Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[Aion]

@TLC: There's no chance to win this game without reloading, so forget about your bad conscience!

In my game, I'm facing major problems. I had stopped my first campaign in Asia, because the Seleucids were pretty strong and time was pushing to conquer Iberia and Gallia. In the meanwhile, the Seleucid possessions were conquered by the Parthians, and now I went to war against them to conquer Asia Minor and Syria. But those guys are really tough. I managed to repell their first and second attack wave, but I have no idea if I can withstand them further, let alone conquer their cities. Frustrating

Happy new year, everyone!

 

[The Last Conformist]

The fifth Punic War began with a Roman landing on the Baleares, which fell quick enough. Since then the Carthaginians have been making half-hearted attempts to invade Sicily, but the chief fighting has been in Morocco. Losses have been heavy - my initial expeditionary force of 41 units has shrunk to about 25 despite reinforcements - but the Carthaginians have suffered even worse, and seem to've lost all offensive capability. Also, I've allied with the Numidians, who are helping wear down the Carths.

Needless to say, I'm horribly behind the timeline ...

 

[Stormrage]

Such drama! I love reading this thread

 

[The Last Conformist]

Cirta falls to the advancing Romans, after a Velites somehow demolishes its walls with his javelin. The Punic navy still reigns supreme in the western Med, but that'll do it little good if the Punic army can't defend its bases.

 

[Jacob Jansen]

Is there a new link to the download. The one of the first page says file not found..:-(

 

[The Last Conformist]

The fall of Cirta was quickly followed by the Roman conquest of Hippo Regius and Utica. Taking Carthage itself proved trickier, and was not accomplished before I had had to repell a Ptolemaic invasion of Sicily, and suffered a big Germanic invasion in the Rhaetia-Pannonia area. Now I have to mop up the remains of Carthage (should be easy) and chase back the Germanics (a rather daunting prospect).

Edit: Turns out I couldn't stop the Germanics from overrunning Italy. Those were alot of Praedatores. Let's see if I've got some suitable save to reload from ...

 

[Aion]

Is there a new link to the download. The one of the first page says file not found..:-(

It seems to work for me. You have to open the link and download it from 3D Downloads instead of just choosing "save target as", maybe that's why it didn't work. Oh yes, and welcome to civfanatics

 

[The Last Conformist]

Ok, I reloaded, and terminated my African campaign after taking Utica (netting Thelepta in the peace treaty). Now I'll have some breathing space to prepare resisting the evil Germanics.

Edit: I declared preemptive wars on the Germanics, on the logic it's better to wear them down gradually than to have to face all those Praedatores in one overwhelming tidal wave of doom. I should apparently not, however, have ship quite as many troops from Africa to Pannonia - now the Numidians have declared on me!

Edit: I clearly shouldn't've attack the Germanics on their home ground - I should've recalled that frikken MPP with the Goths!

 

[Jacob Jansen]

It seems to work for me. You have to open the link and download it from 3D Downloads instead of just choosing "save target as", maybe that's why it didn't work. Oh yes, and welcome to civfanatics

Well, I did it again and it worked. Thanks for the help and for the welcome. I wish I would of found this site a long time ago. I am a huge Civ fan...

 

[The Last Conformist]

From the department of the downright evil: I took Lambaesis, and signed peace with the Numidians on the condition they declared war on Aegyptus, and then I immediately made peace with Cleo myself. Everyone seems to hate me anyway, so why not behave like a total ass?

 

[Taijian]

Hi there! Still love this scenario and finally got around to giving it a new try.

One possible bug found in the 1.02 Junior version: I was unable to make a MA with Athenae. Since they are greek I fell that this should be possible, shouldn't it?

Gunnar

 

[The Last Conformist]

That's in the non-junior version too.

 

[Aion]

It's not a bug, it's intended. Though I'm not sure why.

 

[Aion]

So I managed to win that Parthian war, but it was a very bloody thing. It took from 86-118, and I conquered Dorylaeum and the coastal cities of Side, Tarsus and Antiochia. But it was extremely difficult, because the Parthian army was huge. I only managed to do win by relying on various dirty tricks - starting with ROP treachery, massive (!) reloading etc. I also gave cities that I couldn't defend to the (neutral) Pirates, only to conquer them back later . Yet I lost one Legio Caesaris and my Legio Scipionis . Also, my cities suffered badly from war weariness. So all in all it was a very difficult matter. And something says me the Egyptian campaign won't be easier

 

[Drendor]

Hello!

I havent posted here for a while. I just wanted to share some thoughts.

