RR6 - I am Legend

[r_rolo1]

With atleast one Ind civ in game and after getting GW, I'm pretty sure that we have very bad chances of getting the Oracle. So, focus on the infra and settlers. Priesthood is not being teched for the Oracle , but for the UB

About the 2nd settler ( I'm for settling the first in place ) : We can settle 1 NE of the bananas .... but I guess that settling spot is pretty secure from the AI. Other option is settling 2 SE of the northern warrior : it is a little far away and has a LOT of ice in BFC, but has silver, fur , wine, wheat and deer besides being riverside....

 

[Ad Hoc]

Here are my idea's for city locations, everyone apart from myself appears to favour blue for getting the copper, i personally don't like it as there appears to be land to the east of the clams and if Rammy builds a city there we lose the clams and Blue city grows at only +2 food, at least red can irrigate three grasslands and grows at +5. the cultural effect on Memphis would be for the same for both cities and red would also pick up the elephants.

the other cities are where i'd stick them to get the horses etc.

 

[nocho]

With atleast one Ind civ in game and after getting GW, I'm pretty sure that we have very bad chances of getting the Oracle. So, focus on the infra and settlers. Priesthood is not being teched for the Oracle , but for the UB

Ok, will tech priesthood and pottery and focus on some workers and infra.

( I'm for settling the first in place ) :

Really? Can't look at the save now but according to Thy

Edit: Of cause the settler is NW of copper not NE!!

If it's NW of the copper then it has no food source, unless it manages to wrest the corn from Memphis... Or do you mean NE where at least it'll have the clams?

About the 2nd settler (...) We can settle 1 NE of the bananas .... but I guess that settling spot is pretty secure from the AI. Other option is settling 2 SE of the northern warrior : it is a little far away and has a LOT of ice in BFC, but has silver, fur , wine, wheat and deer besides being riverside....

That may be an interesting option. Having some early happy resources is never bad I guess. Will look into it.

Edit: xpost with Adhoc. Mmm, so you guys actually do like NW of copper...

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

I agree to Ad Hoc concerning the clams.. It will be very hard to keep them. So I'd vote too for settling the first spot in place.

And as we'll get our courts pretty early and maybe every city will get it even before a it will get a lib the spot rolo suggested should be settled afterwards.

Techwise I'd keep headding for priest.

But another question: What kind of economy are we going for?

 

[LKendter]

I prefer to settle red dot per the map above.
After copper city is placed I think yellow dot is safe for a bit.

I would like green dot with cows next after red dot. Most of our potential expansion is probably that way.

 

[nocho]

Ok, red dot seems to be the popular vote now, so will settle there. As long as Ram does not turn jewish, we could even get the corn.

I would like green dot with cows next after red dot. Most of our potential expansion is probably that way.

IIRC the tile SW of green dot is occupied by a HRE city, so maybe we cannot even settle there. How about 1N of it?

 

[nocho]

Sorry for playing a slightly long set (19 turns), didn't find a convenient stopping point earlier. Well, after 10 turns maybe, but that was slightly short for such an early set.

T57 Meditation is in, switch to priesthood. Found Eridu on the discussed spot. Decide to go for a worker first, the place can't grow quickly anyway, it's on a plains hill for the extra hammer and we can use all labour force. Send the other worker over who some turns later chops a forest (from the grass tile 2S which we'll wish to farm anyway) into him.


T60 NW Warrior is killed by a barb warrior.

T62 Kish is founded on rolo's spot... Indeed lot of ice, but with 5 resources it can't be a bad spot if two of those are food.


T63 Priesthood is in. Take the executive decision of putting in hunting before pottery as we have deer and elephants to camp.

T67 Hunting is in, go pottery. Cash is depleted now, so pottery takes a while. Didn't write down the exact dates, but both Eridu and Kish are turned to Ziggurats, after a worker and a warrior respectively. I figured that to be the right decision on the grounds that there wouldn't have been a point in teching priesthood so quickly if it were not for early Ziggurats.

