Rise And Rule Revisited (epic mod)

[Civinator]

Here is the list of fixes, changes and additions in RARR 1.7:

Fixes:

Phantom resources bug Coffee/Natives fixed. Resource Natives deleted

Fix of Industrial time music playing in the early eras of the game

Techtree arrow bug to tech Construction fixed (now needs Bronze Working+ Urbanization)

Fix of the upgrade chain of WW 1 tanks

Fix upgrade chain of modern jet fighters

Fix upgrade chain horse archers to Dragoons

Fix upgrade chain of Musket Infantry

Fix upgrade chain of Line Infantry

Fix upgrade chain of Riflemen

Fix oft he boomer sub Typhoon Class

Fix of stealth attack of Gato sub and submarine (will may be removed with new settings)

Fix Movement points for many WWII and modern fighters

Fix costs Iranian F-14A Tomcat

Mirage III Export for Ethiopia added

Fix horsemen for Tibet

Fix Native Scout (Attack and MV)

Fix Heavy Bomber for Vikings

Fix Pediaicons entry Tribal class

Fix default sound of Troubadour unit

Fix sound Mali Heavy Horseman

Asian Crossbowman for Tibet added

French Musket Infantry added

Asian Raider for Tibet added

Humvee added to Turkey


Changes and additions:


- RARR files now connected to the CCM2 expansion for C3C

- Techtrees reordered

- Religious concept added

* Techtree in era1 changed

* Introduction of 4 religious communities

* Introduction of 3 religious buildings in addition to Basilica

* Introduction of 4 world religions

(add rel.community to every city, double happiness of their level 1 rel. buildings

- Government Theocracy boosted and now available with tech Theology

- New map size 180x180 and 24 civs replaces smallest map size

- Civspecific counselors and wisemen changed to traitspecific ones

- New strat. resource Hardwoods added

- Many Info-Icons added to the tech-boxes

- All submarines now are invisible, have ZOC and active bombardment

- New tech and unit line Horse Artillery added

- New unit Field Artillery added

- New unit Siege Artillery added

- Line Infantry units removed to tech Grand War

- WWII Infantry removed to tech Totalitarianism

- New unit line cold war conventional subs added

- New first level nuclear attack subs added

- New first level nuclear boomer subs added

- New second level nuclear bombers added

- New unit lines heavy and advanced heavy tanks added

- New unit lines WWI and WWII armored cars added

- New unit lines WWII and Cold War AA-units added

- New unit line WWII SPAs added

- New unit line Cold War APCs added

- New tech Cold War added

- New tech Modern Air Defence added

- Tech Civil Liberties removed, GW Civil Rights Movement added to tech Mass Media

- Tech Stirrup back to era1, replacing Horse Breeding

- New Tech Knights replacing tech Stirrups in era 2

- Tech Shipbuilding renamed tech Naval Tactics

- Tech Engineering new icon and new civilopedia entry

- Tech Steam Power renamed to tech Fossil Energy

- Ports now produce veteran ships and repair ships and allow trade over water

(=> Improvement shipyard removed and improvment harbour no longer allows trade over water)

Reason: coastal cities with repair abilties of ships should be identified by the anchor symbol and this symbol unfortunately is connected to the option of water trade.

- GW Freuds Psychoanalyses added

- GWs Disneyland removed to era 4 tech Mass Media

- GW Amusement Park removed to tech City Planing

- Ankor Wat now again obsolete with tech Mass Production (as it was in RAR)

- Modern Farm: Costs reduced to 470

- Unhappiness caused by slave markets reduced to one

- Maintainance costs for barracks, worker housing and slave market set to zero

- SW Tea Growers removed to tech Mercantilism

- Helicopter changed for Brits from Tiger to Apache

- Superspecialists disabled as AI didn´t use them

- Specialist Police Officer removed to tech Industrialization


New techtree Era 3 (here for civ Germany):

New techtree for Era 4 (here for civ USA):

 

[erudite8]

Those options were introduced with PtW and were designed by Firaxis to provide specific goals and allow for shorter games. In my mods CCM1, CCM2 and in the upcoming next version of RARR I use some parts of these options to achieve other - more satisfying - results with the flags that are offered by those options, especially units that cannot been built normally, but can be upgraded by existing other units.



Unfortunately the great 'old' modders, who concepted and created DyP and RaR are no longer active in modding Civ 3 since a longer time. I have a deep respect for every one of them. I was delighted, that many of them made posts in this thread and gave me their 'blessing' that I can even introduce new elements to this mod - what I will do in the upcoming next version of RARR (mostly concepts that were accepted very well in my CCM mods). My original plan was to do the fixes for all reported bugs and errors, to add some new concepts, test the new game and than release the new version, including two surprises. The testgame with the new version was extremly pleasing and therefore I decided to add even more interesting elements to the next version of this mod to make that mod even better.