In my campaign (start 275 BC,consul) I have now reached the year around 10-12 AD and all in all I´m severly behind the historic timeline.

In Gaul I have only conquered 2/3 of the country and I havent even considered advancing to the channel coast and invade Britannia.

In the alps all is quiet at the city of Avicendium.

I have conquered Thrakia (nice goldmines where i put my slaves to work) and 10 legions + auxallaries guard the borders against Goths and Scyths.
I had a war with Scyths 40-50 years ago when I had just finished my conquest of Byzantium. The Scyths attacked with around 20-25 nomads and managed to capture one of my worthless cities and capture some of my servi.
Luckily i had many troops nearby and could repell their surprise attack.
After I had killed all their advancing units I sued for peace where I managed to get one of their home nation cities wich I immediately razed.

The conquest of Macedonia and Greece was tedious cause they hadnt been to war and Macedonia had tons of Phalanx wich can be quite a tough nut to crack for the legions.

By the way: I had to pay 2700 gold to incite the citizens of Pergamum. Is this high cost normal? I know, with better planning I should have gone there and invaded but they had quite a task force in the city (20+ boats and 15+l and units) and I was way off behind in my time scheudle.
Maybe one should propaganda the city earlier when they havent bought so many units?

Are the Ptolemains (Egypt) supposed to be this strong? Reaching the age of Augustus I tried to reach Palestine as fast as possible after the fall of balkan and greece. I want to crucify the Nazarene before its too late.
The persian war machine crushed the Selucids and i managed to conquer some selucid cities (those on the coast in minor asia) before the kingdom fell.
Now I have mustered my forces and attacked Egypt both by land and sea.
My main army used persian roads to get to Tyre while some spearhead units was shipped and landed outside the city (after a little conquest of the strategicly important Salamis.

But the Egyptians are the toughest opponent I have encountered so far. When the war began my military advisor said that our military forces were on parity. And my total forces counted roughly: 130 velites, 45 legions, 15 ballista, 10 eqite, 5 numid cavs, 40 celtic warriors and 100+ presidiums.

I investigated the Egyptian cities before the attack and they had easily (hard to estimate) 50+ modern warships and 150-200 land units of wich most were hoplites but maybe 10-15% were the dreaded legio Antonius.

I am now besieged in Tyre (luckily i managed to capture it in a surprise attack from sea thx to my 3 legio scipio) and only my 5 armies and 15+ballista and 100+ velites in the city (and maybe 20 legio, some Imperioator) manage to secure my survival.

I know I should have attacked Egypt earlier but I find it difficult to hold the timeline in this scenario.

One observation that I have made and that maybe have slowed me down considerable: Dont build many legio in the period before the reforms of Marius.
I made that mistake and it slows your early conquest down considerably.
Build hordes of Miles socius in the pre Marius era, they can later be upgraded to legio Marius or even better directly to legio Imperioator. Dont worry you will have the money for this. When you build the dictator persue wonder you set science to zero and build up cash quickly.

Its really a waste of resources doing like I did: upgrading a 3 pop legio to legio Imperioator for 230 gold when you could instead upgrade a 1 pop miles socius to legio Imperioator for 240 gold.

With this strategy you must be prepared to fight the punic wars with the miles soc as your main tank instead of the legio wich have 2 more hp. It will be more difficult but if you succeed you can later upgrade 80+ miles soc to legions with a cheaper pop cost!

Deefensive bonuses: are fort,limes,hills and rivers all cumulative?

 

[König Markus]

My fouth game:

It's 249AD, researching for Philosopher on the Throne, Golden Age . I think I'm not so behind the timeline.

Britannia under control, expect the last city of the Gaul Celts.
Germanics defeated (early in the game), Limes Rhaetiani built, historic border reached.
Greecce under control, Pirates defeated, Spain partly under control, 4 cities in Asia + Salamis. But the Ptolemains are strong. They defeated Syria.

Now I wanted to conquer Dacia with 34 Legio Imperatoriae, 8 Miles Auxiliarius, 4 Eques Legionarius, 6 Velites, 6 Ballista, 2 Catapulta, 1 Cohortes Imperatoriae, 2 Legio Trajanis (one with 2 Legio Imperatoriae, one with 2 Eques Legionarius).
I tried. I my view it is impossible to defeat Dacia. I estimate they have 50 Praedotor and lots of other units. The Praedotor-units as strong as Legio Imperatoriae or a little better, because they can retreat.

I don't know what to do now. Without Sirmium I can't win the game.

