RLC#2. The Immortal Gandhi.

[vranasm]

got one very quick shadow to 1 AD after like X weeks of prepares, but seems like PI finally lost grip on me ;-)

did the Oracle->CS thingy, got it a bit later 1360 BC which was i a bit unhappy and was a bit slower with expansion too...bleh I guess that settler whip was bad ;-)

expanded to 9 cities (1 of them is barb city, going for another barb city), founded CoL and Tao and have Hindu...

didn't met Toku yet since I am usually bad at scouting...

really good start for running around

 

[Mylene]

A question: if an AI only has one enemy can they have a worst enemy?

Yeps

 

[pigswill]

Played a bunch of turns up to 450ad.

It certainly looks like Peter and Toku have a continent to themselves (though I haven't completely circumnavigated their island).

Got music in 125ad, settled the free GA in Vijay ( a sure sign I'm trying cultural). Just got CS in 425ad, starting on paper, due in 10 turns. Research is certainly slow but economy is being helped by overseas trade routes. I have unsurprisingly adopted bureaucracy.

One of the reasons for the economic slowdown is we've acquired another three cities in the south west. Madras and Lahore were setted in 75ad, Hurrian was captured in 325ad (4 axes vs 4 archers in 2 bites, only lost one axe).



Another factor in our economic slowdown is wonderspam. Delhi completed Parthenon in 150ad. Vijay knocked out Glib in 350ad. I'm slightly unsure about this, another GS will certainly speed up education but scientists polluting our artist pool? . Bombay is building Sistine, due in 6 turns hopefully (having got to music first there's a pretty good chance).

Bombay produced a GS which is waiting in the capital to part bulb education. However Delhi produces a GP next turn (87%prophet, 13% artist) so Vijay's GS will be delayed for another 10-11 turns.

Overall a steady round but nothing spectacular.



Peri's still pleased with us. Peter and Toku are getting on well and have open borders so Peter will probably meet us and Peri in the not distant future. This will at least inform Peri that his tech monopoly isn't as good as he thinks and he may be willing to trade more stuff:



Settlement and initial wonderspam is finished for now. Next thing to do is likely build courthouses, spread Hinduism (particularly if we get a shrine) followed by other missionaries and some temples.

 

[Soirana]

Take my advice with good does of skepticism since i think highes dif I did culture was Prince like 4 years ago.

From what i do get there are two ways to do culture win:
A) Tech to corps found sushi, buy up sushi resources [or have half land for yourself, but i guess buying is more realistic] turn of slider, ride to glory.
Gives better units for protection, gives some tech to bribe Ai in doing things you want.
Generally lot of slower, but lot of safer.
B) tech to liberalism, cottage hell out of two cities and make hell of GA farm of third. Rest 6 has main purpose of building currency so slider can go 100% culture and building temples. Somehow getting hands on resources that work on cathedrals of your chosen religions is good too as both cottages and GA does not help with production.
Faster way assuming you know what you doing. Personally I don't know that way good enough.

If you want go Sushi it is simple you concentrate on Oxford [stone/philo trait helps] and i suggest try getting unfair amount of land too. Looks like a lot of water - lots of fish/clam potentially. Basically it is regular game, just instead of mopping up remaining AI, cheesing with UN you play with Sushi and slider.

If you want go fast way... The hell are you doing now? CAp and Bombay is good as cottage hell out of them, but that is not going on. Great Library as philosophical leader? How many GS you want...
For this way, IMHO, you would need
a) cottage right now.
b) kill Greece asap as greece has most viably GA farm me thinks.

I would skip my ideas about where you settled GA. Is this defined as one of your three legendary cities? No riverside, little +food, Great Libarry inside.

And please discount any potential harshness on me not being native speaker, no personal assault intended.

 

[pigswill]

Haven't forgotten about this but I've been a bit tired to concentrate properly.