At present I invest all my time to finish that next version as quick as possible. I think, in this bad times, when this mod is helping to keep people staying at home in front of their computers and therefore help in flattening the curve of Corona infections, this time is very well invested. Therefore the work on the 'beefed up' next version of RARR has progressed a lot. At present I add a new line of conventional subs and two new lines of WWI light and armored cruisers to the mod, have to do civilopedia work for the new concepts and units and to adapt the two surprises to the new additions.

Of course I will have a look on your suggestions. Please post them as quick as possible for the reasons I tried to explain above. To avoid that you will waste your time for suggestions that will appear in the next version, I will add a list with the current fixes, changes and additions of RARR 1.7 and attache two screenshots of the new techtree in era 3 and 4 of this mod to the next post in this thread. Those screenshots don´t show the unit lines for cruisers and subs, that I still have to add to the biq.

Cool. Well, in my first game I tried to build every unit and every city improvement possible. Some of my thoughts on them are:
1) We've already discussed the rate of fire of defensive volley. If it is always 1 and it is imbedded deeply in civ 3 code and thus can't be altered then I think infantry units (since the ww1 trencher and including airborne and marines) should have less offensive power. History of all wars of 20th century tells us the combined arms is the way to assault fortified positions. Artillery and air units are pretty strong in the mod so I think downgrading a bit the attack of the infantry would be reasonable (it wouldn't if the defensive volley worked as it is described in civilopedia).
2) IMHO transport capacity of aircraft carriers should be more then 3. In my humble opinion any number in the range of 6-10 would be more appropriate.
3) Bombers seem to be less of an option now. They are more expensive then fighters and more vulnerable with respect to interceptor attacks. At the same time their bombing mission ability is roughly the same as that of a fighter (because of bigger rate of fire of a fighter bombardment). So their only strength is operational range. I suggest either upgrading their rate of fire or widening their operational range even more then it is now.
4) I do not know if it is possible to code but it would be super cool to assign the ability to transport infantry units to APCs. I mean, APCs and IFVs are used IRL for fire support of grunts AND their transportation.
5) IMHO pollution is a bit annoying in the present version of the mod.
6) The city improvement which transforms luxuries into more then 1 happy face (what the marketplace did in vanilla) is way too late. Maybe you should make it available in the industrial or even late medieval era?

Anyway, these are just my thoughts . I am not the strongest player (typically monarch or emperor difficulty) so perhaps I do not understand the game deeply. Feel free to criticize .

 

[Civinator]

erudite8, thank you very much for your input.

I start with the easiest to answer:

The city improvement which transforms luxuries into more then 1 happy face (what the marketplace did in vanilla) is way too late. Maybe you should make it available in the industrial or even late medieval era?

erudite8, in era 1 of RARR, there exists the building bazar, coming with tech Trade and providing a city with such a 'luxury boost'. The marketplaces (and later some other buildings with that option) additionally come in era 2.

I do not know if it is possible to code but it would be super cool to assign the ability to transport infantry units to APCs. I mean, APCs and IFVs are used IRL for fire support of grunts AND their transportation.

Working land transports in Civ 3 would be a dream - not only for epic mods and scenarios, but also for a space mod I always dreamed to do. Unfortunately the AI is not able to handle those land transport units in Civ 3 - and that´s the reason why they are not in this mod.

IMHO pollution is a bit annoying in the present version of the mod.

In my mod CCM2 I nearly completly eliminated pollution. This is possible for nearly all kinds of pollution but radioactive fallout and volcanoes. For RARR there are civers who like the feature of pollution in this mod. I respect this in RARR, as it is based on a long modding tradition starting before I made my first posts at CFC. If you like an epic mod with next to no pollution, you should try my mod CCM2.

IMHO transport capacity of aircraft carriers should be more then 3. In my humble opinion any number in the range of 6-10 would be more appropriate.

The AI in Civ 3 is not able to operate carriers properly. Frequently the AI doesn´t base any aircraft on its carriers. That´s why even an aircraft capacity of three on carriers is a huge advantage for the human player. To balance this a little bit, the carriers have a longrange bombardment ability. In my mod CCM2 I developed a special formula (that is explained in the civilopedia of that mod) with half the range of the bombing aircraft that were based on that carrier for the bomardment range, the bombing capacity for the bombard factor and the number of those planes for the rate of fire. Of course this leads to a different performance of carriers coming with the same tech. In RARR there are no such differences in the performance of similar types of weapons coming with the same tech.