T69 Another warrior of ours that is determined to scout out the north west perishes against the same barb warrior (at 1.6 strength but combat II) that killed the other one.

T76 Hand it off here, as the capital is about to finish another settler, so we can discuss where to go next. Before that settler it also got out 2 more warriors and 2 workers. 4 turns left on pottery, suggest writing next.

These are the surroundings to the North and the West/South-West.




Edit: forgot to mention that Suryavarman got alpha already and has quite some techs on us, especially for monarch level. I guess he's flooded by gold or gems or something...

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

I just tried on a dotmap:



As Charly is already on double strength we are I think we need a production powerhouse quite fast. So green should not wait for too long..
But white as well as magenta need to get settled really fast.. So as we've got our courts already I'd purpose REXing white followed by magenta and finally green.. So keep Uruk building settlers!!

 

[nocho]

Dotmap looks fine to me, although maybe I'd move white 1W or 1NW to get 2 riverside grass tiles. 1W it could even share the pigs with Uruk, 1NW makes it riverside. Either way, I think it would be slightly better than in the current position.

I think magenta and blue should go next, they are in most immediate danger of being settled by the AI.

I guess mr rolo is up again?

 

[r_rolo1]

Yes I'm up and will play it sometime in the weekend.

Magenta and blue are needed fast ... Charlie tends to spam cities fast and we need to block our vital space ( not that we can't take some cities from him later )

 

[Silu]

Lurker comment:
If Legendarisizing with 13 GAs is allowed, is it allowed to capture enemy cities for 1 turn and then vacate them for immediate recapturing by the enemy? Both methods give 1 turn of "None" culture status. A quick owner-shuffle like that would prevent culture flips. I would think otherwise you need a massive garrison to prevent the cities from flipping prematurely as for the enemies they're border cities and not necessarily the ones with most culture.

BTW - never realized this forum exists - interesting stuff!

 

[nocho]

Lurker comment:
If Legendarisizing with 13 GAs is allowed, is it allowed to capture enemy cities for 1 turn and then vacate them for immediate recapturing by the enemy? Both methods give 1 turn of "None" culture status. A quick owner-shuffle like that would prevent culture flips. I would think otherwise you need a massive garrison to prevent the cities from flipping prematurely as for the enemies they're border cities and not necessarily the ones with most culture.

With the 13 GAs at least you can theoretically immediately bomb the city to legendary the same turn you capture it, before you hit end-turn. I guess that's why rolo allows that in his infinite omniscience! What you propose is very cunning , but obviously for the AI to recapture the city it will be after end-turn. The massive garrison also bothers me a bit, but well, someone assured us that it must be doable...

BTW - never realized this forum exists - interesting stuff!

The SG subforum is what got me hooked to this site. Even lurking games can be very enjoyable and often more instructive then most threads in the strategy&tips forum (which ain't bad either!).

 

[LKendter]

I vote Blue, then Magenta.

Blue can come to life now. Magenta needs calendar to come to life.

 

[r_rolo1]

Well this was somewhat dull ...

First of all, finishing pottery:

Spoiler :

Unfortunaltely Sury doesn't think too highly from our techs and nothing useful can be purchased from him during the set

Settled blue spot:

Spoiler :

Met some new neighbours....

Spoiler :

Notice that there is a clear budha block forming (oh, so unusual ). This may become problematic in the long run...

I decided to finish the set when we finished the settler for magenta spot ( already in the move ).And this because of some intel we now have:

Spoiler :

As far as we know we STILL have the monoply of priesthood This means that we still have a pretty decent chance of getting the Oracle. Should we? On other issues, it is being hard to get a decent tech deal

Another thing to consider is if and to where to expand:

Spoiler :

We have a lot of space to expand west if we want to ( in spite of having a desert barrier between us and the good spots ). We can also settle in the area I decided to show in detail. It is seriously food deficient ( besides that sheep ) and will seriously hamper Ramesses growth ( a thing that we might not want.... if things go the way they seem to go , Ramesses will be the hated heathen ... and the last thing we want is Boudi or Charlie marching against him ). OTOH has a resource horses and marble ....

