Rise And Rule Revisited (epic mod)

[Izengrimm]

others were skipped (Guerilla Warfare)

Thank god!

Is anybody of you using the governments Theocracy and Fundamentalism?

Sometimes, after the whole tech tree is completed. When I want to add some Warhammer flavour to my game))

NO victory conditions at all, aggressive civs, 999 turns, only Monarch level (the most balanced level IMHO)

PS. BTW, once I said here that it is strange to perform ritual sacrifices in order to gain some culture points in the modern and future eras. I take that back. Please don't cancel it. Blood must flow)))

Thanks for everything, Civinator

 

[ynot56]

While you are changing things...

It isn't a bug, but I find the Trupador particularly annoying. The strumming of their lyre? is constant unless the unit is fortified.

I like your "upgraded" tech tree!

 

[Civinator]

Izengrimm and ynot56, thank you both very much for your input to the further development of RARR and your kind words about that mod.

BTW, once I said here that it is strange to perform ritual sacrifices in order to gain some culture points in the modern and future eras. I take that back. Please don't cancel it. Blood must flow

Izengrimm, I still share your former opinion and meanwhile the next version of RARR is still set to a neutral text about sacrificing. It is fitting much better to a religious government 'Theocracy' that can be of better use in the game. The new "sacrifing" system is similar to my mod CCM. In era 2-4 religious persons (priests, mullahs,yogis) can "convince" other units to become monks and these monks can contribute to the "cultural benefit" of a nation. I´m not quite sure if I should introduce the CCM system of lawyers/great artists (as shown in the following screenshots), too as this could bring the cultural system of RARR out of balance. At present I have only CCM screenshots about great artists 'at the hand', but they show the text of the sacrificing - so of course the cultural benefit is much lower compared to the output in the CCM screenshots to keep in balance with the cultural system of RARR. In era1 of RARR, workers will be 'normally sacrificed' to the benefit of the nation.

While you are changing things...

It isn't a bug, but I find the Trupador particularly annoying. The strumming of their lyre? is constant unless the unit is fortified.

I like your "upgraded" tech tree!

ynot56, thank you very much for pointing to that problem of the troubadour unit. Each default sound is annoying - and especially such a long sound file. I will add an INI file to the upcoming upload of the next version of RARR to stop that problem.

 

[Izengrimm]

I have some minor comment about funny tax revenues by the supply shipments from the wineries, plantations and other SW. 25 gold payment by default is really something. Historically, any big manufacture works like those were the key budget production elements and main state treasury supporters.

This SW should have values about 1000-3000 for one supply shipment. Maybe even more like 5K

 

[Civinator]

I have some minor comment about funny tax revenues by the supply shipments from the wineries, plantations and other SW. 25 gold payment by default is really something. Historically, any big manufacture works like those were the key budget production elements and main state treasury supporters.

This SW should have values about 1000-3000 for one supply shipment. Maybe even more like 5K

Izengrimm, the AI - in contrary to the human player - doesn´t handle those supply shipments very well. The AI especially has problems, when the supply shipment is directly produced in the capital. So I set the value of these shipments to the same value for randomly defeating a barbarian tribe in the game: 25 gold. This assures, that there is a vitalizing element in the game with no game changing grave consequences, when the AI didn´t handle this feature well.

 

[Izengrimm]

Izengrimm, the AI - in contrary to the human player - doesn´t handle those supply shipments very well. The AI especially has problems, when the supply shipment is directly produced in the capital. So I set the value of these shipments to the same value for randomly defeating a barbarian tribe in the game: 25 gold. This assures, that there is a vitalizing element in the game with no game changing grave consequences, when the AI didn´t handle this feature well.

Well, I set it to 5K gold manually and playing right now. Went through ancient era with no issues, Now in the middle of Medieval age, still no problems. Noticed couple of flavour resources locations near the neighbourhood civ cities, probably they built small wonders there - I constantly check for their gold amount - works good.

Probably it's because that 5K value for SS wasnt set by default?

 

[Civinator]

Izengrimm, please believe me, the AI has here 'issues'. This was frequently testes in games with Debug mode. On the other side of course the player can set the games to the values he wants - but this will not become the normal settings in RARR. Even in games without Debug mode, the human player from time to time will discover cities full from supply shipments, that were not transformed to gold - especially in capitals, where these units can be built directly due to a lux./strat. resource in the city radius of that capital.

