[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[bbbt]

It will be interesting to see if this is more than release weekend enthusiasm. Here's the steamchart graph with the player numbers for civ V and VI for the past month:
http://steamcharts.com/cmp/289070,8930#1m

This weekend hit ~80k which is about half of Civ 6 vanilla's post launch peak of 160k. And about double the previous weekend's average player base of like 40k.

So that would indicated R&F moved between 25%-50% of the original civ 6 launch sales. I'd probably guess it was a little closer to the 50% side - maybe 40-45% - as I'd assume the regular players are more likely to buy it.

That seems like good numbers to me, but I dunno how well expansions usually sell though.

 

[agonistes]

All loyalty modifiers are on the city, not on the building tile
RNDY will show under “other”
If you have a city on home continent but the RNDY is off continent it counts as +2
Hopefully that’s sorted you out? If not just ask, one has rather a lot of Victorian expertise
Playing a game a day with her ATM.


This is becoming too obvious... @Magil first raised this, I’ll start playing some diplo games, those hidden modifiers have always been there as far as I can tell. Half a year ago I had just the same issues and it’s not about war as far as I can tell, it can just be because you are too close to them or winning or too stronger an army. However, there has always been ways around it given time so I’ll try out some tricks I know, will be a few days before I can comment more.

These 'hidden modifiers' were there well before the patch came out.

 

[Victoria]

These 'hidden modifiers' were there well before the patch came out.

Including the loyalty modifier mentioned in the first line?.. and the next 3?
I was just clarifying as someone asked, no biggy

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm happy with the new civs. They seem to have personality, aside from maybe the Mapuche leader I suppose.

 

[agonistes]

Including the loyalty modifier mentioned in the first line?.. and the next 3?
I was just clarifying as someone asked, no biggy

No, obviously. The relationship modifiers. You know this.

An early dow will impact the rest of the game. You will get less on trades, more dows against you, harder to get alliances, and so forth.

 

[leandrombraz]

This is becoming too obvious... @Magil first raised this, I’ll start playing some diplo games, those hidden modifiers have always been there as far as I can tell. Half a year ago I had just the same issues and it’s not about war as far as I can tell, it can just be because you are too close to them or winning or too stronger an army. However, there has always been ways around it given time so I’ll try out some tricks I know, will be a few days before I can comment more.

When you test it, try liberating cities, I think it have to do with liberation. The other match before R&F where I had a similar issue, I went on a liberation spree to get CSs back into the game. I conquered two cities (classical era) and got rid of the little penalty I got with liberation and by giving a city back. I felt like I was being treated like a warmonger for the rest of the game, with really bad trade deals. Maybe you actually get a penalty when you liberate but it stay hidden and never fade.

 

[Victoria]

An early dow will impact the rest of the game. You will get less on trades, more dows against you, harder to get alliances, and so forth.

Yes ... WE 'know' this but we have no proof. Yes there is nagative modifiers but others are saying this is seriously worse.

When you test it, try liberating cities, I think it have to do with liberation. The other match before R&F where I had a similar issue,

.. So you are saying liberating causes distrust?

 

[Quis]

I just had a strange situation with the emergency system. Pedro and Jayavarman have both been my former allies, but still with friendly modifiers. Now they decided on a joint war against me (maybe because I'm winning the space race ). After the declaration of war, both cases became a betrayal emergency.
And the crazy thing is, that Pedro was invited (and joined) to the emergency against Jayavarman. As a result, we are at peace despite the previous declaration of war and the emergency against Pedro is already running although I can not fight against him because of the Jayavarman emergency. A vicious circle.

I thought that they said, they will arrange it so, that several emergencies would not happen simultaneously.

 

[hum4n_err0r]

Absolutely loving the new expansion. Played it all Thursday night, all Friday, all Saturday and all Sunday. Returning to work today was a shock.

The new alliance features are great, very beneficial to play nice now. I thought I’d get annoyed by being pushed into wars when an ally declares or is declared against but I enjoy having something to use my standing army for in the late game for a change (I usually play peaceful mid-late game).

I thought emergencies would be a pain or pointless but so far they’ve added an extra mini game to whatever my current objective is. Like the above it’s nice to get to use my army towards the late game.

Golden ages are good, still getting my head around how to ensure I trigger one, or even ensure a dark age (some of those dark age cards are huge). Currently just blasting through the game without trying to get any specific Age.

Growing cities now has far more benefit (at least up to size 10) with the change to Rationalism etc. I don’t like using the terms tall and wide in Civ 6, as I think in this iteration the more cities the better and the bigger the better, all depends on what amenities the dirt gives you.