Well he have some diverging paths to follow from now on, so I thinked it was a good time to stop a little and discuss how to aproach the next turns.

Ad Hoc is UP, LK is on deck

P.S I put espionage 100% on Ramesses.

 

[Silu]

As far as we know we STILL have the monoply of priesthood This means that we still have a pretty decent chance of getting the Oracle. Should we?

Lurker comment:

Is that based on some expert-roloism (beaker discounts or sth? ) or just that tech screen? Because both the founders of religions don't have Alpha so it looks like a big gamble especially with Rami aboard (the rest delayed Medi/Poly since the religions were gone).

 

[bestsss]

Silu, (iirc) the beaker discount is applied only to the civ you have met.

 

[r_rolo1]

Lurker comment:

Is that based on some expert-roloism (beaker discounts or sth? ) or just that tech screen? Because both the founders of religions don't have Alpha so it looks like a big gamble especially with Rami aboard (the rest delayed Medi/Poly since the religions were gone).

How can we know the beaker discount of a tech we already have?

I'm basing my reasoning on chances of getting oracle in the date plus the number of cities everyone has. AFAIK there are two ind leaders in game ( Biz and Rammy ). Biz has been busy buidling cities ( 6 of them so far ), so even if the has Priesthood he probably started the Oracle late, if at all . Rammy is Spi and has two religions, so they have a high prob of being making temples first if they get priesthood. Also, he definitely has masonry and polytheism, so it is quite likely that , if he tries a wonder, he tries Mids ( just because it has it for more time ) or ToA ( same thing ). To add, a screenie I opted out of the report:

Spoiler :

Rammy whipped his cap in this turn to size 3 , and now it is size 4. For what we know of his cap, there is no plains hill or high prod tile in his BFC ( I obviously might be wrong, but there are only 3 tiles that are in the fog that could fulfill that ), so I'm betting that Rammy is being running priest(s) using his UB in his cap, and priests do not give much of prod. Menphis ( the city closest of us and the 2nd one he made ) is up to now locked in 4 pop, so or it building a settler or it is also running priests. The other two cities should be size 2 or 3 at most and are not serious contenders for wonderbuilding.So my bet would be that rammy is not building the Oracle

That leaves Charlie. Charlie is not Ind and it is not so much of a wonder-grabber. Also he has 2 cities with lots of jungle in BFC and has no religion in his land, so his priorities should be directed to other techs out of the religious branch ( and he is probably being building half priced walls )

My conclusion is that either no one is capable of building the oracle or they are most like directing their efforts somewhere else. IMHO that leaves us a fair chance of getting it if we chop a little.

 

[Silu]

Lurker comment:

OK, that counts as extreme roloism in my book I wasn't sure when you got priesthood - if you had just gotten it then beaker discount might have been a viable way to know. Though your wording of "still a monopoly" made that quite improbable.

 

[r_rolo1]

Lurker comment:

OK, that counts as extreme roloism in my book I wasn't sure when you got priesthood - if you had just gotten it then beaker discount might have been a viable way to know. Though your wording of "still a monopoly" made that quite improbable.

I just hope that the term you coined here does not stick People thinking that I have some arcane book of tricks in my sleeve is bad enough, but calling the act of having a arcane book of tricks in the sleeve after me is far worse ...

 

[Ad Hoc]

Got it, but most probably won't play until tuesday night to allow a bit of discussion.

i'd have a tendancy to settle magenta, have a go at the oracle and settle the Gspy.

i think we need to get a bit of military going as well before somebody get the wrong idea about our empire.