Rise And Rule Revisited (epic mod)

[Civinator]

Just noticed on the pic you posted of the ancient tech screen that you did away with Dynasticism as a prereq for Bronzeworking. Swordsman can now be on the scene earlier. Cool!!

Yes Takeo, this was the intention - and as the next version of RARR uses the expanded mainfiles, the wonderful units done by Imperator1961, but with original wrong animation speeds, will have your improved settings, making them absolute awesome in the game.

Another feature of the next version, that wasn´t shown yet: The smallest map size for gameplay now is skipped and a new map size with a 180x180 map and 24 civs is introduced. I´m not quite sure about the tech rate of 240 for such a setting. In CCM2 I have a very well working 180x180 map with 24 civs and a tech rate of 400, but in RAR and RARR the tech rates for all map sizes are significantly lower due to the high number of techs.

 

[Takeo]

I´m not quite sure about the tech rate of 240 for such a setting.

Are you not sure about it being too low? or too high?

I think the original 160x160 tech rate was 180, and the extended turns version was 540 tech rate?

So, 240 is probably a good place to start.

 

[ynot56]

In playing, I have noticed that the Modern Farm (the City Improvement that goes with Pesticides) seems to be a little expensive in comparison to other city improvements such as Wind Farm, which gives twice the production multiplier (50% rather than 25%) at nearly the same cost.

 

[Civinator]

In playing, I have noticed that the Modern Farm (the City Improvement that goes with Pesticides) seems to be a little expensive in comparison to other city improvements such as Wind Farm, which gives twice the production multiplier (50% rather than 25%) at nearly the same cost.

ynot56, thank you very much for your input.

Should the Modern Farm only have half the costs of the Wind Farm (470 instead of 800) ?

p.s.: The next version of RARR is nearly ready (about 95 %). I still have to do the rework of the buildings graphics of the city screen and some minor work in the civilopedia.

 

[ynot56]

Well, I think not exactly half, there should be some economy for building a more powerful facility, Even 550 or 600 would make them more useful.

 

[Izengrimm]

I have a question. How many variables for one civ are triggered when new game begins? I mean the same civ behaves very differently in similar conditions, right? For example, Vikings in the same game with the same neighbours can either rise to the heights of continental empire or rapidly disappear under enemy attacks while being unable to build something even remotely similar to the "armed forces".

 

[Civinator]

I have a question. How many variables for one civ are triggered when new game begins? I mean the same civ behaves very differently in similar conditions, right? For example, Vikings in the same game with the same neighbours can either rise to the heights of continental empire or rapidly disappear under enemy attacks while being unable to build something even remotely similar to the "armed forces".

Izengrimm, I think nobody here can answer this question correctly, especially when looking at the 'Preserve Random Seed' option in the starting menue and disabling that option. Otherwise that person could still rewrite the Civ 3 source code, and even with this knowledge the counting of all those triggers could be an insane task.

 

[ynot56]

Civinator just gave Izengrimm a nice answer.

I actually do not think it is the initial conditions. I think it is randomness.

I presume that AI's have lists of possible actions for each unit or city under different conditions. The specific action taken is a random chance. Decisions have consequences, so, one time the "dice rolls" (for lack of a better term) lead to positive decisions for the Vikings. Some other set of random "dice rolls" would lead to ... death and destruction.

 

[Civinator]

Civinator just gave Izengrimm a nice answer.

I actually do not think it is the initial conditions. I think it is randomness.

I presume that AI's have lists of possible actions for each unit or city under different conditions. The specific action taken is a random chance. Decisions have consequences, so, one time the "dice rolls" (for lack of a better term) lead to positive decisions for the Vikings. Some other set of random "dice rolls" would lead to ... death and destruction.

Yes, and this randomness gets even much more massively enlarged, when the 'random seed' (that causes the randomness) is not preserved. If it is preserved, there is only the normal randomness.

BtW.: I´m still working on the next version of RARR and at present have a very pleasant test-game with the new version to iron out some of the not reported bugs (the last one I found some minutes ago).

 

[Izengrimm]

yesterday:

City's name is some developers' joke or easter egg? -

 

[tjs282]

City's name is some developers' joke or easter egg? -

Yes, that's one of the Ottomans' listed city-names in the epic game (which it would appear that RARR has retained). As in the song.

 

[Civinator]

Yes, this is a confirmed Civ 3 easter egg. Unfortunately the link to the Civ 3 easter eggs is dead since a longer time, but with the links to the following posts you can still see, that it was discussed in the thread about the Civ 3 easter eggs:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...aster-eggs-in-civ3.126178/page-2#post-2996277
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...aster-eggs-in-civ3.126178/page-3#post-3000190

 

[Civinator]

In my current - very interesting - testgame of the next version of RARR I have seen for the first time, that my nuclear bomber was intercepted by a fighter. The nuclear bomber shot down the defending propeller fighter, but had to return to its base without nuking the target city. May be I should reflect in pushing nuclear missiles later in the techtree of era 4 to allow some kind of real existing defence against nuclear attacks.

Unfortunately I´m not able to do a screenshot about that situation during the game.

Edit: Unfortunately this bomber was a conventional bomber showing the graphics of a nuclear bomber, including the nuclear bomber default and explosion graphics. So here I only found another bug in the graphical settings of an unit.

