Rise of Mankind v2.0 discussion

[Preytor]

@zappara

Cool, I hope it works.
Sounds like even more goodies would be possible than just Plague. w00t!

What a shame, I can only hope someone will fix it one day.

Space race, U.N, and others are fun, but often cut my game shorter than I hoped. I'm always having to play Conquest these days sadly.

 

[zappara]

@Preytor

Plague, Malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis.. there's some other diseases too that were quite lethal in the ancient times. Like for example when Kolumbus and fellows travelled to America they introduced some new diseases to native people there which in some cases were deadly because the native people didn't have natural biological defenses against those diseases. Been thinking that these kind of effects could be added to the game - like when you discover new continent, there would be chance to catch new disease to your empire and it would have plague like effect. I have no idea how to code such thing though.

Problem with Master Victory (was taken from Visa mod or from CCCP) was that in some cases players won the game just after few turns after the beginning of the game, their score just jumped extremely high without reason and I couldn't figure out what was causing it so I had to remove that victory option. There was some other problems as well with CCCP's new game options now that I think of it.

 

[strategyonly]

One thing i have noticed is that when playing, if you check out the new tech tree, it Hesitates for almost 10 seconds and then finally goes there, whereas before as soon as you clicked on it, it was there, right away? Very time consuming, cause i check it each and every time i get a new tech. (First Pic)


I know this should be in the bug thread, but i didnt want to make another entry, Also what i think are python RED words appearing alot of the time. (First and Second pic)

 

[zappara]

Those red words are from Tech conquest component, have to check if all those lines were supposed to be seen. About tech tree, because it's huge, it does take some time from your computer to calculate the cheapest way to the tech you just clicked.. nothing really can be done for it, it's how tech tree has been coded.

 

[zappara]

As a small side project, I started converting some modular BtS civs to RoM settings. Intention is to make extra civ pack for RoM which would add about 10-15 new civs. Currently I have 5 civs converted for RoM 2.0: Apache, Cherokee, Mapuche, Sioux and Toltec empires. Should have this package ready at the same time when we have fully working v2.0 ie. after bug fixes.

 

[strategyonly]

As a small side project, I started converting some modular BtS civs to RoM settings. Intention is to make extra civ pack for RoM which would add about 10-15 new civs. Currently I have 5 civs converted for RoM 2.0: Apache, Cherokee, Mapuche, Sioux and Toltec empires. Should have this package ready at the same time when we have fully working v2.0 ie. after bug fixes.

This sounds great, the more "Indians" the better.

I have all the S.American ones done also, but i havent put them on CFC yet!!

 

[zappara]

@strategyonly

I think most of those civ modules were made by you.. just tweaked them a bit to work with RoM

 

[strategyonly]

@strategyonly

I think most of those civ modules were made by you.. just tweaked them a bit to work with RoM

Do what ever you want with all my stuff, you know i use your stuff anyways!!!

Also what is the main use of your dll?

 

[zappara]

@strategyonly

Just read half of your thread about Next Fantasy War... just amazing stuff there I had plans to make fantasy mod but Rise of Mankind has kept me busy for 1 year 4 months now.. never thought it would take this long to get the mod to this point Anyway if I'm ever going to do that fantasy mod, I might "borrow" your next fantasy war for base mod (my fantasy mod will have completely new tech tree which stops around medieval/renaissance age ie. no hi-tech stuff at all). I haven't even looked Fall From Heaven mods because I don't want it to affect my fantasy mod idea in any way.. though ideas are probably similar even if I didn't look it. Some years ago I modded Morrowind for couple years and you could say that I'm pretty familiar with Elderscrolls lore, plus I've read huge amount of fantasy novels past 15 years and played almost all PC rpg games so you could say I got fairly good knowledge amount what fantasy games are like... just want to make some own mods about them.

Main use of that DLL was to just add Bhruic's patch.. but now I found new one that allows 34civs and with up to 40 civs+colonies, included it in 2.005beta patch. I might later change to one that has more functions but if Kalimakhus is making RevolutionDCM addon for RoM2.0 I probably don't have to update DLL anymore...

 

[0100010]

3. How should unit/building/wonders/tech effects be changed?

Units:
Re-name Unique French Chevalier unit to Knights Hospitaller,
Re-name Unique German Chevalier to Teutonic Knights
Re-name existing Teutonic Knight (Heavy Swordsman) to something else (Teutonic Swordsman?)

Buildings:
Remove the Glassmith's +15%C (Base Commerce Rate),

Add Pearls to the Jeweler's happy faces, remove it from the Bazaar.

Don't make the Bazaar require resources to construct, if the below is done.

