Rise of Mankind v2.0 discussion

[JosEPh_II]

Some of you still are not getting what "No state religion" listing in the civic means. It isn't a drawback or a benefit, it is nothing at all, it is benign, an oddity of the game engine that means nothing.

A civic (such theocracy) either grants you the ability to suppress the spread of non-state religions in your cities or it does not. All the other options in the same civic category as theocracy work as normal, is that any religion has the potential to spread to your cities.

Whether or not you have a state religion is not even chosen on the civic screen, you do that on the religion screen.

"No state religion" would be better described as "Any religion may spread to your cities" Where as the other (theocracy, etc) should read "Only the state religion may spread to your cities."

If it remains confusing for people perhaps change the TXT_KEYs for them if that is at all possible.

<snip>.

Alright then I quess I better refine and re-examine my perceptions on State vs No State and the Gov't and religious Civics in general then.

Something just *seems* to be a bit off. Or carries a greater *slant* in one direction than others. In previous RoM incarnations Hereditary seemed useful and appropriate for the early eras. Now it just doesn't seem to be useable unless forced to. Even Representation is less useful for me in this iteration of RoM. Again this could all be associated with my own play stlye and I'm crying "wolf" at the Moon again.

JosEPh

 

[MrWhereItsAt]

I agree re: the Salt and Stone issues, although so far since I have been getting to grips with the game at a lower level (Noble only, so far), I have each time been able to, ahem, acquire those that I don't have. I have never once started with any more than two of Copper, Salt, Stone or Marble nearby, and it is very rare that all of those are on the same continent in Tectonic, or Big and Small.

Something just *seems* to be a bit off. Or carries a greater *slant* in one direction than others. In previous RoM incarnations Hereditary seemed useful and appropriate for the early eras. Now it just doesn't seem to be useable unless forced to. Even Representation is less useful for me in this iteration of RoM. Again this could all be associated with my own play stlye and I'm crying "wolf" at the Moon again.

Again, I agree on Hereditary Rule. Even when it is the only alternate choice for a huge segment of the game, I have not yet chosen it in my games. It just isn't worth it - I find the appeal of Nobles, well..unappealing, and the +1 Gold support per unit is downright ugly at the stage of the game that my cities don't have much of an income, yet I find I either need to field an army or at least bulk up defenses a bit. Hereditary Rule needs to be at least somewhat more attractive for a civ that owns a few units. Think of how the entire Middle Age period, including the Crusades and Hundred Years War involved monarchies that fielded conquering armies whilst still proving to be somewhat more productive than all-powerful emperors. The Magna Carta and the power of the nobility in England was at least one of the reasons that nation got ahead of places like France for so long. Indeed, perhaps a military-related boost to Hereditary Rule might be justified considering the strong traditions that build up to protect the Royal Family and their connection with the armed forces. This would also tally with the military success of e.g. Richard the Lionheart leading an army at the other end of Europe in actually making progress against a far larger, richer and more civilised society.

Representation though is still awesome with the bonuses to specialists, however I have been using it less in favour of combinations with other civics in specialist situations (currently Theo and either Vassalage or Serfdom, giving unit and building production bonuses to all my cities with the State Rel - and I make sure that's in EVERY city - as well as a nice XP boost for my Grenadiers before I can build Garrisons). I think that's a great strength of many of the newer civics though - new combos mean new synergies and ideal choices for specific situations in the game.

 

[0100010]

My Civic Changes suggestions:

I'm tending toward suggesting to Move Theocracy back to the Religion Category, but I'm not totally sure yet.

Remove the military unit production and -1 unhappiness bonuses for Barbarism, and make it No Upkeep.

Remove the military unit production and +2 happiness bonuses from Despotism

Remove the +1 support cost for military units from Hereditary Rule.
If possible, add 1 free noble per city for Hereditary rule. (in addition to unlimited nobles)
Add +1 Happiness from Palace.

Remove the +10% production from Majority rule. (it need to be a decent equal choice against Hereditary Rule based on your empire layout) Add a +10% maintenance modifier for number of cities.

Reduce the +15% commerce to +10% in Representation, change +15% war weariness to +20%.

Remove the +5% commerce form Universal suffrage, change +25% war weariness to +50%.

