Role Play Challenge: Qin Shi Huang the Coward

[Loknar]

I also played a shadow game from Mads original save and it was a truly funny and educational experience (Perhaps I' ll post a report when Mad is done with his game). I also managed to get four cities up before the GW in 1970 BC (Augustus built Stonhenge) and I also ended up with a cultural victory.

Some remarks on the RPC setup:

1. At some point, I was offered a Defensive Pact. I thought it was in the spirit of the game to accept it and also suggested some myself subsequently.

2. The AP is the ultimate coward's tool! Hide yourself in a cloud of incense!

Also, something that might be a spoiler since Mad is not there yet:

Spoiler :

I was totally amazed about how I could keep pace techwise while giving away so many techs, and especially military techs. I now understand why Mansa is normally so far ahead in techs.

 

[madscientist]

Qin the Cowardly: Part III

Well we have alot of screenshots this segment, with exactly NO action! Making up for Suleiman and Hammurabi's war fests! I could have kept playing but decided to save to get some advice on how to proceed.

Let's start things off with our techpath! Music/Fuedalism/CoL/Machinery/CS/HBR/PaperEngineering/Education/Philosophy/Liberalism. The techpath was a little awkward as we expected to get a GS to bulb education but got a GE and a GSpy instead. Nevertheless, let's see how it played out.

We crusied along building Pavallons and military, thenwe got teh next GP

Which we used for an academy.

We made a run at the SoZ but lost out by a few turns to Agustus (well, better to lose that than the GW!).

In Bejing we finally got

And we also got the Free GA from Music which we sent to

For a culture Bomb

The city flipped to us one turn later, bringing our total up to 6 cities!

Enough for 2 of each cathedral. Speaking of which, we got Hinduism, Christianity, and Buddhism spread to our cities!

We made a decent trade with Agustus

Allowing us to keep the science slider up!

Another trade with Gilgamesh

And FINALLY, Hinduism has spread to our lands.

We revolt to it for diplomacy and start on a Hindu Missionary right away after adjusting civics

Now we all get these added culture random events that never prove too useful, but here

We took that extra 300 culture!

And we made this excellent trade with Mansa

I know I mentioned stealing it with a Spy but I just never got arround to building one. One of those games where we are teching (via research and trade) faster than we can build.

We then met another AI that had Qin cringing in horror at the appearence of the Religious Zealot Isabella!

He knows it's hard to stay at peace with her being a different religion, damn what is a coward to do! Very soon afetrwards Isabella builds the AP and Buddhism is the AP religion. Luckily we have that religion and start spreading it amongst our own cities! The +2 hammers per building is nice too!.

We moved a little closer to defensive Jumbos here

And got a really helpful random event spreading Hinduism to several of our cities.

By the time we finished that one Hindu Missionary there were no cities left, so we held onto him.

We then built another wonder in Bejing

Although I never got the GS I needed for education! Still, a very helpful wonder and we kept it out of Agustus's hands!

Then we met and AI that had ME cringing in fear and horror!

SURY, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, being in OR makes our arrangements OK!

At this point, let's look at the techs so far

The Hindu Block plus Gilgamesh have a distict edge over the Fanatic Buddhist block!

Of course when I get demands like this

Gilgamesh will keep up.

We finally got off our lazy Butts and worked the espionage angle a bit.

Compass for free, not bad.

To Be Continued...............

 

[madscientist]

Qin the Cowardly: Part III continued


So we got the unexpected GE from Bejing which we used for

The Sistene Chapel in Nanjing! The city also has the Moari Statues and is a decent culture pump. We imediately start running a pair of artists in Bejing instead of scientists

We got arround to settling the next city to the SW of teh capital.

I was able to get a few farms and mines set up before hand!

The next GP we popped was

Well, we built the Scottland Yard. Now a plan starts to form in my mind.

Isabella came making a demand which was probably one of the easiest to accept

We got the next tech via espionage

Sury then came looking for a handout

Gulp!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't help that we have NO horses for knights/HA's to do flanking damage on seige weapons!

