite stupid, and some adjustments were already made:
- warrior code not available at the beginning for anyone
- palace gives 30% defense.


With the expansion pack there will not be a 2/1/1 unit.
The first unit with attack 2 will be the spearman (2/2/1), which will come a bit later in the tech tree.
Instead the archer will be 1/2/1, and I could even give warrior code now as a starting tech to some civs in danger like Netherlands, Portugal, etc.

 

[Blasphemous]

Bleh, for some reason the editor won't let me put a hill there unless there's a hill in the old place as well or grassland all around. o_O
I see what you mean about the coastline... Can't you use some LM to fix it or simply alter the way the graphics look in this kind of place?
Also, there should be a mountain tile around where Israel's northern border is in reality... There's a large mountain range there. Any chance of having the Jordan river is as well?
(All of these matters don't really bother me that much, just nitpicking a bit. =P)

 

[Rhye]

Bleh, for some reason the editor won't let me put a hill there unless there's a hill in the old place as well or grassland all around. o_O
I see what you mean about the coastline... Can't you use some LM to fix it or simply alter the way the graphics look in this kind of place?
Also, there should be a mountain tile around where Israel's northern border is in reality... There's a large mountain range there. Any chance of having the Jordan river is as well?
(All of these matters don't really bother me that much, just nitpicking a bit. =P)

No, sorry.
A river there would create flood plains.
LM terrains wouldn't change the situation. The coastline would become a promontory.

 

[karmina]

The problem you mentioned is well-known.
AI seems quite stupid, and some adjustments were already made:
- warrior code not available at the beginning for anyone
- palace gives 30% defense.

But that's in 2.62 already, right? Doesn't really help much.
So there isn't a way to change AI decisions regarding settlers, I suppose.

With the expansion pack there will not be a 2/1/1 unit.
The first unit with attack 2 will be the spearman (2/2/1), which will come a bit later in the tech tree.
Instead the archer will be 1/2/1, and I could even give warrior code now as a starting tech to some civs in danger like Netherlands, Portugal, etc.

Nice to hear!
Is there an ETA for the expansion pack already...?
I'm really looking forward to it - just make sure your mod doesn't get too overcrowded like RaR. Looking at the tech tree of RaR is fun, but playing the game until the end is not. Also it can get pretty unbalanced.

 

[Rhye]

Is there an ETA for the expansion pack already...?
I'm really looking forward to it - just make sure your mod doesn't get too overcrowded like RaR. Looking at the tech tree of RaR is fun, but playing the game until the end is not. Also it can get pretty unbalanced.

Our goal is the end of the month. I'll do my best to achieve this.

You can be sure that it won't be overcrowded.
You'll get the same number of added things, but nothing redundant.
You won't be able to build 500 units and research 500 techs in the intricated tree. There will be more diversification.
A 2nd UU for each civ, religious traits, new wonders, new upgrade lines (the archers thing is a part of it), new tech tree and flavour units are the main scheme.

 

[Jaguar]

I have one more question for you, Chukchi.

I noticed an Encyclopedia that says that Babylon was the capital city of BABYLONIA, not Babylon.
It's quite difficult for me, because in italian it's simply "Babilonia".

So, it this encyclopedia correct and Civ3 wrong?

In English, the civilization is always referred to as Babylon.

Babylonia refers more to the land than the actual nation.

So, to put it simply, Babylonia is the land where Babylonians come from. The Babylonians were the citizens of Babylon.

 

[Horton]

I think 3/5/1 is too much defensive power for swiss mercs. No offensive unit will be able to touch them for almost a full age.

Samurai would be best at 4/2/1 I think. That way it is a potent attacker and can still replace spearmen as a defender.

 

[Khift]

A while ago we were talking about hot air balloons and where they should be on the tech tree, right?

Well, I'd recently read about a book published around 1405 featuring all kinds of war machines, including hot air balloons.

I don't know if they were actually in use at that point, but they did have the technology to build them in the 15th century.

 

[Rhye]

You'd leave Japan with spearmen until crossbowmen.

Now it is:
3/3/1 standard pikeman
4/3/1 tercio
3/4/1 samurai (+1 hp)
4/4/1 swiss mercenary (no iron, +10 gold)

I propose another solution again:

3/3/1 standard pikeman
4/3/1 tercio
4/4/1 swiss mercenary (no iron, +10 gold)
4/4/1 samurai (+1 hp, +10 gold)

 

[Rhye]

A while ago we were talking about hot air balloons and where they should be on the tech tree, right?

Well, I'd recently read about a book published around 1405 featuring all kinds of war machines, including hot air balloons.

I don't know if they were actually in use at that point, but they did have the technology to build them in the 15th century.

That's true, but what if we consider Leonardo's inventions?
I think they should be placed when they were there has been a first consistent use.

Instead, the problem is about Zeppelin.
It was supposed to replace baloon, but they come much later. IMO they're better replacing bomber, with lower stats but come much earlier.

 

[Horton]

4/4/1 +1 hp is ungodly tough for that era. What attacker unit will really have a chance against them? Remember how incredibly strong we found the 3/3/1 +1 hp legions to be? This is the same situation.

Samurai, imo, should be a strong attacker type with decent defense. Muskets come quickly enough after chivalry so having to stick with a 2 defense unit for a bit longer is a good trade off for that extra hit point and attacking power.

4/2/1 +1 hp also helps balance Japan vs China. With 4/2/1 +1 hp samurai against 4/2/2 riders, both civs will be hard pressed to dominate the other.

 

[Blasphemous]

Waitasec... RoC, unlike plain Civ, doesn't need all UUs to be completely different from one another (because in plain Civ there are very few things differentiating nations other than the UU... In RoC you've got location which makes a huge difference)... So the Samurai can have the same stats as Tercio (only with +1 HP and +10 cost). That would make its defense good enough to last for a while but not too much for other attackers to handle. Also remember that HP bonuses multiply your stats.

 

[Rhye]

I'd like to differentiate them.
And I can't see why current settings are so bad.
You say that 4/4/1 +1 hp is too strong, but you said that 3/4/1 +1 hp was too weak. IMO it was ok.

There's only one reason that I can see.
It could be argued that Japan hasn't horses near, so it needs a 4 points-attacker.
Then it could be swapped with the Tercio:

3/3/1 standard pikeman
3/4/1 tercio
4/3/1 samurai (no hp bonus, it's an excellent unit anyway)
4/4/1 swiss mercenary (no iron, +10 gold)

 

[Blasphemous]

Look, Samurais are some of the most awesome warriors of history. Seems to me they deserve the extra HP bonus to represent how elite they are, and the extra cost to represent the fact they were not ever present in the millions. I don't exactly know what the Tercio is so I can't say anything about its stats.