My reservation about going cottage/culture slider is that we only need culture in legendary cities. Other cities could go either hammer or specialist I suppose but I'm not sure how long it would take to build a solid hammer economy (guilds, chem, communism). Running artists in non legendary cities is wasted culture, running other specialists means no Great Artists.

Sushi is certainly one to consider. I suppose it wouldn't be a major switch to go for cuirassier rush but apart from Athens Greece doesn't have bundles of seafood. Maybe stay peaceful and see how much seafood I can buy/trade.

 

[pigswill]

Played a bit more up to 820ad (t151).

Nothing interesting has happened.

Got a Prophet who built Kashi Vishwanath in Delhi. Busy spreading Hinduism through OR missionaries, Delhi also got a market. 3 potential legends have 3 religions each.

Got Sistine in Bombay.

Still haven't encountered the Other Continent(s) but someone built Christian AP in 500ad.

I inherited a GS and popped another to bulb education.

Built courthouses, missionaries and a few temples.

Did some trades:
aesthetics and Col to Peter for MC and change.
cow, wine and ivory to Peter for corn, dye, sik, 8gpt.
CS to Peri for construction, 320g.
Cs to Peter for compass, 130g.



Tech rate so far is very slow for immortal. Nationalism in 8, looks like I need calendar to clear lib bulb, next GS due in 10.

Thinking about city specialisation:


Keep going for now. Probably built NE in Bombay. I need to think about where I build Taj (assuming I get it first). If I get lib first I'll probably take constitution. Maybe I should build some military (having a military tech could help I suppose).

If anyone's interested I'll post a save.

 

[pigswill]

Having pointed out to myself that we don't have a military tech I've just traded music and compass to Peri for feudalism and WM so tech trades in the post above are slightly out of date.

edit: had another look at my latest save. In addition to hindu, confu and tao I also have judaism and bud should I feel a need for further religious spread. AP definitely built by unknown civ.

It surely is an unusual map, fractal is certainly unpredictable.

 

[Smilingrogue]

This may sound stupid, but what is 'WM' that you traded for?

 

[Gumbolt]

This may sound stupid, but what is 'WM' that you traded for?

I would guess machinery? As HBR and cal are only other techs he appears to have to trade.

 

[pigswill]

WM=world map (virtually worthless).

 

[Smilingrogue]

@ Pigswill.

Thanks for elaborating. And I disagree. The result after trading may have been sad, but it at least confirms that the four of you are isolated so far without border-pop contact. It is getting pretty late for Caravels, so I guess there's no one running away with tech or they would have stumbled upon you by now.

I think it's time to start spamming Bud & Jud for the Cathedrals. If nothing else, you get cheap temple happiness. As long as Toku doesn't get frisky, peaceful culture should be possible. (I am guessing Toku hates Peri more than you, but one can never be too careful or paranoid )

 

[pigswill]

Peri is indeed worst enemy (WE) to Toku and Peter. Peri doesn't have worst enemies at the moment. With 10 cities and 9 temples per religion I should probably work out optimum religion spread (the more religions in a city the harder it becomes to add each new religion and the more missionaries you lose in the process).

 

[Gumbolt]

WM=world map (virtually worthless).

Wasn't even close. lol

 

[Fluffy_Rabbit]

Just had a longish try at this.

Spoiler :

Settled 1N just to be perverse (I hate cities one tile from coast), good productive spot though (only one gem in BFC), second city east on forest (cow, wheat, copper) and and third 3N 1W from capital to catch pigs in BFC and only one mountain (2N of city).

Decided to axe-rush Greece - built army of about 18 units mainly axes with city raider and 2 or 3 spears. While building army managed Great Lib in Delhi. Three cities with barracks are enough to ax-rush Greece. Headed north east, took Sparta and then Athens fairly quickly. Athens v good spot, had three wonders. Was also a Greek city on East coast with iron and holy city of Confucianism - took that. At beginning of war took out the iron. Headed west and took two Greek cities in centre of island - when I met Japan for first time.