We got another culture random event

We we paid for, 450 culture in another city!

We then finally popped a

Just as we started Liberalism. I saved here looking for advice!

Before I discuss what I am thinking, the situation

Cities

Two are moving along on Culture, and 2 others are lagging a little.

Techwise we are doing decent, however we are in a real risk of losing the liberalism race to Agustus or Mansa as they had education well before us

Finally, diplomacy

OK, let's talk turkey!

1) The GS: I say Golden Age! Finish Liberalism and readjust civics. Even if we lose the race, we want FS for the +100% culture.

2) If we get Liberalism first, I say PP is the logical choice. With the cottages and FS we have a powerful CE going. At that point I think it's time to up the culture slider and gun for the Culture victory ASAP! we also want nationalism for the hermitage eventually.

3) Civics and religion??? If we adopt Buddhism that takes care of diplomacy with Isabella/Gilg/Sury. I assume Agustus get's constitution for represntation (favorite civic) and perhaps adopts FR. Mansa already has economics and if we can steal it or trade for it we can adopt his favorite civic Free market. Caste is obvious. Religous civic?? pacifism sounds like a good idea but all that military will be costly. Theocracy (Isabella's favorite) allows us to still pump out CG III units and OR (Sury's favorite) helps us pump out the cathedrals!

Well, what does everyone think!

 

[DMOC]

Which city will be your third cultural city?

 

[madscientist]

Which city will be your third cultural city?

Nanging or Shanghai. Both are strong in production, however Shanghai has the Sisten Chapel (10 base culture) and should double eventually.

 

[UWHabs]

Go for an ultimate culture victory. 4 cities getting Legendary culture on the same turn!

 

[semirami]

I agree for GA now, but if you win the lib race, Natioanlism would be a better choice, because it unlocks hermitage and Taj. It's valuable to know what Mansa is currently researching, because he'll trade Nationalism, but you must have something to offer.

Civics:

Religious: FR would be the best choice, but you have the capel and I guess you want the bonus. Pacifism is nice but too costy and you must have decent military for deffence. Theocracy? I dont see the need. You won't please Issy, unless if you switch to her religion and you really don't need promotions for protective deffensive units. OR? That is! You'll need the 25% bonus! Buddhist stupa and Hindu mandir are boosted with marble and copper, resources that you don't have. And it's surys FC, I think he is more dangerous than Issy.

Economic: Mercantilism would be better, than FM. The extra trade route is 6-8 gold at most. Let's see what gives the free artist 4+2+(200-300%)= 15-20 culture. Yes I know you can only have domestic trade routes, but you don't really care for beakers, you want culture.

Gov, Legal and Labor are obvious.

 

[Joshua368]

Heh, you actually went and used my modified save. Sweet.

The liberalism race is well within your grasp. Take the golden age and max out the science slider. Stay afloat by begging for cash from your friends. I was able to get 300 gold off of Augustus, and you could probably try for more than that. You can temporarily trade off some resources for GPT. In the following turns mansa and gilgamesh may have money for you to beg for as well, and you could sell off some techs to Izzy or Sury if they get good deals. 100% science on a golden age should get you liberalism in record time.

As for what to take, going for your original idea of printing press seems like the best option. You should be able to easily trade it (and liberalism, maybe) to mansa musa for nationalism.

Also during the golden age you may want to consider converting to Buddhism... you'll get more friends that way expecially considering they have all the fanatics (izzy and sury), while Mansa and Augustus won't really care about your religion. You don't have to focus too much on keeping Mansa friendly anyway, his WFYABTA is a non-issue.

 

[bestje]

the hindu bloc may convert to FR so it may be worth doing as Joshua suggests and switching to buddhism. would this open up the AP win?