Bombers seem to be less of an option now. They are more expensive then fighters and more vulnerable with respect to interceptor attacks. At the same time their bombing mission ability is roughly the same as that of a fighter (because of bigger rate of fire of a fighter bombardment). So their only strength is operational range. I suggest either upgrading their rate of fire or widening their operational range even more then it is now.

erudite8, the rate of fire is not the only factor that is decisive for the success of a bombardment. There are situations, when a high bombardment strength is better for the success of the operation compared to the number of attacks done by a lower bombardment strength. This is especially true for targets that don´t have masses of hitpoints (like buildings in a city).

I think infantry units (since the ww1 trencher and including airborne and marines) should have less offensive power. History of all wars of 20th century tells us the combined arms is the way to assault fortified positions. Artillery and air units are pretty strong in the mod so I think downgrading a bit the attack of the infantry would be reasonable (it wouldn't if the defensive volley worked as it is described in civilopedia).

This thread contains a post by Doc T. (a modder who was very important for the development of DyP and RaR), where he explained the philosophy behind the setting of infantry and tank units in era 4. The only thing that did count for this setting were tanks, tanks and tanks, as here he saw the best chance for the AI to give a somewhat interesting fight in era 4, meaning all kind of infantry in that era are only 'second class' units. As each unit should have its own 'reason for beeing', these infantry units in era 4 should at least be able to win against a fortified jeep that raced deep in the territory of a civ. Now I´m running out of time. When I have the time for doing a search for that post of Doc T., may be I can give a link to that post.

 

[Takeo]

Tanks - this one is indeed difficult. I really tested this a lot, and for me, it finally gave the AI a chance to threaten (but not overpower) even an advanced player in the later game. In general, compared to vanilla, the standard defenders in RAR are weaker vs the standard attacker. We wanted to avoid the usual situation that the human just has to place like 2 Inf in a Metro, and losing a non-coastal city is almost impossible (the balance in the standard game is fine, because here the AI builds tons of units). OTOH, defender strength values are almost pointless for a human with enough artillery, especially when fast attackers can retreat. So, if the WW1/2 tanks are best attackers and defenders, it makes it harder for the human to march next to an AI city and capture it, while also making it harder to eliminate an AI invasion (the AI obviously never coordinates fast attackers, slow defenders and ari in one stack).
I fully agree that this is highly artificial and lacks realism - so if you get to the same result with more elaborate designs like autoproduced joker units, even better.

Civinator,
Is this the quote from Doc you were thinking of?


I like the addition of the Cold War tech in era four. Always nice to squeeze in more user-made units!

 

[tjs282]

erudite8, in era 1 of RARR, there exists the building bazar, coming with tech Trade and providing a city with such a 'luxury boost'. The marketplaces (and later some other buildings with that option) additionally come in era 2.

*pssst*

(I'm sure you know this already, but) "+50% Luxury output" only boosts the Happyfaces produced by the LUX%-slider setting. AFAIK, no Vanilla buildings use this flag (and since the AI doesn't use the LUX%-slider either, such a building would not be helpful for it).

The flag (which the vanilla Marketplace has) which boosts the value of Luxury resources, providing an increased number of Happyfaces for every new Lux-type acquired (from the third onwards), is "Increase Luxury trade" -- in the upper right-hand column of the 'Improvement( flag)s' box in your screen-shot.

 

[Civinator]

*pssst*

(I'm sure you know this already, but) "+50% Luxury output" only boosts the Happyfaces produced by the LUX%-slider setting. AFAIK, no Vanilla buildings use this flag (and since the AI doesn't use the LUX%-slider either, such a building would not be helpful for it).

The flag (which the vanilla Marketplace has) which boosts the value of Luxury resources, providing an increased number of Happyfaces for every new Lux-type acquired (from the third onwards), is "Increase Luxury trade" -- in the upper right-hand column of the 'Improvement( flag)s' box in your screen-shot.

tjs282, of course you here are correct. When I tried to answer this in a hurry I overread the addition 'as it did in vanilla'. My answer was about the same flags as they were used in RaR for luxury and the marketplace and a building that came in era 1 with that flag. In my eyes here in the setting of RARR nothing should be changed.

 

[Civinator]

Civinator,
Is this the quote from Doc you were thinking of?

yes, this was the post of Doc T. in this thread. Here is the link: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-revisited-epic-mod.549166/page-12#post-14023615

Additionally in the RaR thread to that post Doc T. gave the answer in this post: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-for-civ3-conquests.100144/page-110#post-7262373

That´s why here I did no changes in the settings of era 4 infantry in the next version of RARR (with the exception that grunts now can be drafted).