I think this strategy is wrong however. By neglect of expansion, Japan had settled all West of island. Also naturally ones econ/research hit the deck though was doing ok with GLib/GS/bulb.

Sometime around here Roman caravel finds me - Caesar is way ahead in tech.

Peace with Greece, the Japan DOW Greece, almost immediately Greece goes vassal to Japan (only one city left in north). Then Japan DOW me and takes the two central cities - I surrender two important techs for peace. Then Japan colonizes its cities (Korea) so I am surrounded by Japanese vassals.

Built fourth city to west, 1W of cow (clams, iron, cow) - good spot.

Got caravels, found England to East (about the same in tech).

So:

(1) if ax-rush Greece, Japan will settle West of island (bad);
(2) probably better to REX instead and get most of island - I see others have done this;
(3) Russia and Japan share big island to West;
(4) England is East;
(5) island to South (good for two or three cities) will be settled by Russia if you ignore it;
(6) good trading with Russia and Rome.

I stopped play at uploaded file - not sure if good position. Yes, managed to retain most of Greece. Longer term, would be looking to make army to conquer rest of island - however econ pretty weak.

 

[Pengu]

Spoiler :

I axed rushed Greece earlier and eliminated him.
This made it possible to take the full island for myself.

 

[Pengu]

Until 1150 AD
Tried one more time to be a bit better(was doing alright 1st time)

Spoiler :

Tried to do some micro which I never do.
Well, I SIP and met Pericles right away. Took my warrior and waited outside his border and took his worker. Then I just chooked him so he couldn't expand.
Used that 2nd worker well and got the gem sites up and running quickly.
Chopped out SH and put my 2nd city by the bronze and wheat.
By now I made peace with Pericles as he had suffered enough.
After this I oracles CS and switched to Bureaucracy right away.
Built one more city by the cow/clam then focused on axes as I wanted to eliminate Grecce as he was starting to build cities rapidly.
Declared around 700 bc with 10-15 Axes. Took his iron city 1st. His chariots were a bit annoying so I wanted to take Athens as soon as I could. Extra nice as he built great Lighthouse Just 6 turns before I took it. Now he only had 2 cities left,one being the judaism holy city. After I took that city I got all his techs to backfill. Unfortunately he got Monarchy just a few turns later
I wanted it so I delayed attacking him again until he had 2 cities. But after I took Thebes and he still didn't want to give me Monarchy I decided to kill him off.
I did get a GS around 100 BC to settle in Capitol and I settled my GP in all my 3 holy cities. After Pericles was gone I switched into org religion and spread hindu.
I quickly went for music and built the great library around 300 AD. Before that I also the the Temple of Artemis.
Now I wanted to expand west and met Toku and Peter.
Both had about the same cities but Toku was a bit more backwards.
Traded Music and Machiney for Calendar, Construction, horseback and world map with Peter. Peter land is a bit better than Toku's. Anyhow I took out a couple of barb cities on the west coast and at this time Toku settled on my island. I was not pleased. And quickly he settled another one. I decided that was enough and DOWed him. I took the 2 cities just before he got machinery and Feu and made peace. So now at around 700 AD I was alone on my island with around 14 cities. After that I went straight for edu and used one GS to bulb it. After that I expanded to 16 cities and went for optics.
Took me some turns to remind me to build some caravels
The plan is to lib astronomy and use the lighthouse to it's fullest. At 1000 AD Peter still didn't have paper and toku had his 8 cities and was behind in tech.
Don't care if he hates me. At 1100 which getting close to lib I met Churchill and it was painful. I thought the AI would be advanced as I saw it built the AP around 1 AD but boy was I mistaken.
Churchill didn't even have Civil Service and next turn I met Sitting bull and he was even worse off. So I gave him Machinery and Calendar for Feu.
Next turn I met Augustus Caesar and he didn't have Alpha!
So I gave him alpha for a nice world map. As I am about to get lib next turn I am thinking about delaying it. Peter still doesn't have paper even and he is the most advanced AI. Nobody really dislikes me besides Toku and he is a non factor.
The way it is I might be able to lib Physic or steel.
Everyone is sitting around 10 cities and noone is vassaling anyone.
Not 1 war has been waged I think. This game must had been won.Getting the great lighthouse from Pericles I think made it too easy.