 

[Mojo85]

My two favorite mods that still work with R&F that I don’t see mentioned at city states start with walls and no AI start advantage. They’re both so useful for deity. The city state walls especially because it stops the constant capturing of them and they’re actually around to impact the game by the time the industrial and later era hits.

The no AI start advantage keeps the combat bonuses (and production bonuses I think as well) but eliminates the extra settlers, units and completed techs the AI starts with. I use it if I want to play a more peaceful game and not get just overrun with 8 archers and warriors at turn 30 when I’m barely into my 3rd slinger

 

[Eramas]

I didn't see a single emergency since the release, feels bad.

 

[Duuk]

I didn't see a single emergency since the release, feels bad.

I have. Both as a potential member and as a target. Since I tend to play on very small maps, they're kind of toothless. Might play on a bigger map to see if they work on there.

 

[Victoria]

If you are unaware, loyalty pressure formula found including capital difference.
Loyalty and taking cities

Also a few other things in there inlcuing equal pressure between 2 civs leaves the city neutral until one grows in pop
Will try a few spy things tonight around loyalty

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Could someone please enlighten me how is Greece able to move troops into my territory without open borders? We used to be allies in the past, but not anymore...(quite the opposite actually)

Maybe it's a bug like open borders still active despite not in alliance anymore?

(Note: it happened multiple times)

 

[Victoria]

how is Greece able to move troops into my territory without open borders?

Well there is no emergency... odd

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I kind of wish I would see other civs' Historic Moments, or at least their significant ones. That would be much more interesting than the gossip stuff that scrolls by when the AI takes their turns.

 

[ncat]

I just had a strange situation. Playing first game, as Rome, on second era, a dark age. Lautaro puts his second city right on the border of Rome. Tell him don't do that. Go to war, take city. he makes peace as do His allies Brazil, and Nubia. We join together killing the local barbarians. Even get a thanks screen from him (new?). Barbarian appears on the tile just outside where our cities join. I kill it with the duty archer. Lautaro declares war on me. Just made peace with Nubia, Brazil earlier. Now it's an emergency and all 3 are against me. So Nubia makes peace and declares war on same turn. Moderator Action: <SNIP> Mapuche declare war when I kill a barbarian, Moderator Action: <SNIP> Really would like to build instead being constantly at war. Anyone else have any weirdness like this?

Moderator Action: Edited your post. Please help us keep the forum family friendly by using appropriate language. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Thormodr]

I kind of wish I would see other civs' Historic Moments, or at least their significant ones. That would be much more interesting than the gossip stuff that scrolls by when the AI takes their turns.

Maybe Pedro could even brag about it, too. Lol.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Well there is no emergency... odd

Yup, I don't know what's going on. I hope just a small oversight that the devs will fix.

Also, I've just tried if you can upgrade units (without resource) inside city territory while Magnus with Black Marketeer promotion is assigned there...aaand doesn't seem to work

I know the tooltip says that units trained in that city but... it'd so awesome to upgrade that bunch of already promoted units

 

[Disgustipated]

I didn't see a single emergency since the release, feels bad.

Didn't get any my first game, as I was pretty isolated. I participated in 2 my second game, and I think there was at least 1 more not involving me (because I was friends with Scotland).

First one was a city-state emergency of a cultural city state taken over by Shaka. I wasn't sure if could get over there in time, but epic speed gives you 40 turns, and I could have still done it in 30. Good thing I brought a bombard corps which I upgraded to an artillery corps in my allies territory since they got walls up before I could get enough troops in position. I did all the work because the city wasn't coastal, and I had to go through Scotland to get there.

Annoying thing is I got messages from Scotland and Georgia about encroaching on their borders. I thought I could clear it in time, but I failed both times and took a diplomatic hit with both civs.

Second one was a Holy city emergency in Mapuche holy city. They were mostly converted by Georgia anyways. I don't get it, Latauro complained about me converting his holy city even though it was Georgia's religion. So I took a diplomatic hit for that one even though he's my cultural ally and I'm trying to "save" his holy city. Though I have no way of getting his religion back, I put my religion in there instead.

So my only annoyances were the 3 diplomatic hits I took while participating in these emergencies. I also happened to burn down a nearby Zulu city since they were in my way and I wanted to return home the ocean route rather than go through 2 civs to get back around the world the other way. I took no official diplomatic hit for razing the city, but I had trouble maintaining a couple alliances for a while afterwords despite 0 official warmongering penalty. Which makes me believe there's some hidden aggression counter somewhere.