 

[Atlasian]

Hey all, just registered to say thank you for work on the mods and keeping them alive. Never thought they would still be updated this many years after the games release. I just finished downloading ccm2 right now and was wondering whether it's playable with RARR as that is one of my favorite Civilization mods.

Edit: My 2 cents about the dead end techs: I'm by no means a pro at the game, but I do like some of the dead end techs and use some of them for a quick advantage, generally military and navy oriented ones, with some wonder and production techs, or money techs if I'm running out of cash. They are not too bad considering you can trade some of them to the AI for age changing techs, and they generally cost less time if I remember well.

Only thing I don't really like about the mod is the wonder that keeps producing units continually (sorry the name escapes me). It's available in the medieval ages and the units produced are just too strong compared to the AIs, and cost no production to boot. Makes for easy conquering and warring.

 

[Civinator]

Atlasian, welcome at CFC and thank you very much for your kind words about this mod.

Hey all, just registered to say thank you for work on the mods and keeping them alive. Never thought they would still be updated this many years after the games release. I just finished downloading ccm2 right now and was wondering whether it's playable with RARR as that is one of my favorite Civilization mods.

It´s just the other way around. The next version of RARR will need the expanded mainfiles of CCM2 (it´s not needed to use the modded conquest main biq, but it doesn´t harm either if it is installed). Therefore with your current upload and installation of the CCM2 expanded mainfiles, you will only need the very small additional upload of the RARR 1.7 files (currently about 46 MB unzipped) holding mainly the different techtree graphics for RARR and some other small graphical corrections and the different text files. It will not be necessairy to do the big CCM2.50 upload again for playing the next version of RARR. For playing the next version of RARR the different army graphics in the CCM2.50 upload should be deleted, as they were experimental unit prototypes which accidentialy made it into the mainfile upload and have massive pallette issues (what is no problem when playing CCM2.50, as here no units called army are existing). RARR, which holds armies, will use the original Civ 3 army graphics if no more army graphics in the expanded mainfiles, that are overwriting the original unit graphics, are existing.

My 2 cents about the dead end techs: I'm by no means a pro at the game, but I do like some of the dead end techs and use some of them for a quick advantage, generally military and navy oriented ones, with some wonder and production techs, or money techs if I'm running out of cash. They are not too bad considering you can trade some of them to the AI for age changing techs, and they generally cost less time if I remember well.

Thank you very much for your input! As you can see in the screenshots, the system of techs of RAR will be in most parts in the next version of RARR, too.

Only thing I don't really like about the mod is the wonder that keeps producing units continually (sorry the name escapes me). It's available in the medieval ages and the units produced are just too strong compared to the AIs, and cost no production to boot. Makes for easy conquering and warring.

If these unit producing SWs and GWs only produce those units in small numbers, they can give a great addition of fun in gameplay. It´s the problem to find the correct balance between production rate, the values of the autoproduced unit, the costs of the autoproducing buildings and the historical appearance of the autoproduced units in the game.

Atlasian, what autoproducing wonder are you meaning?

 

[Atlasian]

Civinator, I'm not entirely sure but I think I used to make armies with a few imperial guards from the SW "training camp". Attack of 5 and 2 movement available in late classical age with a 15 turn creation.Pretty unstoppable if I remember well as there is nothing that can come close to defending against that for a while.

 

[Civinator]

Atlasian, thank you very much for pointing to this problem.

I agree, that the imperial guard is a very strong unit for its time, and, so there is a long intervall of 15 turns for it to be autoproduced, there is enough time to gather some of them before any comparable other units appear.

As in RAR this unit can be upgraded to a cavalier - an unit that only holds one attack point more (6A compared to 5A), but one additional hitpoint less and no additional blitz and amphibious capabilities and no ZOC - I reflected, that at least the additional hitpoint could be an error in the settings of that unit in RAR (that is in the current version of RARR, too). May be the Imperial guard should be nerved by taking away that additional hitpoint, the defense bombardment and the blitz flag (what also would now make sense to upgrade that unit to the cavalier).

What´s the opinion of other civers to that problem ?

Edit: Here is a link to my search about the imperial guard in the RAR thread:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/search/110989596/?q=Imperial+guard&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=100144

Doc T. himself confessed, that he rarely builds the military small wonders: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-for-civ3-conquests.100144/page-80#post-2852099

So in my eyes it is possible, that he was not aware of that problem.

