[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Greywulf]

Ikanda for Zulu pretty is much confirmed - check out one of the screenshots floating around..

Do we know what it does yet?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Argh...I was hoping that they would have played with one of the last 3 civs/leaders by now. We know who they all are now anyway.. We just want to know their UX's.

Hard to do since they weren't in the build.

 

[AvianBritish]

A better question should be why they handled the amenity district aspect the way they did, instead of just allowing EC to be built on water tiles, with mutually exclusive buildings depending on the district placement. But given what we have, the change to Brazil is as reasonable as it can be, even though they stem from a strange underlying design choice.

With that I definitely agree. They could of just had some sort of modifier reading "can be built on coast tiles adjacent to land after researching Natural History. When built on coast all regional buildings spread 3 tiles further." and then copy it over to the Street Carnival.

Either way, as much as I love the idea of water-based districts and I love the look and idea behind the "Water Park" I don't like how it's been implemented; name and Brazil's 2nd UI primarily.

 

[AvianBritish]

Hard to do since they weren't in the build.

but the Zulu UI is in the game. Makes me wonder if the Civilopedia also include the other 3 UIs, UUs, Civs or Leaders (and potentially the new GG for completion sake).

 

[WillowBrook]

It just doesn't seem right for official content; it's because of little rule-breaks like this that don't follow the status quo are why I don't use mods.

Perhaps you need to redefine "rule"? The devs write the rules, so they can't exactly break them.

Just because they haven't done something before doesn't make it a rule that they can't break later.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

but the Zulu UI is in the game. Makes me wonder if the Civilopedia also include the other 3 UIs, UUs, Civs or Leaders (and potentially the new GG for completion sake).

They could, but we know they couldn't be playable. Shaka would have been between Seondeok and Tamar when choosing the leader, but wasn't.

 

[WillowBrook]

They could, but we know they couldn't be playable. Shaka would have been between Seondeok and Tamar when choosing the leader, but wasn't.

I suspect leaving the ikanda in there was an oversight when they created the preview build.

 

[Thormodr]

Hmmm...impressed with the live streams, so far. Rise and Fall looks like it is going to add a lot to gameplay and shake things up. The Ages system, especially.

 

[stealth_nsk]

A better question should be why they handled the amenity district aspect the way they did, instead of just allowing EC to be built on water tiles, with mutually exclusive buildings depending on the district placement. But given what we have, the change to Brazil is as reasonable as it can be, even though they stem from a strange underlying design choice.

Well, those districts are unlocked at different tech and Water Park has wider range. Those factors are enough to make this a separate district.
Also, there's no such mechanic in the game as allowing different buildings depending on district placement. Looks like just adding second district was a simpler solution.

 

[liv]

I only watched the first part of one stream so far (Cree-it was fun). Anybody getting any sense of whether the loyalty mechanism will prevent city sprawl or early conquests?

 

[darkace77450]

I only watched the first part of one stream so far (Cree-it was fun). Anybody getting any sense of whether the loyalty mechanism will prevent city sprawl or early conquests?

I haven't watched any of the streams, but I believe the idea behind loyalty is to slow down sprawl/conquest, not halt it altogether. I'm hoping the days of spamming 4-population cities anywhere you've got room just to slap an empty commercial hub and a campus in them are gone. Now you'll have to consider proximity to foreign cities and population levels when you place or takeover a new city and you'll have to manage your happiness, era score, and governor placement to ensure your cities don't flip. So sprawl and conquest should still be possible, they'll just take more consideration than they currently do.

 

[WillowBrook]

I only watched the first part of one stream so far (Cree-it was fun). Anybody getting any sense of whether the loyalty mechanism will prevent city sprawl or early conquests?

It seems you should be able to spread out around your vote cities without much trouble. You may have to put a governor in a new city near your neighbors especially if you're in a dark age, but as long as your new cities are near several established cities, it seems you can keep spreading out.

On the other hand, you won't be able to grab resources (or just spam cities) with lone towns near big foreign cities, as least not without careful planning. (I think a cultural alliance eliminates foreign pressure?)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

For those keeping score at home, Seondeok offers yukpo (did i get that right?) with her delegation.

 

[liv]

It seems you should be able to spread out around your vote cities without much trouble. You may have to put a governor in a new city near your neighbors especially if you're in a dark age, but as long as your new cities are near several established cities, it seems you can keep spreading out.

On the other hand, you won't be able to grab resources (or just spam cities) with lone towns near big foreign cities, as least not without careful planning. (I think a cultural alliance eliminates foreign pressure?)

I watched some of mongolia play by a Drew Dumil and he seemed to have edited the end a bit but it seems like he lost the Chinese cities he captured because he ended up in a dark age as he was campaigning. So it looks like one has to proceed with some care and pay attention to the age system.

 

[sonicmyst]

There's a Polygon article that mentioned they failed an emergency because he thought other AI civs will join but he ended up doing the emergency mission on his own (no other civ accepted). Problem was he was too far from the target civ and he lost the emergency.

Such a gamble.

 

[Trengilly]

Why on earth does the Loyalty Lens not also show you your own positive loyalty pressure?

So far the loyalty system looks like a great idea but just half baked.

 

[stealth_nsk]

There's a Polygon article that mentioned they failed an emergency because he thought other AI civs will join but he ended up doing the emergency mission on his own (no other civ accepted). Problem was he was too far from the target civ and he lost the emergency.

Such a gamble.

Looks good, IMHO.

 

[leandrombraz]

I watched some of mongolia play by a Drew Dumil and he seemed to have edited the end a bit but it seems like he lost the Chinese cities he captured because he ended up in a dark age as he was campaigning. So it looks like one has to proceed with some care and pay attention to the age system.

He was quite careless there and he had no idea how the system worked. If he hadn't razed that city, he wouldn't lose the first he conquered to loyalty, at least not into he got to the dark age, which he would need to be mindful about. The loyalty system add an extra challenge to warmongering, you will definitely need to proceed with care, blind conquering like that will end badly, mostly when a dark age hit.

 

[Vahnstad]

What civs were changed?
Egypt
Sumeria
America
Brazil
more? ...

Indirect change for:
France

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

What civs were changed?
Egypt
Sumeria
America
Brazil
more? ...

Indirect change for:
France

The media build doesn't have DLC civs, I don't think. There could be more.