New Upgradable building Path:
Bazaar->Market + Grocer ->Supermarket->Shopping District
(yes Supermarket should obsolete/trigger removal of both Grocer & Market)
Reduce Bazaar wealth bonus to 10%.
Remove Pearls from the Bazaar happy faces.
Add Fur to the Bazaar Happy Faces
Add Cotton, Spices to Forum Happy Faces
Add Spices to Forum/Market happy faces
Remove Whale.from Forum/Market Happy Faces.
Make Market/Forum require Bazaar.
Reduce Grocer/Apothecary wealth bonus to 20%.
Reduce Grocer/Apothecary to 1 Merchant citizen
Make Supermarket the following:
Allow 3 merchant citizens
40% wealth rate
+1 health [Banana, Spices, Wine, Sugar, Lemon, Cow, Deer, Pig, Sheep, Potatoes]
+1 happy [Silk, Cotton, Spices, Coffee, Wine] (Fur & Ivory should be obsolete by now)
+1F, +5 C

Make Shopping District do everything the supermarket can plus the Following:
additional +5 C (totals 10 just like current)
additional +5% wealth bonus.(totaling 45%)
add happy bonuses to Hit Movies & Singles (Drop Musicals)
Also drop the 20% trade route bonus

Change the Mall to Mega Mall and make it replace the shopping district
instead of the supermarket. Additional +5% wealth, +1F, And happy faces (Movies, Singles, Coffee)

(if Tea, Olives resources added include them as well to the happy/health bonuses)

Other upgradeable buliding paths
Dungeon->Jail->Correctional Facility
Sewer System->Water Treatment Plant
Theater->Opera House->Movie Theater?
Arena->Colessium->Sports Stadium

Buildings Which provide resources:
You can easily end up with a lot of these in excess. Consider limiting
their construction such as requiring 1 weapon factory per 4 factories,
1 Glassmith per 4 forges, etc.

4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?

Techs:
Cement (Ancient Tech, pre-masonry/pre-construction?)
Food Preservation (Ancient Tech, reqs Naturopathy & (Hunting or Fishing), reveals Salt, enables Butchery & Fisherman's Hut)
Concrete (Classical/Medieval, pre-architecture?)
Spinning Wheel (late Medieval, important for improvements to textile manufacture)
allow it to Add a Textile building, +1 Happy: (Silk, Cotton, Sheep)
Calculus (Rennasiance, in-between education & physics, enables Isacc Newton's College)
Cryptography
Brewing
Blast Furnace (post Iron Working, allows actual Cast Iron & Early Steel)

http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/Subjects.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_technology

5. What religions should be added?
The current (2.0) quantity is sufficient.

6. How existing religions could be modified to be more unique?
See above.

7. What Corporations should be added?
Fabulous Fabrics (Sheep, Silk, Cotton) + culture/coin, happy faces? (Great Artist)
Burgerworld (Cow, Wheat, Potatoes, Sugar) (Great Merchant) effects?
The M.I.C. (Ammunition, Steel, Aluminum, Uranium, Oil Products) (Great Engineer/Great Spy) +prodcution bonus%, +military unit production%

8. How existing Corporations could be modified to be more unique?
Don't know right now.

9. What resources & improvements could be added?
Resources:
Tobacco +1C, +3C w/ plantation. +1 Happy, obsolete w/ Ecology or Modern Healthcare
Tea, +1C, +3C w/plantation +1 Happy, +1 Health w/Grocer
Olives +1F, +3C w/ plantation, +1 Health, +1 Health w/ Grocer
Hops
Barley

Improvedments:
Paved Roads: (middle tier of roads in between early roads & railroad)
(enabled by Engineering, remove +1 road movement from Engineering)
Paved Roads give 1/3 MP (build over early unpaved 1/2 MP roads)

Terraforming in the late game? (Alter the base terrain)
Artifical Islands.

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?
Make Salt +1H, +4C w/ quarry.
In general Make salt more strategic, Wars were fought over it, so give civs a reason to.
It's main function is in food preservation which really impacts armies before the invention
of the Tin Can. Maybe possessing it can reduce army maintenace costs somehow.
Maybe make early ocean going ships require salt, to symbolism the need to preserve the crew's
food.

11. What events could be added?
Consider increaing the event frequency a little bit.(I know we can tweak it ourselves)
Fix existing events, especially quests which should be made to obsolete at the newly changed
starting Era Techs.

12. Other changes?
New Civic Category: Military Service (no particular order, not sure which techs to enable each part)
each at, though some are obvious)
(Areas of effect would be war weariness, XP Bonus, unit upkeep, m.unit production rate, ability to draft)
Tribal Warriors (default)
Trained Militia
Contract Mercenaries
Compulsory Service
Volunteer Army
Clone & Robotic Army.