GA to tech lib sounds like a good plan to me and for civics FS and beauracracy are easy choices then rep, mercantilism and OR would be my choices

 

[JammerUno]

Has Ankor Wat been built already? With representation ankor wat, and the sistine chapel, priest give 3 beakers, 2 hammers, 3 gold (is it 3?) and 2 culture. With all the religious buildings you're going to build for the cathedrals, you can run a bunch of them anyway, this way they'll give good production.

 

[apenpaap]

I won my shadow in 1796 (cultural victory). It was the highest rank I've ever had with a non-millitaric win ( Hammurabi )

Spoiler :

 

[Joshua368]

the hindu bloc may convert to FR so it may be worth doing as Joshua suggests and switching to buddhism. would this open up the AP win?

Actually now that I think of it, odds are Issy will demand him to convert soon enough and he won't even have a choice.

So if you do choose to convert, you might want to wait until the last turn of the golden age to see if you can't get another relations boost with her.

 

[CivCorpse]

Theocracy to keep izzy happy. Sury is super backwards. Also check her power numbers. Sury is about as worthless as can be....no need to keep him happy. At this point you should be in caste and running a trillion artists.

 

[bestje]

Actually now that I think of it, odds are Issy will demand him to convert soon enough and he won't even have a choice.

So if you do choose to convert, you might want to wait until the last turn of the golden age to see if you can't get another relations boost with her.

thats getting sneaky. great plan!

for civics ignore the diplomacy angle and pick the ones that are best for you. the AI will keep asking you to change them anyway I expect

 

[madscientist]

A very long segment coming up. I actually expected to finish it at one sitting, but we had incredibly bad luck with the GPs which have considerably slowed the culture pace.

Bare with me, there are probably a couple of Posts involved to get it all in.

 

[madscientist]

Qin the Cowardly: Part IV

Well we hunkered down for a long round of cultural expansion.

we launched the Golden Age as suggested, then kept the science slider high enough to tech off Liberalism and Gunpowder. we altered civics to Bureacracy to speed up Liberalsim, begged cash as suggested and cave into Gilgameshes requests

Low and behold, we won the Liberlaism race!!!!!!!!

we opted for Printing Press as discussed, then mad ethis trde Immediately

we quickly review the world map

And find the Zealot Spanish leader is VERY near our lands! Qin shreaks and runs for cover!

we adopt the AP religion

And readjust civics

Now what this does is lead the path to Isabella's and Gilgamesh's befriendment. Sury is OK with us, and he's pretty weak soon vassaling to Gilgamesh. Mansa adopt FR so he's still cool with us. Agustus has only a -1 diplo penalty for different religion, so he has wavered between pleased and cautious all game. I sent him a Buddhist missionary ASAP to avoid an AP vote forcing me to cut trades with him.

And in hope of getting him into FR

He didn't bite though. Still we are tolerable allies, especially when we have even or superior power numbers, for the moment.

And soon you can see we are doing nicely in diplomacy.

So how close are we to culture

Still a ways to go. Once we teched off Gunpowder we changed the slider to maximize culture.

We also did fairly well teching with just representation and eventually mercantilism, teching the following after gunpowder

Chemistry/Military Science/Rifling/Steampower. well we did not tech all of then, but enough to spring some other trades as you will see.

We meet the final AI

Qin runs screaming, say "Save me from the nasty Big Babylonian King!!!" We calmed him down a bit, and Old Hammurabi was not really an issue to us. Most of the round was a series of wars between Gilgamesh and Hammurabi, and their assorted vassals.

we did get a jolt here, fearing another MONTY style loss.

But was not even close.

And a quick view of our power numbers.

Just, Qin just upped the speed of Musket production, adding some Jumbos and catapults to go with our Cho-Nuks.

The beggars still came a coming, and we kept caving in

However, we made as many trades as we could, as the acquired techs often led to other trades, or tribute demands that helped our diplomacy.

Once we got Banking we changed civics again.

And while ge got 1 GA that we used a culture Bomb on (nanKing), that was the last.