 

[Izengrimm]

Izengrimm, please believe me, the AI has here 'issues'. This was frequently testes in games with Debug mode. On the other side of course the player can set the games to the values he wants - but this will not become the normal settings in RARR. Even in games without Debug mode, the human player from time to time will discover cities full from supply shipments, that were not transformed to gold - especially in capitals, where these units can be built directly due to a lux./strat. resource in the city radius of that capital.

Yep, I understand the problem with SS right in the capital - AI must "wake" the local unit, pick SS with that unit, move it outside the city and return it back to get the gold. 4-stage algorithm.

But how about the non-capitals? Do they just stockpile these supply shipments without taking them to the "convertation center"? Because AI cannot use the city garrison units to pick SS and walk away to the capital?

 

[Civinator]

The supply shipments can move on their own and only need an escort for the last move into the capital but the AI sees no need to move them out of the capital, when they are just inside the capital - and additionally the AI sometimes doesn´t use the best ways for their supply shipments to the capital.

 

[Ozymandias]

Just quickly addressing the notion of Sacrifice in the later Eras, you might consider them as Slaves being sent to a Slave Market, made obsolete by a Tech called "Emancipation." Slavery wasn't outlawed by France and the British Empire until about 1840, and the USA (obviously) fully until 1865. You could give it a small Tax Revenue boost to represent the ongoing "commerce." Another thought, if you'd care to model it on something like our Earth, would be to make it a Coastal Improvement, given that the vast majority of the slave trade, in our past, went from one port to another.

 

[Civinator]

OZZY, in most parts this is the current setting used in RAR and RARR and as the tech 'Emancipation' is only optional, a player could even continue to stay with slavery even in the modern era (so the unhappiness caused by slave markets than is doubled by many GWs) - but I´m reflecting about adding the 'doubles sacrifice flag' to slave markets, too (so at present I´m not sure about this).

 

[ynot56]

Another couple of minor nits.

After Satellites, you see the whole world. BUT, only that time, any changes after that have to be discovered the old fashioned way. Once satellites go up, the fog of war should be lifted.

I realize this may not be possible to do.

Also, It seems to me as if Radar and Naval Aviation should be switched. Right now Radar is a prerequisite for Naval Aviation, whereas Naval Aviation preceded Radar by more than 20 years.

On the supply units, I firmly agree with a starting value of 25. However, certainly by the time you have more than a dozen cities, 25 seems small. Maybe 25 in Ancient, 50 in middle ages, 75 in industrial and 100 in modern?

 

[Civinator]

ynot56, thank you very much for your continuing input to RARR.

After Satellites, you see the whole world. BUT, only that time, any changes after that have to be discovered the old fashioned way. Once satellites go up, the fog of war should be lifted. I realize this may not be possible to do.

Yes, in my eyes, your realization is correct. Not possible to do.

On the supply units, I firmly agree with a starting value of 25. However, certainly by the time you have more than a dozen cities, 25 seems small. Maybe 25 in Ancient, 50 in middle ages, 75 in industrial and 100 in modern?

The value for a flag-unit, as it is the supply shipment, must be set for the complete game. Therefore a change of that value during the game is not possible.

Also, It seems to me as if Radar and Naval Aviation should be switched. Right now Radar is a prerequisite for Naval Aviation, whereas Naval Aviation preceded Radar by more than 20 years.

ynot56, here is a first glimpse about my thoughts to do the techtree of era 4 for the next version of RARR. Please note, that here some new chains of units still will be added (nuclear subs of level 1 and 2, nuclear bombers of level 2 and mobile anti-aircraft units of level 2). At least the mech. units coming with tech Mechanized Warfare must be set to 3 HPs, too.

As you can see, the situation for Radar/Naval Aviation tech is solved differently.

I´m astonished that you haven´t posted here about the worst setting problem of techs in era 4. Nuclear Fission and nuclear submarines from start at era 4, even before you have the first real submarines ?????? This was the only setting, that I had strongly reflected to change, when releasing RARR, but than I said, left it as it is, RARR is only a graphical update of RAR. Now the most important change in era 4 is the arrow from tech Rocketry to tech Fission.

 

[ynot56]

Your solution to the Radar/Naval Aviation works well.

I actually didn't mind the issue with the submarines, although Submarine Warfare could be a mandatory technology in era 3, this would solve the problem.

As a very small nit, the graphic for Miniaturization and Microchip are the same.