 

[RobO]

Some years ago I modded Morrowind for couple years and you could say that I'm pretty familiar with Elderscrolls lore, plus I've read huge amount of fantasy novels past 15 years and played almost all PC rpg games so you could say I got fairly good knowledge amount what fantasy games are like... just want to make some own mods about them.

Just out of curiosuty: What Morrowind mods did you make? I have a ton of MW mods on my hard drive. My problem at the moment is that the game bogs down if I use all those mods I find essential. Morrowind is great, but it wasn't programmed for efficiency. Fortunately I can play RoM instead

 

[zappara]

Just out of curiosuty: What Morrowind mods did you make? I have a ton of MW mods on my hard drive. My problem at the moment is that the game bogs down if I use all those mods I find essential. Morrowind is great, but it wasn't programmed for efficiency. Fortunately I can play RoM instead

Isle of Thumzand, Tombs Expanded, Disturb the Dead, Temperature mods and few others... Tried to mod Oblivion too but somehow that game didn't give the same "feel" for me as Morrowind did. Waiting Fallout 3 now and hope that they publish editor with it

 

[zappara]

New Upgradable building Path:
Bazaar->Market + Grocer ->Supermarket->Shopping District

I've thought about this before and I don't think I'm going to do that path because if you go to any decent size real life city today you'll see there bazaars, few markets, several grocers, couple supermarkets and few shopping districts so as I see they all still have uses even though the origin for some of those is ancient.

(if Tea, Olives resources added include them as well to the happy/health bonuses)

I'm considering new resources still and recently I've seen some graphics available for such as cacao, apple, rubber etc. so might add them - just would have to go through lots of buildings/units/improvements and change bonus requirements etc.

Other upgradeable buliding paths
Dungeon->Jail->Correctional Facility
Sewer System->Water Treatment Plant
Theater->Opera House->Movie Theater?
Arena->Colessium->Sports Stadium

Good ideas Though for Theater line, I'm not sure about it because it's again same thing as with bazaar - most cities have normal Theater and Movie Theater and rarely Opera House, so maybe I should just increase cost of Opera House to make it more rare.

Buildings Which provide resources:
You can easily end up with a lot of these in excess. Consider limiting
their construction such as requiring 1 weapon factory per 4 factories,
1 Glassmith per 4 forges, etc.

That's a good point

Techs:
Cement (Ancient Tech, pre-masonry/pre-construction?)
Food Preservation (Ancient Tech, reqs Naturopathy & (Hunting or Fishing), reveals Salt, enables Butchery & Fisherman's Hut)
Concrete (Classical/Medieval, pre-architecture?)
Spinning Wheel (late Medieval, important for improvements to textile manufacture)
allow it to Add a Textile building, +1 Happy: (Silk, Cotton, Sheep)
Calculus (Rennasiance, in-between education & physics, enables Isacc Newton's College)
Cryptography
Brewing
Blast Furnace (post Iron Working, allows actual Cast Iron & Early Steel)

Cement, concrete, brick making, cryptography, milling, mapmaking, paved roads, brewing (or distillation) and blast furnace have been on my list among with some other "missing" techs. One plan was also to add complex textile industry (more uses for dye, cotton, hemp..) but it's been hold for now since I don't think AI players could deal with it. Main problem with new techs now is that I need something to put into them, having empty techs is not good thing and for some techs I would need new resources (clay, limestone for example). I might add those when I find the "strength" to re-do whole tech tree, as that's what it's going to need and it's going to take few weeks to rebuild it (besides those techs I got plenty of other spare techs on hold that would be added at the same time ). Just first have to design content for techs and decide what existing things to move where and figure out tech upgrade paths.

Keep those tech suggestions coming even though I most likely are aware of most of them already (I've used countless hours digging through historical timelines).

Oh, one more limiting thing with techs is the game turn amount but that's not big problem as the mod is designed for longer games.

7. What Corporations should be added?
Fabulous Fabrics (Sheep, Silk, Cotton) + culture/coin, happy faces? (Great Artist)
Burgerworld (Cow, Wheat, Potatoes, Sugar) (Great Merchant) effects?
The M.I.C. (Ammunition, Steel, Aluminum, Uranium, Oil Products) (Great Engineer/Great Spy) +prodcution bonus%, +military unit production%

Those are ready made mod components if I recall right? Corporations are one aspect of game that I haven't gotten much into yet. Will have to edit them some day

Improvedments:
Paved Roads: (middle tier of roads in between early roads & railroad)
(enabled by Engineering, remove +1 road movement from Engineering)
Paved Roads give 1/3 MP (build over early unpaved 1/2 MP roads)

Unfortunately it's impossible to add new route types, I would have liked to add at least 3 more road types but routes are hardcoded and were stuck with just 2 types. There was thread about it somewhere.

