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Russia First Look [Peter]

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. Tinker

    Tinker Chieftain

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    For all this passive-aggressive posturing here this doesn't make much sense - what else were you going to do here, NOT spend that Great Person? Good unique abilities come from bonuses on things you were going to do in the first place. Spending Great People and building a (now cheaper) Holy Site is exactly that. Now you effectively make gold/culture every time you spend a GP that you wouldn't otherwise. That's the strength of it.
     
  2. SpaceCommunist

    SpaceCommunist Chieftain

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    They're literally only one of two IRL nations that can say they've gone closest to a civ science victory (other being America), you would think that counts for something.

    They could have given Russia a good defensive bonus (excluding the uselessness of the Cossacks, they don't count for being so late in the game with such a small bonus). Historically Russia has had to repel constant invasions - Mongols, Napoleon, Hitler, etc. It's surprising not to see at least an attrition bonus on Tundra/Snow.

    Also they could have done more with production IMO to reflect contemporary Russian/Soviet history. Not only that, but considering men like Tolstoy, Chekhov, etc. still affect the world today with how they wrote, you'd think Russia would have a bonus to cultural Great People (Faith purchasing doesn't count, many Russian "great people" were irreligious).
     
  3. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

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    Chill out, dude. Geez.

    I think you're forgetting that Russia will be popping GP much more often than many of their competitors with their massive faith yields. Each city can only be founded once.
     
  4. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Many great people have more then one charge so you should be getting more then one tile from many great people.
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    That would actually work fine...
    Get FTW as an early religion, that's 6 food from the Holy site (possibly doubling to 12 with the right policy card depending on the mechanics) That supports working 6-12 unimproved Tundra tiles.... you can definitely improve them for more production if they have forests/hills (which gives you lots of production)
     
  6. StrideColossus

    StrideColossus Chieftain

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    Agreed, I'm not sure why anyone was expecting Russia to be a science-power :confused:

    Q - For the ability to expend great people to increase borders - is this for all great people that are 'retired' when their eras have elapsed? If so this seems quite good to me, you'd get the normal bonus such as an artifact and border expansion, or am I mis-interpreting how it works?
     
  7. Danzo_87

    Danzo_87 Chieftain

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    We don't know how frequent you could get a great person if you really focus on the hunt, so we cannot judge whether its bad or good for now, and whether we could choose which tile to add or it is given randomly
     
  8. AntoineS

    AntoineS Chieftain

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    It is useless in the sense that 1 tile won't make a difference, GP are relatively rare and you don't get any bonus towards getting them as Russia as far as we know, and the UA Mother Russia already gives you tones of extra tiles per city for free.

    So Lavra is like 1/8 or 1/9 as good as the UA and on top of of it requires great people generation. This is ridiculous. There must be another ability to Lavra we don't know of.

    Ok it's a UD so it's inherently cheaper and doesn't count towards the limit. But all other UDs in the game are good besides that. This is... bad to not use another word

    And also as a side note it is weird for Russia tu get a Unique Religious District given that the UA gives extra faith to Russia already which is fitging and that Russia historically is not known as much for its religious fervor as it is for its science, military or use of strategic resources

    Russia is the only disappointing civ thus far (despite a solid and fitting Civ UA)
     
  9. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Chieftain

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    Hmm...

    A lot of complaining about Russia, but I'm wondering if we're overlooking a bit of how their strengths work together. The shoshone showed us how extra territory is awesome, but the extra faith and the unique holy site look very strong together. The holy site will be one of the first districts you'll want to build in every city if you're going for a religious victory, and to have it for half production and not count against production limit is really useful. Sure, the extra bonus for it is meh, but when combined with civ based faith bonuses that start at the beginning of the game (add in early pantheon bonuses too), it starts to not matter too much that the extra bonuses are weak. Just having a holy site UD is powerful enough.

    This civ is basically designed to say, "Hey, skip on campuses and theatre squares for a while, you don't need them, and can do better things with your time." Falling behind in civ V is death, but will it be in VI if you can get aquaducts, commercial hubs, encampments, and industrial zones instead? That means you can use your best adjacency bonuses for your Lavra's, and build your science/culture much later without falling behind in those areas, while having a booming economy and a ton of faith and land.

    Now, I'm not entirely sure this describes Russia, but mechanically all of the parts work together. I'm looking forward to see if it works out.
     
    Abraxis likes this.
  10. ToothedBomb

    ToothedBomb Chieftain

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    The one tile from GP is really underwhelming. How many GP are you gonna get in a game? Maybe ten? Doesn't seems that important when compared to the amount you get just for settling. Also, I imagine you're going to want to settle a lot of cities with Russia, so those very few instances where you'd really want an additional tile are going to be pretty rare. Then there's the increased build speed for the district and all that, but it's just kinda... ehh?
     
  11. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    actually 14 tiles with 2 normal cities and 15 with 1 Russian city
     
  12. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Later in the game you can plant woods on thundra tiles and build lumbermills and for Russia they will be better then similar woods-plain tiles.

    Food should not be much of a problem due to mechanized agriculture.
     
  13. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    This I don't buy. Purchasing Great People with faith is certainly something you will do, but the costs are very, very high. Especially considering the cost of Apostles, which you need for your religion, and missionaries to spread your own faith and prevent the silly AI from spamming their religion at you. Such that I imagine Pedro can do this better than Peter (as well as, well, everything else). Even for Civs with high faith production, the current numbers suggest to me that purchasing Great People with Faith is going to be a late-game extravagance, maybe, but not a common, regular occurrence.

    If I'm going to focus on Great People, I'd rather be Brazil or Kongo and actually have some other good bonuses to go along with it.
     
  14. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

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    IRL Russia's science was only competitive for a few decades in the 20th century.
     
  15. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    I've heard that Peter the Great was almost seven feet tall.
     
  16. Danzo_87

    Danzo_87 Chieftain

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    well technically that, I didnt count the city center because I was referring to space for constructions
     
  17. Barathor

    Barathor Chieftain

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    Hmm... all this time, I've been pronouncing cossack wrong. Thanks, Sarah. :D
     
  18. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

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    A decent Russian empire will easily be clearing 100-200 faith per turn. That's enough to purchase a GP every 10-20 turns.
     
  19. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Warlord

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    IF it's 50-100 Gold. I've just opened a random Quill video and the first tile cost I've seen is 375. And since the initial tiles come for free, with Great Persons you'll be getting more expensive ones. Let's half the bonuses since the tile is not chosen by player, it's still much. I'm not saying it's super-duper ability, but if you're going to faith-rush great people, you'll accumulate good amount of tiles that way.

    We need to actually play and see the civilization to check how strong they are. Probably it will not be my first civ as I need to understand tech/policy tree for effective beelining, but could be quite strong, actually.
     
  20. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Chieftain

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    Yet, because you get so many from settling any costs to expand would be that much more expensive. Taken alone the ability is underwhelming but combined with the expansive nature it should compliment nicely.
     

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