 

[Izengrimm]

Here's my non-RARR trouble. I always meet one main issue during every game - my eternally fighting neighbours inevitably come short of money and resources. Of course when they're continually fighting for 300-500-800 years and their cities have lost population due to resource depletion, they have no gold and their whole infrastructure is ridiculously nonthreatening. So there comes a real huge problem - unstimulating gameplay. No strong ingame adversaries makes all your efforts and time spent wasted. When you're surrounded by weak poor dying states and empires, your whole game is total letdown.

I even downloaded some cheat engine and give them aroung 500K gold to each startin from around 500 AD. And I always send dozens of my laborers to my neighbours to built them railroads, irrigate, mine etc. So I can have really good fight in the future with strong, powerful and violent adversaries (which I created myself with my own hands ).

 

[Civinator]

Here's my non-RARR trouble. I always meet one main issue during every game - my eternally fighting neighbours inevitably come short of money and resources.

Izengrimm, as you posted, this is not a RARR issue, but a problem of Civ 3 in general (and I think of the complete Civ series, too). One way to have more competive adversaries is to play in a higher difficulty level, so even here you can run in this problem, too.

Izengrimm, in what difficulty level are you normally playing RARR?

 

[Izengrimm]

zengrimm, in what difficulty level are you normally playing RARR?

last years always Monarch. Top balanced level in the game.


tried higher levels but the gaming itself becomes pointless - the enemy civs get very advanced start but nonetheless they end like they always do - constantly warring, poor and seriously exhausted. It's not about how advanced and rich they are in the beginning but how they can MAINTAIN this state and improve it. They can't. If you don't support em with resources, tech, gold and labour work.

I ain't complaining, no. No flawless games in our world, even RARR Just interesting how other respected players manage it

 

[ynot56]

I am not sure why you moved Civil Liberties to be dependent upon Fission.

The original dependency, Mass Media, seems much more reasonable.

 

[Civinator]

I am not sure why you moved Civil Liberties to be dependent upon Fission.

The original dependency, Mass Media, seems much more reasonable.

Before talking about the tech Civil Liberties, here is a screenshot, showing RARR in era 4 with England, that is not only a 'first glimpse'.

Era 4 now has two levels of nuclear attack submarines, two levels of nuclear bombers and three levels of mobile AA units. Besides the tech Rocketry now beeing a prerequisite to tech Fission the new tech Modern Air Defence was added and the tech Civil Liberties was moved to another place in that techtree.

There are several reasons causing the movement of tech Civil Liberties:

1. A problem of space in the techtree and
2. The 'inhomogenity' of that tech and the wonder it is holding.

In RARR 1.6 Civil Liberties had to be set as one of the prerequisites for the tech Vertical Flight, what was done, to give the jetplanes coming with tech Supersonic Flight some place 'to act in the game' before becoming obsolete with tech Advanced Composites. In my eyes this setting was even worse than making tech Fission a prerequisite to tech Civil Liberties.

The next version of RARR introduces a new tech Modern Air Defence that in my eyes is fitting much better as a prerequisite to tech Vertical Flight than the tech Civil Liberties and, as the new tech has some other prerequisites, this setting gives the jetplanes coming with tech Supersonic Flight even 'more air to breath'. Of course that new tech needs some place in the techtree of RARR in era 4.

In the planning I made a drawing how tech Civil Liberties would look in the game, with tech Mass Media still beeing a prerequisite for it. The result in my eyes was in the optics really ugly, especially letting next to no place between the techs Civil Liberties and Mobile Warfare.

Before discussing where to move the tech Civil Liberties (or to skip it), let´s have a look at the civilopedia description of that tech:

When reading this, I have the feeling, that such a tech belongs more in era 3 than in era 4. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights of the United Nations in 1948 is the last of the facts listed in that description - but the focus of the wonder coming with that tech was later than 1948.

When having another look at the techtree and seeing here that big free gap near the tech Fission and in the techbox of the tech Fission the GW United Nations, I recognized, that this is the best place for the tech Civil Liberties in era 4 of RARR and the GW coming with that tech should be renamed to 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights'. In my eyes the techtree of era 4 'was crying' to set the tech Civil Liberties to the place where it is now.

 

[Takeo]

Just noticed on the pic you posted of the ancient tech screen that you did away with Dynasticism as a prereq for Bronzeworking. Swordsman can now be on the scene earlier. Cool!!