We used him for an academy in GuangZhou

And as suggested before, used these worthless techs for diplomatic fodder

I should note we did try to build several wonders, Taj, Versailes etc... all of which we lost to Agustus which worked out well enough as we always had a healthy treasury. No AI ever asked us for gold which was great.

And you can see diplomacy is doing JUST FINE!!!!!!!!!!!

To Be Continued

 

[madscientist]

Qin teh Cowardly: Part IV continued

Sometimes we simply cannot pull of trades fast enough

Well, a missed chance there.

We start meeting some vassals

We basically paid little attention to them.

Our next GP

well damned, no wonders to Build!!!! We held him thinking of a future GA if we get a GS or perhaps if we can luck out to trade for democracy before the SoL get's built.

And

Yes, once again we gift PP to another AI.

And even the Nasty Babylonian King demands something from us.

Now the espionage game still produced some serious advantages for us

WOW!!! The slider at 0% science and we are still closing in on rifling!

And I think Mansa knew we stole it because he demanded this

OK, MM not a problem.

It really took a while be eventually Sury came up with this demand

we revolted to OR, just waiting for Isabella to come and demand we switch back.

And another trade with Gilgamesh.

Well we have no horses, but we certainly can trade this arround.

At this point the next GP we popped was another GE!!! So now I am desperately looking to trade for Democracy. Unfortunately we did NOT have enough to pry it away from MM or Isabella and Agustus refused to trade it!

However, we did get steel for Mansa Musa!!

Cannons Baby!! Qin is feeling really good about that trade! So we have grenaders and cannons! Good enough for defense until we hit the Culture goals I think.

So what I did was use one of the saved GEs to rush IronWorks

In Shanghai which is our Military production city!

Well, you know Qin is a real Craven when he allows colonies to make demands of the Chinese people.

We held off for a very longtime, but eventually traded for economics

Castles provided that nice trade route, but I am thinking of accessing Corporation eventually So I am considering dropping Mercantilism for Free Market.

Finally Isabella get's arround to demanding we revolt to theocracy, which we agree to

We then adopted Free Market and made this trade

So that is bringing in a much higher amount of commerce than the free specialist was getting us in direct culture!.

And yet more demands for free handouts

Once again, it's amazing how well we are teching considering teh free techs we have handed out and the 0% slider.

To Be Continued...............

 

[madscientist]

Qin teh Cowardly: Part IV continued

We then got yet another unwanted GP

we launched a Golden Age here with the saved GE

Correction to the previous post, we are STILL in MERCANTILISM!

At teh start of the GA

We adjusted civics

And the info screen now

Adding ALOT of commerce!

we then bribed MM to switch to his favorite civic

Which was a waste because 10 turns later we reolted to State Property!

we finally got to finish rifling

Allowing us to defend ourselves with rifles/cannons/grenaders!

Of course Isabella imediately demanded Rifling from us.

And surpisingly we found we are in the race to chair the AP

Unfortunately not enough votes to get it.

And we inch ever closer to even stronger defensive techs

At the end of teh GA we saved the game, looking at the next tech to get

OK, let's take a look at where we are at

Cities

Note we need less that 200 turns for each of the big three cities.

And after Steam Power we find

Yes we do have coal for the IronWorks!

The tech situation.

As you can, we are sort of out of trade options now.

The Glance Screen

So that's where we are at.

Now the question is what do we tech next, and do I up the science slider back to 80% to tech off Assembly line (assuming I can trade it for Railraod and maybe Combustion) or simply Keep the culture up and rely on rifles and grenaders for defense!

 

[apenpaap]

Keep the culture as high as possible, and neglect science. Rifles and grenades will probably be enough. (in my shadow, I didn't even get them, and stuck with muskets and maces)

 

[UWHabs]

Given that you're pretty happy with everyone, I don't see a real point in gunning for infantry. The only reason to up your slider now would be to either go try to found some corporations to get more culture, or to go for the mass media line and those cultural wonders.