Russia First Look [Peter]

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Faith is very important for culture victory because it is only way to create national parks.

The free tiles from the UD do not mean Russia should purchase GP with faith as it may be better to use it for a religious victory or parks, the free tiles are just a very nice bonus every time you get a great person.

 

[AntoineS]

Where are you getting that GP are relatively rare from? I see people here mentioning numbers like "10 per game", which is ridiculous. They come out at a pretty steady stream if you focus on them and they don't inhibit each other like in Civ 5.

I understand what you're saying about GP and I also get the argument that Russia UA matches well with the UD in terms of faith generation and that you can use that faith on GP.

But honestly, are 10 extra tiles you can't choose, spread over several cities, a good unique bonus for a UD? (besides the fact that UD are inherently good) especially considering that the civ UA that you already have is 9 times better without GP generation restriction...

Lavra is good for being a UD... its UD bonus though, is clearly aweful

 

[Tinker]

And all of that effort for one tile bonus? We don't even know if the multiple charges from certain GP will work more than once.

Again, you don't do the work FOR the one tile bonus. It's a bonus you get for doing something you would be doing in the first place. If it was worded like "Every time you expend a Great Person, gain 150 gold" or whatever it would probably not come across as weak.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Russia get the earliest UD of any civ and it have no disadvantage like many other UD have.

We do not know how the free tiles work, it could be one per charge which mean you can get several tiles from a single great person.

 

[King Jason]

Assuming you can get that kind of Faith output (dependent on a number of circumstances), and assuming you're doing nothing else with that Faith (like using it to win the game).

Purchasing GP with faith is using it to win the game.

 

[need my speed]

Maybe you're right, it's just sad when you come to the conclusion that REGARDLESS of what was presented today, people would still be saying how great everything is. If 8 free tiles was 4 free tiles, everyone here would say the exact same thing.

I have noticed this too, for what it's worth. No, Russia's unique district is not good - the unique district is good, but >Russia's< unique district, as opposed to >Japan's< unique district, is not. And that is but one example.

 

[Haggbart]

I'm thinking Russia is best suited for deity play (presumably the AI will expand quicker at higher levels) with the ability to grab a lot of land early and make use of marginal land (tundra). Also the catch-up nature of the LUA is best suited for higher difficulties, although I have to admit it looks kinda weak compared to the Chinese tech AND civic bonus.
The early cheap UD will make getting religion possible at higher difficulties as well.

UU looks good, but too late to make a huge difference. The land grab UU is easily one of the best we've seen so far with the rate the LPs are doing tile purchasing, but the rest is kinda meh. Strong candidate for first time deity play in my book.

 

[Ranias]

We can at least note that Russia is god-tier on Boreal maps. They'll get those tundra bonuses and their lavras will get adjacency bonuses from forest.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I have noticed this too, for what it's worth. No, Russia's unique district is not good - the unique district is good, but >Russia's< unique district, as opposed to >Japan's< unique district, is not. And that is but one example.

Japan and Russia pay the same price for the holy site but Japan also have to use a district slot and do not get free tiles from great persons while its holy site have zero advantages over Russia holy site other then the adjancecy bonus it can get but that is another ability.

 

[shaglio]

Regarding the LUA: I haven't watched the video yet (I'm at work), but what is the actual wording? Rather than a bonus for being behind in techs/civics, could it be a bonus for having different techs/civics? For example, if Russia goes across the top of the tech tree and their trade partner goes across the bottom, they could have the same amount of techs, just different ones. Reading the datamined LUA from the leak thread, it sounds like that could be a possibility.

 

[SpaceCommunist]

Japan and Russia pay the same price for the holy site but Japan also have to use a district slot and do not get free tiles from great persons while its holy site have zero advantages over Russia holy site other then the adjancecy bonus it can get but that is another ability.

Japan doesn't need Great People though, unlike Russia which one out of four of their unique bonuses relies on Great People. Plus Japan still gets the Electronics Factory, that's essentially an extra unique if we're making the comparison between the two.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Russia do not need great people, they do get an extra bonus if they do get great people.

If you bring in everything Japan get you also have to bring in everything Russia get.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Regarding the LUA: I haven't watched the video yet (I'm at work), but what is the actual wording? Rather than a bonus for being behind in techs/civics, could it be a bonus for having different techs/civics? For example, if Russia goes across the top of the tech tree and their trade partner goes across the bottom, they could have the same amount of techs, just different ones. Reading the datamined LUA from the leak thread, it sounds like that could be a possibility.

Yes, you get the bonus based on the amount if techs/policies you don't know. They could be different ones. Beelining with Russia could be very strong.