10. Do you think existing resources & improvements should be modified? How?
Make Salt +1H, +4C w/ quarry.
In general Make salt more strategic, Wars were fought over it, so give civs a reason to.
It's main function is in food preservation which really impacts armies before the invention
of the Tin Can. Maybe possessing it can reduce army maintenace costs somehow.
Maybe make early ocean going ships require salt, to symbolism the need to preserve the crew's
food.

Hmm, you might be into something here.. it's true that salt business was huge. I'll have to make few changes to it

11. What events could be added?
Consider increaing the event frequency a little bit.(I know we can tweak it ourselves)
Fix existing events, especially quests which should be made to obsolete at the newly changed
starting Era Techs.

There's been event about every 5 turns in my test games. You're saying that not high enough frequency? Since events have random factors I guess it's possible to have games without many events and some with lots of them. So far I've just added 1 of my own events (just for learning how to make them) and eventually will add more of them. I'll be going through events several more times to make adjustments, just been time issue and only modified those that needed urgent fixes to new techs/units etc.

12. Other changes?
New Civic Category: Military Service (no particular order, not sure which techs to enable each part)
each at, though some are obvious)
(Areas of effect would be war weariness, XP Bonus, unit upkeep, m.unit production rate, ability to draft)
Tribal Warriors (default)
Trained Militia
Contract Mercenaries
Compulsory Service
Volunteer Army
Clone & Robotic Army.

For new civics I need vertically scrolling civic screen and that is not yet available in such format that it could be included to RoM easily. It needs SDK changes ie. new DLL and I don't think source files for it are available. I have enough civic material for 2-3 categories waiting. Basically would overhaul whole civics if I had option to add any amount of civic categories without breaking that civic option page.

Thanks for great feedback - I see you're thinking the same way as I do.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am having a bit of a problem reconciling the CIV missionary and your idea that the religions Amen-Ra and Zorocastr... don't have missionaries.

Without missionaries, if either is your state religion then you will have problems with diplomacy with other nations. Many wonders are made less effective. The Apostolic Palace for example - even though I found Amen-Ra the buildings that spread the religion seem to spread it to other nations and not mine - therefore I don't appear in the list of who to vote for .

The Spiral Minerit and Uni of Sankor are also less effective.

 

[Nordfeldt]

How about making Islam possible to found earlier? i.e. before gunpowder, to have the possibility of the classical Crusades/Jihads/ Holy wars.

 

[zappara]

I am having a bit of a problem reconciling the CIV missionary and your idea that the religions Amen-Ra and Zorocastr... don't have missionaries.

Without missionaries, if either is your state religion then you will have problems with diplomacy with other nations. Many wonders are made less effective. The Apostolic Palace for example - even though I found Amen-Ra the buildings that spread the religion seem to spread it to other nations and not mine - therefore I don't appear in the list of who to vote for .

The Spiral Minerit and Uni of Sankor are also less effective.

There's couple reasons why they don't have missionarys: historically those religions didn't spread far (not globally like others), they vanished when "stronger" religions appeared in the area (christianity/islam). The tactic with those religions is that you have to build religious buildings in border cities as all religious buildings in this mod spread their own religion as well, bigger buildings have bigger effect. You'll have to use some strategies if you want to use those religions as your main religion. Remember that open borders also makes it easier to spread religions.

How about making Islam possible to found earlier? i.e. before gunpowder, to have the possibility of the classical Crusades/Jihads/ Holy wars.

Now that you mention it, yes.. was supposed to move it to earlier tech but forgot it totally with all the other things I was tweaking in beta. Will have to include that change in first patch release.

 

[0100010]

Since it now founds a religion, remove Masonry from the techs you can get from popping a goodie hut. (Actually, all techs which found a religion should not be poppable IMO)

 

[JosEPh_II]

Since it now founds a religion, remove Masonry from the techs you can get from popping a goodie hut. (Actually, all techs which found a religion should not be poppable IMO)

Wow You can get a religion from a Goodie Hut?!! Wish I could get so lucky.

2.0 Rocks!

JosEPh

 

[molnibalage]

And what about Dale's bombardment MOD? How (when?) can I use under 2.0 version?
This MOD sooooo good that if I can't use that RoM 2.0 mens nothing to me...

 

[zappara]

@molnibalage

Kalimakhus is working on addon that will add Dale's combat mod features plus it will have few other mods combined as well (all these changes require SDK editing). He might get it ready this week or maybe next week.. patience is a virtue.