Reduce the +15% production bonus to +10% in Police State. Remove the -2 happiness in X largest cities. (this is no different from a +2 happiness, and the +1 happiness per unit in a city covers it fine)

Remove the +10% science bonus from Corporatism, change the +75% war weariness to +50%.

If possible, give +1 free slave to all cities (in addition to unlimited slaves) for Slavery.

I'll add more suggestions for other civics later on.

 

[JosEPh_II]

My Civic Changes suggestions:

I'm tending toward suggesting to Move Theocracy back to the Religion Category, but I'm not totally sure yet.

I'm fine with Theocracy as a Gov't and Religious Civic.

Remove the military unit production and -1 unhappiness bonuses for Barbarism, and make it No Upkeep.

I agree with the No Upkeep, not to sure about the rest.

Remove the military unit production and +2 happiness bonuses from Despotism

I'm fine with Despotism so I quess I'm not in agreement here.

Remove the +1 support cost for military units from Hereditary Rule.
If possible, add 1 free noble per city for Hereditary rule. (in addition to unlimited nobles)
Add +1 Happiness from Palace.

Sounds good to me.

Remove the +10% production from Majority rule. (it need to be a decent equal choice against Hereditary Rule based on your empire layout) Add a +10% maintenance modifier for number of cities.

All I want changed here is the No State.

Reduce the +15% commerce to +10% in Representation, change +15% war weariness to +20%.

I think this might make rep even more unusable, especially with war weariness.

Remove the +5% commerce form Universal suffrage, change +25% war weariness to +50%.

I don't like ANY war weariness over 15%. There is a period of time during the classical, medival, and reniasance(sp?) were excessive war weariness does not have a counter to help control it.

Reduce the +15% production bonus to +10% in Police State. Remove the -2 happiness in X largest cities. (this is no different from a +2 happiness, and the +1 happiness per unit in a city covers it fine)

I could live with this.

Remove the +10% science bonus from Corporatism, change the +75% war weariness to +50%.

Definitely reduce WW. Like the Science boost, but by the time you can have corp your science is booming anyway, or at least it should be.

If possible, give +1 free slave to all cities (in addition to unlimited slaves) for Slavery.

No opinion on this one as I've never used it.

I'll add more suggestions for other civics later on.

I'd like to see them.

JosEPh

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

IMHO the elephant rider and war elephant NEED to have the "build improvements ( automated) " , "build trade routes (automated)" and " improve nearest city ( automated ) " , cause right now their building abilities require wayyyy too much micromanagement to be useful... I've built some of them knowing they would be useful for war AND building, but now I'm just sitting them around cuz I can't be bothered to manually tell em to build every little piece of road they COULD build... REALLY annoying.

speaking of civics, pacifism should be in the education category instead of religion, imho it makes more sense. and maybe change theocracy back to religious civics as others have suggested. also, I don't see how secularism could be beneficial actually..

 

[Maatissi]

Remove the +10% production from Majority rule. (it need to be a decent equal choice against Hereditary Rule based on your empire layout) Add a +10% maintenance modifier for number of cities.

If possible, give +1 free slave to all cities (in addition to unlimited slaves) for Slavery.

- I completely agree with these. How about adding +1 free slave for slave market building, too?

Hereditary rule is definitely too weak. Perhaps there should be some bonuses or more beneficial events for that type of government.

 

[paulgsavill]

Hi there. Just a suggestion with regards to cottages versus workshops. I never find myself building workshops as they just don't seem to compete. I do think cottages are overpowered compared to other improvements, even mines and farms. It's especially notable in comparison to workshops.

Perhaps you could take a look at the bonuses of cottages versus farms and workshops and play with the numbers a bit to make it a conscious choice? I find farms early on and cottages soon after is the only strategic choice to make.

Cheers.

 

[Bezhukov]

I agree that cottages are currently well overpowered, although I'll often use workshops on non-river forest tiles in lieu of lumbermills unless food happens to be tight. Need to look at making railroads less useless as well - perhaps have railroads add two commerce to farms as they allow wider distribution of perishables?

I'd also like to see more wonders like Big Ben in Rise and Rule (it required a certain number of townclocks to be built before becoming available).