 

[Makenshi]

Well, if for Russia all tundra works like plains, all we need to know is if farms can finally be built on tundra w/o fresh water. If yes, we're cool [no pun intended]; if not, there will be serious growth problems.

Just to be sure, it might be wise to get Feed the World as pantheon; no reason to go with Dance of Aurora unless one desires to double faith generation and has good sources of food. Of course, if tundra-farms are for real, the the situation changes: FtW is not really a must, while DoA is. Adjacent farms yielding at least 3 Food + 2 faith + 1 production will/would be solid.


At least production and space for settling won't be concerns - unless the other AI civs settle the tundra just to provoke Russia.

 

[thecrazyscot]

So it looks like some ideal beliefs for Russia might be:

Pantheon: Dance of the Aurora - Holy Site gets +1 Faith from adjacent Tundra tiles
Founder: Holy Order - Missionaries and Apostles are 30% cheaper to purchase
Follower: Feed the World - Shrines and Temples provide Food equal to their intrinsic Faith output (a total of +6 Food)
Worship: Gurdwara - +3 Faith, +2 Food

This would synergize nicely with the tundra bonus as well as make up for some of the missing food. The Founder belief could be a bunch of different ones, really, but cheaper religious units will mean the Russian carpet of religious doom will be real.

EDIT: the Pantheon belief could lead to some crazy adjacency bonuses. Mountains still have a base terrain type, so there are tundra mountains (+2 Faith!).

Also, Russia will very much want to ally with La Venta. From the reddit thread it looks like Stone Heads can be built on tundra, which each provide +2 Faith IIRC.

A 3-building Russian Lavre with just 2 adjacent tundra with Stone Heads would produce 15 Faith, which is honestly pretty low since it doesn't take into account optimized adjacency bonuses.

 

[Deggial]

So many pages ... was this mentioned already?

Russia seems to be a very strong civ for high difficulty levels, when AI civs get large bonuses for science and culture. Russia will be able to stay in touch by trading.

The Lavra does indeed look weirdly weak. I would expect at least 2 tiles growth per GP.
Regarding the saved gold for not needing to purchase those tiles: Remember that buying tiles is under your controll. You will buy exactly the tiles you want.
Natural border growth, on the other hand, is arbitrary and migth very well claim tiles you wouldn't choose yourself.

 

[SpaceCommunist]

Russia do not need great people, they do get an extra bonus if they do get great people.

If you bring in everything Japan get you also have to bring in everything Russia get.

No, I mean, Russia needs Great People to use one out of four of their uniques to the fullest extent. If you don't get Great People as Russia, then you're essentially sitting with a cheaper Holy Site, and nothing more. That's hardly a good bonus, if anything.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

A farm tile can give like 8 food in the late game so if you have access to some such tiles you can support many food poor tiles.

 

[Ikael]

Eeeeehhmmm bettere than the leaked version, but I am still not feeling it at all.

UU Cossack replace cavalry. It can move after attacking and have 67 strength instead of 62.

More powerful than the original cossack, which had a mere defensive role, but it is still a quite bland, non-synergistic bonus.

UA: Mother Russia. 8 extra tiles for each new city and thundra give +1 faith and +1 production.

The best part of this civ, hands down. Flavourful and powerful. Soshone on esteroids. More uniques like this, please!

LUA: The great embassy. Get extra culture/science from trade routes with civs who have more civic/techs.

Sorry, but it is still lame. A bonus for when you're loosing is not a bonus but rather a consolation prize. Do not want. I would have liked better a bonus towards great people generation for each envoy sent to other foreign civilization, just as it happened on the real life.

Unique District: Lavra (replace holy site): Each time a great person is used in the city, that city get an extra tile free of charge.

Terrible, just terrible. Russia, a nation that never funded any religion, is the very only civ that gets a unique district, with an utterly lame bonus to boot, and coupled with a leader that secularized the country to boot. Uninspired design, to put it mildly.

 

[seasnake]

People aren't getting the full impact of the Lavre. A Unique Holy Site district that is 50 percent cheaper and has no population requirements? Between that and your Tundra bonus you'll be rolling in faith at an early age. The extra tile is a little bonus, it would have been nice if you could select the tile instead of it being random.

The Leader Ability is a filler: you can play a strong culture or strong science game and make up the difference by being careful who you trade with. It means the rest of the world's accomplishments directly help you, which is highly accurate to Peter.

The Cossack will be great, you can swoop in, kill enemies, and move them out of range of enemy bombards. Also, don't forget, with the new system on Unique Units you won't need a source of Horses to build a powerful mid-game unit.

Mother Russia is Shoshone on crack, mostly because playing the map is so important in this game that doubling your options for placing early city districts/improvements is a huge bonus. Also tundra will be useful to you, so you're able to thrive in areas where no one else is.

Looks like a great civ overall.