Rise of Mankind 2.9 discussion

SDFarsight · Dec 30, 2009

I'd prefer if Leonidas had a better helmet or taken off completely, as at the moment he looks like he's wearing somesort of bizarre pancake-mask.

Though having said that, most of the other added leaders are very well made, especially Lenin.

NCC1017spock · Dec 30, 2009

I was wondering if for next release world war 1 era soldiers could be inculded? Ive played other mods with them in, and it would good in good cuase u have early tanks, and early aircarft, so why not add early infantry?

SDFarsight · Dec 30, 2009

NCC1017spock said:
I was wondering if for next release world war 1 era soldiers could be inculded? Ive played other mods with them in, and it would good in good cuase u have early tanks, and early aircarft, so why not add early infantry?

Unless you count things like the STG44 and M1 Garend, WW1 infantry aren't that different from WW2 infantry.

Dancing Hoskuld · Dec 30, 2009

@Zappara,

you could give us back the Civ 3 style oceans if you included this modpack deepsea. Naturally you would need to redo all the maps (or not if you just put kathy's code in as is) and all the ship units. :mischief:

Maybe for RoM 4

zappara · Dec 31, 2009

Yesterday evening I merged Cultural Citystyles 0.95 to RoM v2.9 - took several hours to go through CityLSystem.xml and PlotLSystem.xml files as I had to add all my own tweaks from RoM to the new citystyles... sounds easy but the actual tweaking and checking takes awfully lot of time and because RoM has different improvements for certain resources than BtS, I had to tweak many improvement plot systems as well. Anyway, the final result looks really good now and I think there's about 15 citystyles now which is about twice as many as before.

NCC1017spock said:
I was wondering if for next release world war 1 era soldiers could be inculded? Ive played other mods with them in, and it would good in good cuase u have early tanks, and early aircarft, so why not add early infantry?

There's already infantry and modern infantry units which are supposed to model ww1 and ww2 era infantries. I know they lack ethnic graphics... I do have downloaded just about all ethnic units but haven't had time to make civ specific styles.

Dancing Hoskuld said:
@Zappara, you could give us back the Civ 3 style oceans if you included this modpack deepsea. Naturally you would need to redo all the maps (or not if you just put kathy's code in as is) and all the ship units. Maybe for RoM 4

I probably won't add that - it's just not new terrain type but the workload to make changes to whole ship system... and to change all mapscripts which algorithms I usually don't understand (means it takes too much time from me to edit them).

Bobisback · Dec 31, 2009

Hey zappara I just completed the build 9 triemes quest, I chose the +2 gold to harbor selection. But it did nothing because all the harbors upgrade to ports

any chance you can give the bounes to all the upgrades of the harbor.

Kinda annoying, If i new I would have done the other selection.

Thanks,
Bob

P.S can you make it cheaper to upgrade units, I mean the amount of units ot upgrade is insane and it is very costly to upgrade anything. Not to mention the gold problem i mentioned.

civ_king · Jan 1, 2010

Bobisback said:
[1]Hey zappara I just completed the build 9 triemes quest, I chose the +2 gold to harbor selection. But it did nothing because all the harbors upgrade to ports any chance you can give the bounes to all the upgrades of the harbor.

Kinda annoying, If i new I would have done the other selection.

Thanks,
Bob

[2]P.S can you make it cheaper to upgrade units, I mean the amount of units ot upgrade is insane and it is very costly to upgrade anything. Not to mention the gold problem i mentioned.

[1] Seconded!
[2] Hate the cost? then Sun Tzu's if for you! (reduces upgrade costs by 50%)

Bobisback · Jan 1, 2010

ya for only the units in the city it is build in hahaha only a very marginal fix. And in the grand scheme of things it really does very little. Unless of course you build all your units in that one city, but there is so many buildings to build in the game, you will have a very undeveloped city. Again as I said 4 or 5 posts before I do not mind the upgrade cost, but there is just not enough gold in the later eras. That is more of a personal preference though then anything else.

It cost me 10k gold just to upgrade my jet fighters to f15's and then not even 20 turns later I could upgrade them again, which costs even more....... sorry but it will almost be better to build new ones. I mean the cost of the gold per turn combined wit the upgrade costs, it becomes fairly unmanageable.

thanks,
Bob

P.S I notice that the workers on automation can not figure out what do build, it seems tho that the ai does not have this issue. The workers will change tile improvements in one given tile every 4 or 5 turns. It doesn't seem to just pick one and go with it. I have not used it this game or my last jsut warning people that if you want towns and dense industry you might wanna take them off auto or maybe put it on workers leave old improvements.

Bobisback · Jan 3, 2010

There seems to be a error in desert tiles. When battlefield open is placed on it the -25% defensive bouns is taken away. Not sure if it is suppose to be this way but I would suspect not.

zappara · Jan 5, 2010

Bobisback said:
P.S can you make it cheaper to upgrade units, I mean the amount of units ot upgrade is insane and it is very costly to upgrade anything. Not to mention the gold problem i mentioned.

I made upgrading as cheap as possible in RoM 2.8 as there was same kind of requests in v2.8 discussion.

Promotion system

I've been thinking this a lot since it was suggested - so should I go through all promotions and tweak their modifiers to lower values? If I lower all values, maybe I should increase the rate of xp gain at the same time so units could get more promotions a bit easier? Changing all promotions is huge change so I need to figure out what's the best way to go with them...

Afforess · Jan 5, 2010

zappara said:
Promotion system

I've been thinking this a lot since it was suggested - so should I go through all promotions and tweak their modifiers to lower values? If I lower all values, maybe I should increase the rate of xp gain at the same time so units could get more promotions a bit easier? Changing all promotions is huge change so I need to figure out what's the best way to go with them...