 

[ynot56]

It seems as if the AI loaded an Army with 3 armor's onto a galleon.

I thought mechanized units couldn't load onto a galleon.

 

[tjs282]

It seems as if the AI loaded an Army with 3 armor's onto a galleon.

I thought mechanized units couldn't load onto a galleon.

It's the Army's and Galleon's unit-attribute settings that will govern loading.

e.g. If the 'Army' unit is itself marked as a 'Foot unit', and the Galleon 'Transports only foot units', then any Army should/will load into the Galleon just fine, regardless of which units (with which unit-attribute flags) have been loaded into that Army.

 

[erudite8]

Fantastic mod! I've never played DyP or RAR before, so for me it's even more entertaining. However, after my first completed game I got a couple of questions.
First is technical: when I started a new game and set up a capital city it was immediately destroyed and the game finished on the zero turn. The same issue occured with all my computer opponents during my next try and I won. What the hell is this bug?
Second question is about the mod itself. In the civilopedia it is written that modern land units like infantry, tanks, etc. have zero radius defensive bombardment with rate of fire typically 2 or 3. However, I've never noticed they use it more then one time. Is it a bug or the rate of fire is in fact 1? Sorry for possible mistakes, eng is not my native.

 

[tjs282]

In the civilopedia it is written that modern land units like infantry, tanks, etc. have zero radius defensive bombardment with rate of fire typically 2 or 3. However, I've never noticed they use it more then one time. Is it a bug or the rate of fire is in fact 1?

This is hardcoded, not a bug per se.

R=0 (defensive) bombardments always have an associated F=1 (i.e. max. 1 HP knocked off the incoming attacker), regardless of what F-value the modder has set for the unit in the .biq.

Don't ask me why the Firaxis devs programmed it like this, but that's what they did (maybe to reduce the number of combat-calculations?).

 

[Civinator]

erudite8, welcome at CFC and thank you very much for your kind words about this mod.

Your question about the RF (Rate of Fire) for defensive bombardment was answered perfectly by tjs282 (tjs282 thank you very much for giving the answer). When DyP and RAR were created, those modders didn´t know about the limit of defensive bombardement to 1 and later there was no real reason to correct all those higher RF-settings, as the correction to a RF of one wouldn´t have any influence to the game.

The 'sudden death' of your started games in my eyes are no bug, but could be triggered by some wrong indiviual settings when you started those games. Please have a look, if you accidentaly have triggered one or more of the regicide options when starting a game.

These should be the tickled boxes (in blue) that should be enabled when starting a game (and the other boxes should be disabled):

 

[erudite8]

This is hardcoded, not a bug per se.

R=0 (defensive) bombardments always have an associated F=1 (i.e. max. 1 HP knocked off the incoming attacker), regardless of what F-value the modder has set for the unit in the .biq.

Don't ask me why the Firaxis devs programmed it like this, but that's what they did (maybe to reduce the number of combat-calculations?).

Thanks for explanation, mate.

The 'sudden death' of your started games in my eyes are no bug, but could be triggered by some wrong indiviual settings when you started those games. Please have a look, if you accidentaly have triggered one or more of the regicide options when starting a game.

Yeah, that was the reason, thanks. BTW what are those options for?

P.S. Civinator, I guess, you are the leading guy supporting RAR revisited. Would you mind, if I make some suggestions about game mechanics of the mod?

 

[Civinator]

BTW what are those options for?

Those options were introduced with PtW and were designed by Firaxis to provide specific goals and allow for shorter games. In my mods CCM1, CCM2 and in the upcoming next version of RARR I use some parts of these options to achieve other - more satisfying - results with the flags that are offered by those options, especially units that cannot been built normally, but can be upgraded by existing other units.

P.S. Civinator, I guess, you are the leading guy supporting RAR revisited. Would you mind, if I make some suggestions about game mechanics of the mod?

Unfortunately the great 'old' modders, who concepted and created DyP and RaR are no longer active in modding Civ 3 since a longer time. I have a deep respect for every one of them. I was delighted, that many of them made posts in this thread and gave me their 'blessing' that I can even introduce new elements to this mod - what I will do in the upcoming next version of RARR (mostly concepts that were accepted very well in my CCM mods). My original plan was to do the fixes for all reported bugs and errors, to add some new concepts, test the new game and than release the new version, including two surprises. The testgame with the new version was extremly pleasing and therefore I decided to add even more interesting elements to the next version of this mod to make that mod even better.

At present I invest all my time to finish that next version as quick as possible. I think, in this bad times, when this mod is helping to keep people staying at home in front of their computers and therefore help in flattening the curve of Corona infections, this time is very well invested. Therefore the work on the 'beefed up' next version of RARR has progressed a lot. At present I add a new line of conventional subs and two new lines of WWI light and armored cruisers to the mod, have to do civilopedia work for the new concepts and units and to adapt the two surprises to the new additions.

Of course I will have a look on your suggestions. Please post them as quick as possible for the reasons I tried to explain above. To avoid that you will waste your time for suggestions that will appear in the next version, I will add a list with the current fixes, changes and additions of RARR 1.7 and attache two screenshots of the new techtree in era 3 and 4 of this mod to the next post in this thread. Those screenshots don´t show the unit lines for cruisers and subs, that I still have to add to the biq.