Rise of Mankind 2.9 discussion

[zappara]

Incidentally, some people complain that certain resources aren't easily found on every map in every game. I personally like this challenge. It requires more diplomatic efforts. Yes, it can be very frustrating, but it forces you to consider different strategies to either secure those resources or work around not having them.

Well said. It's true that all players should not be able to get all resources and to get some resources you need diplomacy - like if one player has silk monopoly, then the others would have to buy it from him, just like the real world works. Now some time ago I made Resource calculation -thread and there's even sheets (open office) that you can use to calculate the occurrancies of resources (need to save maps in worldbuilder and use text editor to calculate the amounts). Based on this info I've found that few (not so important) resources are being spawned too few times, which I will try to correct in v2.9 but there won't be any huge changes.

On last weekend I added new icons to gamefont files so modmodders grab them from this post - these fonts have now new BUG spaceship icons + Eurebius religion mod icons (thanks to johny smith for templates) + one new RoM resource icons (few RoM manufactured resources are still missing own icon).

I'll make another gamefonts for v2.9 bit later, once I have merged dll that has the font fix included, with even more resource icons so modmodders can use them as they like (and I might too ).

 

[Killtech]

Well said. It's true that all players should not be able to get all resources and to get some resources you need diplomacy - like if one player has silk monopoly, then the others would have to buy it from him, just like the real world works.

I agree on this. But the problem is that when there is only a single silk resource on the whole map the player that has access to it will not trade it since he loses it for himself. furthermore if one considers that through revolutions and barbarian world there are easily more than 20 civs on the map then it becomes clear that the amount of spawned resources is too small for the game configuration.

it doesn't make much difference if unimportant resources like silk are missing but it becomes game breaking if there is too few sulphur for so many civs. what i mean is: i don't mind if i lack sulphur because it is challenge for me to acquire some but if all my opponents have none while i do the game is already decided far too early.

what i just wanted to point out is that adding further resources will make the situation more tense. and that resources of higher importance (i.e. strategic resources) should be always spawned in sufficient quantities even when it means some other luxuries find no place on the map.

btw would it be possible to modify a single resource tile to give access to more than one resource? e.g a mine on iron would grant 2 iron so the player could trade one and keep the other?

 

[civ_king]

we need to make it so that there is a MINIMUM of 1 sulpher per 4 civs so when the ammount falls under that in gives an increased possibility for sulphur to spawn

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

btw would it be possible to modify a single resource tile to give access to more than one resource? e.g a mine on iron would grant 2 iron so the player could trade one and keep the other?

There are two mods in AND which have buildings which can increase the number or resources produced by resources in the vicinity of a city. They are Resource Refinement which comes with AND and Vicinity Bonus Buildings which I am working on. So if a city has an iron mine in its working area then you can get another iron by building a iron foundry. My mod is mostly working on adding buildings for the resources that were not done in the other. Plus I think that the ones that come with AND are a little unbalanced.

 

[os79]

we need to make it so that there is a MINIMUM of 1 sulpher per 4 civs so when the ammount falls under that in gives an increased possibility for sulphur to spawn

Problem with that:

Suppose I start with 2-4 civs and let BarbarianCivs and Revolutions spawn many, many more civs later on? That would disrupt your solution. We need other methods of spawning resources correctly so that when a new civ come into its own, it have some necessary resources plus bonus ones that help it be monopoly of it if it is to be so.

Hope I made sense here .

 

[civ_king]

Problem with that:

Suppose I start with 2-4 civs and let BarbarianCivs and Revolutions spawn many, many more civs later on? That would disrupt your solution. We need other methods of spawning resources correctly so that when a new civ come into its own, it have some necessary resources plus bonus ones that help it be monopoly of it if it is to be so.

Hope I made sense here .

we need to make it so that there is a MINIMUM of 1 sulpher per 4 civs so when the ammount falls under that in gives an increased possibility for sulphur to spawn
I was talking about what you are...

 

[zappara]

we need to make it so that there is a MINIMUM of 1 sulpher per 4 civs so when the ammount falls under that in gives an increased possibility for sulphur to spawn

The maps I've generated usually spawned 1 sulphur per 1 civ...

Problem with that:

Suppose I start with 2-4 civs and let BarbarianCivs and Revolutions spawn many, many more civs later on? That would disrupt your solution. We need other methods of spawning resources correctly so that when a new civ come into its own, it have some necessary resources plus bonus ones that help it be monopoly of it if it is to be so.

Hope I made sense here .

Solution: Random events. For example volcanoes could be set to spawn new sulphur resources...

 

[Killtech]

The maps I've generated usually spawned 1 sulphur per 1 civ...

That sounds very ok. i've played on torical archipelago (continents) maps so far. mostly there were one or sometimes two sulphur resources in the habitable map regions and usually around 2 sources somewhere in the poles region. map sizes were large or huge with low sea levels and 30 starting civs (but usually rises up to 40 through barbarians and relolutions). but i playing with AND so it's highly possible my problem has its source there. otherwise i cannot explain the big difference in our observations.

in no game i have played so far any of my major opponents possessed a single sulphur. acquiring most resources form trade - for me or any AI - is never possible because the case where a civ has access to multiple resources is just too rare. however the quantities and distribution of iron and copper seem alright. maybe sulphur should be generated analogue?