 

[Jasonwams]

Hi. I just tried to download all the files and I put them in the correct file location but every time I try and load RARR it does not load correctly, can someone help me? I keep getting stuck on 30% and then my game closes out with this error:

 

[Civinator]

Hi. I just tried to download all the files and I put them in the correct file location but every time I try and load RARR it does not load correctly, can someone help me? I keep getting stuck on 30% and then my game closes out with this error:

Jasonwams, welcome at CFC.

With the expanded CCM2 mainfiles you will be able to play the next version of RARR (RARR 1.7), that I´m currently reporting about. Of course you can play CCM2 with those files, what isn´t bad either.

For the next version of RARR you will need some days of patience. Today I have finished the settings of all units and buildings and now I´m starting the work with the civilopedia and the two extras. I do what I can to finish the next version of RARR as quick as possible - but it is still some work to do.

 

[Jasonwams]

Jasonwams, welcome at CFC.

With the expanded CCM2 mainfiles you will be able to play the next version of RARR (RARR 1.7), that I´m currently reporting about. Of course you can play CCM2 with those files, what isn´t bad either.

For the next version of RARR you will need some days of patience. Today I have finished the settings of all units and buildings and now I´m starting the work with the civilopedia and the two extras. I do what I can to finish the next version of RARR as quick as possible - but it is still some work to do.

Hi, I'm sorry, I guess I should have clarified a little more. I wasnt trying to play CCM2, I was just trying to play RARR (RARR 1.6) that I found here https://www.civforum.de/showthread....d-(epic-mod)&p=6759384&viewfull=1#post6759384 from the first post on this thread. When I try to just play Rise and Rule Revisited, I get prompted with the screenshot I first posted with. Is there any way to fix this just to play RARR 1.6?

 

[Civinator]

As the settings of RARR 1.7 are finished, here are the screenshots of the techtrees showing a lot about the next version of RARR:

Era1 (Rome):

Era 2 (England):

Era 3 (France):

Era 4 (Russia):

 

[Civinator]

Hi, I'm sorry, I guess I should have clarified a little more. I wasnt trying to play CCM2, I was just trying to play RARR (RARR 1.6) that I found here https://www.civforum.de/showthread....d-(epic-mod)&p=6759384&viewfull=1#post6759384 from the first post on this thread. When I try to just play Rise and Rule Revisited, I get prompted with the screenshot I first posted with. Is there any way to fix this just to play RARR 1.6?

Jasonwams, so RARR 1.6 is no longer on my pc (to avoid interferences with the new version of RARR), it should be playable with the expanded mainfile, too. RARR 1.6 must be installed in the C3C scenarios folder (even the RARR biq, but outside the RARR folder). Attached to this post is a zipped RARR 1.6 biq with a changed scenario search path. Rename your old RARR 1.6 biq and try the attached biq.

 

[Jasonwams]

Jasonwams, so RARR 1.6 is no longer on my pc (to avoid interferences with the new version of RARR), it should be playable with the expanded mainfile, too. RARR 1.6 must be installed in the C3C scenarios folder (even the RARR biq, but outside the RARR folder). Attached to this post is a zipped RARR 1.6 biq with a changed scenario search path. Rename your old RARR 1.6 biq and try the attached biq.

Thanks! I finally got it too work. Thanks for the quick reply

 

[Civinator]

Thanks! I finally got it too work. Thanks for the quick reply

Great that RARR 1.6 now is working for you! ... and I think RARR 1.7 even will be much better.

 

[ynot56]

I looked through your updates and fixes. I think you got many of them. Did you get the lack of hit point bonus for the French AT infantry.

I think the problem is not the Imperial guard, rather it is the cavalier. It really is not that much of an upgrade over the knight and it is not upgradeable until .. I think cavalry. Perhaps the better solution is to add the hit point to the cavalier.

 

[Civinator]

I looked through your updates and fixes. I think you got many of them. Did you get the lack of hit point bonus for the French AT infantry.

I think the problem is not the Imperial guard, rather it is the cavalier. It really is not that much of an upgrade over the knight and it is not upgradeable until .. I think cavalry. Perhaps the better solution is to add the hit point to the cavalier.

ynot56, thank you very much for all your error reports in the past, looking over the update and fixes list and your input about the Imperial guard.

The French AT Infantry has its bonus HPs in the next RARR 1.7.

Spoiler :

Concerning the Imperial guard (IG) I think there is not so much gained, if the cavalier receives an additional HP, as the longer period, when nothing else adequate to the unit qualities of the IG is still existing, stays in the game. Therefore that unit now is 'nerved' in CCM 1.7 by removing the additional HP and the blitz ability.