 

[König Markus]

I also gave cities that I couldn't defend to the (neutral) Pirates, only to conquer them back later .

That's a good idea.
Maybe a possibility to defeat Dacia yet. It's a pitty I already defeated the Pirates.

 

[König Markus]

I my view the wondor "Migratio Magna" + "Migratio Barbarii" is much too strong. The Magratio Magna puts a Migratio Barbarii in every city and the Migratio Barbarii generates "very regularly" one Praedator.

This means in my current game Dacia gets every 3 turns 8 Preadators. + every 3 turns one Bellator Daciae. And when those units win they get Bellator Loricatus.
And they have to pay only 2 gold for each unit. 4 units each city are free!
And they don't have to finance research.

And in 325AC they get new wonders and even better units (Incursator).

So in my view the Germanics, Dacia and other barbarian nations are much too strong in comparsion with the Roman Empire. Even in historic view!

 

[Drendor]

I my view the wondor "Migratio Magna" + "Migratio Barbarii" is much to strong. The Magratio Magna puts a Migratio Barbarii in every city and the Migratio Barbarii generates "very regularly" one Praedator.

This means in my current game Dacia gets every 3 turns 8 Preadators. + every 3 turns one Bellator Daciae. And when those units win they get Bellator Loricatus.
And they have to pay only 2 gold for each unit. 4 units each city are free!
And they don't have to finance research.

And in 325AC they get new wonders and even better units (Incursator).

So in my view the Germanics, Dacia and other barbarian nations are much to strong in comparsion with the Roman Empire. Even in historic view!

I havent played the scenario beyond 30 AD yet so I have no personal experience of what you are talking about.

You said you defeated the Germanic tribes, does that mean that you conquered all their cities except those beyond impassable terrain?

Well done! That tribe seems to be the most dangerous opponent in the late game togather with the persians and the goths.

So far I think it seems very much to be a matter of tradeoffs. If you stray longer than historic time in one area and completely wipe out one foe, the tribes wich you arent fighting get stronger in the meantime.
Its a nowin situation unless you manage to wipe out all major tribes before they spawn too many units.
In my game (described in earlier posts) I completely conquered Thrakia after the conquest of Illyria. But because of this I have not been at war with the Germanic tribe at all so maybe they will overwhelm me with units in the late game because of this....

I guess its also a matter of reading the civilopedia (the best I have seen in any mod) and examine wich tribes get wich spawn wonders and when.
A little boring powergaming perhaps but maybe necessary to complete the scenario.

I myself had some problems with the strong Ptolemains. In the battle for Tyre (wich I at last won) I lost around 10 legions and 20-30 auxillaries in 3-4 turns when I fought against 100+ units who consisted mostly of 6-4 hoplites.

Regarding army composition: Are you using velites? You were only bringing 6 of those to the Thrakian campaign. I find them very useful for their small cost and build hordes of them. 5-2-2 with 2 bombard for 30 shield is very, very good. Often I attack enemies with 1 point movement even if they have 4 in defense and stand on hills. The retreat feat makes them very good for softening the enemy up before the legions go in. Often its the velite themselves who complete the kill.
In my game I had 160 velites at the map before the siege of Tyre.
Another good thing with them is that they are still useful for bombardment duty even when they are down to 1 hp, and they are good as well to bombard ships. They can tear down wallls and oppidiums as well transforming mighty fortresses into pathetic huts...

Historically the velites should probably be weaker but then you had to strenghten the legions instead.

 

[Aion]

The Germanics ought to be strong, especially in late game, because after all they were the ones that brought the Roman Empire to fall. And also in earlier history the Romans had a lot of trouble with them ("Varus, give my legions back!", remember?). But it should still be possible to conquer the cities on Rhine and Danube.

Persia should be strong too, they were tough opponents for the Romans. In the 3rd century, emperor Valerian even became a prisoner after a defeat against Persia. He died in captivity, and legend is that his corpse was stuffed
and presented as a trophy in a temple.
Though it's a bit annoying, if Persia conquers the Syria (as it happened in my game). So you should defeat the Seleucids early enough, to prevent the necessity to go to war against the Parthians.

I haven't tried conquering Dacia, but judging from König Markus' description, they are way too strong. They were serious opponents, but emperor Trajan's campaign against them was quite swift and successful. Also, Aegyptus is way too strong. I can't remember that the Romans would have had greater problems conquering Egypt, they should be much weaker.

All in all, my conclusion is that this mod is great fun, actually it's the very best CivIII mod there is. But it's too difficult, at least for me. Maybe I should have tried the junior version instead.