It would be nice if you could convince Jdog, Glider or Phungus to add my new Obsolete Tech tag for promotions, that would give you a lot of room for creativity with promotions.

Bobisback · Jan 5, 2010

hehe ya I noticed that in my two games so far I do not get to 70% of the promotions.

Pongu · Jan 6, 2010

zappara said:
Promotion system

I've been thinking this a lot since it was suggested - so should I go through all promotions and tweak their modifiers to lower values?

Bold is more fun. The best promotions should inspire a fiendish chuckle; or when the AI's got them, a terrified retreat!

Xarnamo · Jan 6, 2010

I don't know if it is possible to program something like this into the mod, but I am a big fan of the Total War games and always enjoyed having leader units (King's, Queen's, etc) with evolving personalities and having a family tree of leaders to choose from for succession.

Is it possible to add something like this into RoM? Based on civics you would either have hereditary succession or elections. Leaders would only be alive for a certain amount of turns, or could be killed if they are present in a city that is captured. The death of a leader could make your civ happy or sad, based on the leaders traits.

The King/president could perhaps gain their traits through diplomacy, battle, economy, through a promotion line. For example: if you defeat a civ or vassalize it, you would gain a couple points of experience. Having the King present in an Army could give effects to the entire army (Morale, etc)

You could have the leaders that the people don't like because slavery was implemented, or you lost several cities in a war, economy tanked, etc.

A little off the subject - is there a way to "disable" the future techs? I always want more time in the modern era, and it seems the future era comes too fast (even on snail) and I don't get to play around with it as much as I'd like. Although I appreciate the complexity of it, sometimes I don't want to have the future era at all.

Thanks in advance.

Baskedyt · Jan 7, 2010

zappara said:
Promotion system

I've been thinking this a lot since it was suggested - so should I go through all promotions and tweak their modifiers to lower values? If I lower all values, maybe I should increase the rate of xp gain at the same time so units could get more promotions a bit easier? Changing all promotions is huge change so I need to figure out what's the best way to go with them...

I think the current promotions system is fine, but as you said, it needs some tweaks.

What puzzles me is the ones where different promotions gives the same bonuses against the same unit types. Two examples.
(the values are on the top of my head, since I don't run CIV4 on my laptop)

Ambush/Anti-tank defense (ATD).
Ambush gives +20% towards Tracked and Wheeled Units (TWU) but req combat II adding +20% strength. So that +20% towards all units and +40% (in all) towards TWU for a level 3 promotion.
ATD I gives +10% towards TWU and and ATD II gives +15% towards TWU. But you only need Combat I (+10% strength) to get ATD I. So that gives +10% towards all units and +35% (in all) towards TWU.
So if you had 10XP to spare against TWU which version would you choose...?
I don't think the ATD is special enough - why would I choose that over combat II which gives +10% towards all units, not just TWU?
So I think it should give higher bonus towards TWU, like +20%, but then have a penalty, like -10% towards gunpowder, siege and helicopter units. That way there is a real alternative to the ambush promotion without needing the combat II promotion.

Interception/Air-to-Air Missiles (AAM).
They both gives +10% interception chance, but AAM is only available to Jet Fighters+
I think that AAM should either have higher interception chance, or have something more, like +10% strength towards air units or +10% evasion chance. Just so there is a difference between the two.

There might be more crossovers like these, that can be tweaked.

Bobisback · Jan 7, 2010

Baskedyt you make really good points that I never thought about. I never used any of hte antitank/ambush promotions so never looked at it like that.

NBAfan · Jan 8, 2010

Zappara, the Healer's Hut should upgrade to the Docter's Office.

zappara · Jan 10, 2010

NBAfan said:
Zappara, the Healer's Hut should upgrade to the Docter's Office.

Or not. I can go to herbalist or to private doctor or to hospital in real life if I need medical care.

And little bit about RoM 2.9... here's the current changelog:

Spoiler :

Not much stuff there yet as I didn't get much modding time during holidays (don't know where all that free time went :lol:

). Now the changelog list doesn't say anything about the translations yet (the work for it has started but not shown in the log yet) - I will add the following tags to all the text files: <Finnish>, <Hungarian>, <Polish>, <Chinese>, <Japanese> and <Russia> in order to make it easier to add translations to RoM in future (3.0). However RoM 2.9 will only have english entries for most of those except for Hungarian for which I already got translation files.

fox456 · Jan 10, 2010

@Zappara,

That seems to be many changes and updates to me! I'm looking forward to trying out version 2.9, but I have a couple of questions. I don't think I will like the changes in the buildings (so many of them seem to be downgraded) and I also do not like the idea of culture being downplayed even further. Obviously, it's your mod, sobeit. But, could these particular changes be made optional?

Further, since I'm guessing you won't make the changes optional, so would you at least be able to tell me what file(s) and what lines would have to be changed to at least keep the culture levels the same as they are presently?

At any rate, thanks for RoM!

Zorn · Jan 10, 2010

No, these changes are really reasonable. Most are geared to limit city growth, which can be really insane currently.
Something that seems weird to me is that cottage no longer removes forest or jungle. It just doesn`t feel right. And once the cottage has matured, it would probably look strange, no?

About Adam Smiths: I am not really sure if the downgrade is still neccessary now that the citys can`t grow so large (which reduces the amount of specialists). +1 traderoutes is quite weak for a wonder, aren`t there classic wonders which do the same and have additional boni for the city they are buildt in too?

Rise of Mankind 2.9 discussion

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