 

[Pengu]

Until 1500 AD

Spoiler :

Bah, I messed up and it turned into a slugfest. I expanded to the island south and settled 2 cities(no use now) Then I built the TM, got eco and libbed astro. But it took too long to get to MT and Rifling and I had no gold to upgrade my army to cavs right away. Then I attacked Japan and during this time Peter got rifling
Didn't help that I lost several 70% fight either. After japan capped I am way ahead in pts. 3500. peter is 2nd at 2000 and I need to deal with him.
But I had no cannons so I lost a huge amount of amries taking his cities. Also his frigates is starting to troll me. Now at 1500 I have just taken Moscow and lost 15 cavs doing it. I have only 15 cavs left in his lands divided into the 3 cities I have taken.
I am trying to reinforce and am hoping Toku will come to help me out.
Even though I have damaged Peter beyond repair it is at a stalemate right now.And meanwhile Churchill will get Redcots any turn now.
But as I am way ahead in pts it will just be a matter of when and not if I win.

 

[pigswill]

Played on up to 1000ad.

More pleasant dullness.

Peri built Notre Dame in 860ad, discovered DR in 1000ad and founded Islam in Sparta. Mayb he's trying culture too. Maybe its just random noise.

Traded compass and paper to Peter for feudalism in 820ad. Learned nationalism in 940ad, calendar in 980ad to clear lib bulb, got GS in 1000, part bulbed liberalism in 1010, completes next turn.



Maybe try to pick up machinery and HbR from Peri now that lib is safely bulbed.

A few choices from liberalism, most obvious ones are Miltrad or Constitution. I could maybe delay lib a few turns while learning optics and lib astro.

I'm very tempted by constitution for rep and mausoleums. Miltrad not so much coz Gandhi is a peaceful guy chasing peaceful victory. Astronomy appears tempting but assuming that the missing civs are Christian (a reasonable assumption imho) I'm not sure about getting open borders for overseas trade routes.

I've kind of started to spread religions but not fully committed to it as yet:



Vijay needs bud.
Bombay needs bud and jud.
Calcutta needs conf, maybe tao.
Madras needs conf and tao.
Patali needs conf and tao.
Lahore needs conf.
Hurrian needs Tao.

That should give me 3 hin cathedrals, 3 conf cathedrals, 3 tao cathedrals, 1 bud cathedral and 1 jud cathedral. Obviously religions need to be spread and temples built.

I also had a half baked idea of shipping hinmisses overseas to try to convert Toku, with enough hindu cities and a tech bribe it should be possible. It should protect me both from Peter and Toku and I get to make money through a shrine rather than lose money through unit upkeep.

Its also time to review civics. If I go lib>constitution I'd be looking at rep, FS and caste. If I'm spamming missionaries everywhere I won't need OR so much and maybe think about pacifism instead. Its time to start running some artists in Bombay when it finishes National Epic in 2 turns. Delhi can focus on missionaries while Vijay finishes off Taj.

Tech choices after lib are quite open. I do like the idea of optics soon to find out what's happening in the rest of the world. Could look at pursuing economics and corporation via guilds and banking.

I'm still a very long way from cultural victory (or any other for that matter). Thoughts and suggestions are welcome, criticisms less so but I'll try my best to view them positively.

 

[Soirana]

I'm still a very long way from cultural victory (or any other for that matter). Thoughts and suggestions are welcome, criticisms less so but I'll try my best to view them positively.

Nice that you are sorta building cathedrals, but there does base culture for these multipliers gonna come from?

 

[vranasm]

Nice that you are sorta building cathedrals, but there does base culture for these multipliers gonna come from?

can't speak for pigswill, but usually employing artists, running culture slider and building culture should give plenty of base culture.