Solution: Random events. For example volcanoes could be set to spawn new sulphur resources...

could events depend on the amount of a resource type and civ count? this could solve the problem for good.

 

[Bobisback]

The maps I've generated usually spawned 1 sulphur per 1 civ...

Solution: Random events. For example volcanoes could be set to spawn new sulphur resources...

This could be an interesting idea.

 

[generalstaff]

This could be an interesting idea.

I agree. Lose a town, but gain Sulphur. Now if some other "bad" events which cannot be bought off have the chance to have "good" effects, I would feel much better about getting hit by three hurricanes and an earthquake before the Medieval Age.

 

[civ_king]

I agree. Lose a town, but gain Sulphur. Now if some other "bad" events which cannot be bought off have the chance to have "good" effects, I would feel much better about getting hit by three hurricanes and an earthquake before the Medieval Age.

In the aftermath of the mountainside crumbling on to part of the [cityname] new resources of [random visible metal]

because of the volcano that erupted you citizens of [cityname] have discovered a new source of [Sulpher or Obsidian]

 

[generalstaff]

In the aftermath of the mountainside crumbling on to part of the [cityname] new resources of [random visible mineral]

In a subsequent aftershock of the earthquake, the ground splits open, revealing a new source of oil.

 

[civ_king]

In a subsequent aftershock of the earthquake, the ground splits open, revealing a new source of oil.

we should have it sometimes that the resources come from events so they are mixed bags not "that sucked"

 

[generalstaff]

we should have it sometimes that the resources come from events so they are mixed bags not "that sucked"

I agree. Bad events should fall into two categories: Mixed Bag (chance for a resource, temporary bonus, etc.) or have a buy out. Just having the "Oh Noes!" option really annoys me sometimes.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, sometimes that's all you can do. The plague option before Medicine is devastating! In one recent game of mine, a level 11 city dropped to 7 cities and three nearby cities also caught the plague. I made the executive decision to wimp out and reload the previous turn's autosave.

 

[zappara]

could events depend on the amount of a resource type and civ count? this could solve the problem for good.

Yes, random event triggers can be made to depend on all kinds of things - though more complex prerequisities need bit of python, like in this case.

Well, sometimes that's all you can do. The plague option before Medicine is devastating! In one recent game of mine, a level 11 city dropped to 7 cities and three nearby cities also caught the plague. I made the executive decision to wimp out and reload the previous turn's autosave.

Be happy that this particular event isn't as devastating as it was in real life I thought it wouldn't be fun if most player cities die in plague epidemics...


About early mounted units:

In history the chariot units were really feared opponents (Hittites caused huge blows to Egyptian armies with chariots). I've read some suggestions here on the forums how to improve these units and I'll probably make some changes. I've been thinking to add Chariot Archer units since now there's graphics available for them, they could upgrade to Horse Archers but the question is how to make them different from regular Chariots and is there need for another unit for these early eras?

If you have anything to add how these units should be modified, let me know (in this thread).

 

[Afforess]

About early mounted units:

In history the chariot units were really feared opponents (Hittites caused huge blows to Egyptian armies with chariots). I've read some suggestions here on the forums how to improve these units and I'll probably make some changes. I've been thinking to add Chariot Archer units since now there's graphics available for them, they could upgrade to Horse Archers but the question is how to make them different from regular Chariots and is there need for another unit for these early eras?

If you have anything to add how these units should be modified, let me know (in this thread).

I boosted those units in Better ROM. You could see what I did...

View attachment Better_RoM_CIV4UnitInfos.rar

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well, sometimes that's all you can do. The plague option before Medicine is devastating! In one recent game of mine, a level 11 city dropped to 7 cities and three nearby cities also caught the plague. I made the executive decision to wimp out and reload the previous turn's autosave.

Yes, random event triggers can be made to depend on all kinds of things - though more complex prerequisities need bit of python, like in this case.

Be happy that this particular event isn't as devastating as it was in real life I thought it wouldn't be fun if most player cities die in plague epidemics...

In Eusebius' mod when small pox hit your civ every city would loose much of their pop. (pop dropped to square root of original pop, I think, eg size 16 became size 4). At first I was horrified but then saw that it was basically balanced since it struck your neighbours at about the same time. It did not take too long for cities to grow back since you had all that worked land and other infrastructure. Later outbreaks were not as bad since your pop had some imunity.

 

[NCC1017spock]

I was wondering, I am a huge into the civil war era, and I was wondering if we could add some country-specific units to the game for that era...

(one thing is, I find it hard to wage war in any one certin era, most real wars I play start in one era, and end in the next... a problem when I want to have like a world war 2 era war (with that era's tech) and get all modern times units mixed into it or like a civil war era war and end up using/fighting infantry that looks like world war 2 soldiers)

Union Soldier (replace rifleman for America?)

and Zouave's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zouave

For Union, Confed's and the French... (we need a confederacy faction I think?)

The gatling gun, for the Union, something that would have advantage vs infantry?
Maybe the cannon model could simply be re-skinned where the barrle is? and a machine gun firing sound/muzzule flash?

and prehapes an early rifleman unit? Like world war 1 infantry.....? To better fill the gap?

 

[Arakhor]

That's an awful lot of work for a specifically American period in history. It would be like me requesting an additional Lancastrian or Plantaganet faction around the 15th Century because I'm an aficionado of the Wars of the Roses.