Russia First Look [Peter]

[SpaceCommunist]

I find surpising the amount of people that was expecting science bonuses for Russia and not Faith based bonuses. That's delusional. They've never been a paragon of Science, only because Peter tried to westernize Russia doesn't mean it should be raining in science bonuses (and the Leader Unique Ability already takes care of that).

They're literally only one of two IRL nations that can say they've gone closest to a civ science victory (other being America), you would think that counts for something.

They've got bonuses to production, expansion and faith. I think that's the most accurate representation they could've done for Russia in a civ game.

They could have given Russia a good defensive bonus (excluding the uselessness of the Cossacks, they don't count for being so late in the game with such a small bonus). Historically Russia has had to repel constant invasions - Mongols, Napoleon, Hitler, etc. It's surprising not to see at least an attrition bonus on Tundra/Snow.

Also they could have done more with production IMO to reflect contemporary Russian/Soviet history. Not only that, but considering men like Tolstoy, Chekhov, etc. still affect the world today with how they wrote, you'd think Russia would have a bonus to cultural Great People (Faith purchasing doesn't count, many Russian "great people" were irreligious).

 

[thecrazyscot]

Sometimes I despair at people's ability to see what's in front of them instead of reality. Some people in this thread and on this forum have their head so far in the sand it makes me sad.

Chill out, dude. Geez.

No one tile that you can purchase for 50-100g THAT YOU NEED TO SPEND A GREAT PERSON FOR, is not good, its not neutral, its not even bad, it's terrible. Don't take my word for it, look at russians other UA, +8 free tiles when you found cities. Surely according to the people defending every design decision YET AGAIN, would be happy if it only gave +1 tile? Why is an ability you you much more often, 8 times as powerful? Available much earlier?

I think you're forgetting that Russia will be popping GP much more often than many of their competitors with their massive faith yields. Each city can only be founded once.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Many great people have more then one charge so you should be getting more then one tile from many great people.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Surely you're not suggesting you'll found all of your cities in the Tundra?

That would actually work fine...
Get FTW as an early religion, that's 6 food from the Holy site (possibly doubling to 12 with the right policy card depending on the mechanics) That supports working 6-12 unimproved Tundra tiles.... you can definitely improve them for more production if they have forests/hills (which gives you lots of production)

 

[StrideColossus]

I find surpising the amount of people that was expecting science bonuses for Russia and not Faith based bonuses. That's delusional. They've never been a paragon of Science, only because Peter tried to westernize Russia doesn't mean it should be raining in science bonuses (and the Leader Unique Ability already takes care of that).

They've got bonuses to production, expansion and faith. I think that's the most accurate representation they could've done for Russia in a civ game.

Agreed, I'm not sure why anyone was expecting Russia to be a science-power

Q - For the ability to expend great people to increase borders - is this for all great people that are 'retired' when their eras have elapsed? If so this seems quite good to me, you'd get the normal bonus such as an artifact and border expansion, or am I mis-interpreting how it works?

 

[Danzo_87]

We don't know how frequent you could get a great person if you really focus on the hunt, so we cannot judge whether its bad or good for now, and whether we could choose which tile to add or it is given randomly

 

[AntoineS]

Don't underestimate how strong getting tiles for free is. Culture borders are much slower in Civ 6, you see people buying a lot of tiles all the time. I'm guessing the Lavra is actually pretty underestimated.

It is useless in the sense that 1 tile won't make a difference, GP are relatively rare and you don't get any bonus towards getting them as Russia as far as we know, and the UA Mother Russia already gives you tones of extra tiles per city for free.

So Lavra is like 1/8 or 1/9 as good as the UA and on top of of it requires great people generation. This is ridiculous. There must be another ability to Lavra we don't know of.

Ok it's a UD so it's inherently cheaper and doesn't count towards the limit. But all other UDs in the game are good besides that. This is... bad to not use another word

And also as a side note it is weird for Russia tu get a Unique Religious District given that the UA gives extra faith to Russia already which is fitging and that Russia historically is not known as much for its religious fervor as it is for its science, military or use of strategic resources

Russia is the only disappointing civ thus far (despite a solid and fitting Civ UA)

 

[redwings1340]

Hmm...

A lot of complaining about Russia, but I'm wondering if we're overlooking a bit of how their strengths work together. The shoshone showed us how extra territory is awesome, but the extra faith and the unique holy site look very strong together. The holy site will be one of the first districts you'll want to build in every city if you're going for a religious victory, and to have it for half production and not count against production limit is really useful. Sure, the extra bonus for it is meh, but when combined with civ based faith bonuses that start at the beginning of the game (add in early pantheon bonuses too), it starts to not matter too much that the extra bonuses are weak. Just having a holy site UD is powerful enough.

This civ is basically designed to say, "Hey, skip on campuses and theatre squares for a while, you don't need them, and can do better things with your time." Falling behind in civ V is death, but will it be in VI if you can get aquaducts, commercial hubs, encampments, and industrial zones instead? That means you can use your best adjacency bonuses for your Lavra's, and build your science/culture much later without falling behind in those areas, while having a booming economy and a ton of faith and land.

Now, I'm not entirely sure this describes Russia, but mechanically all of the parts work together. I'm looking forward to see if it works out.

 

[ToothedBomb]

The one tile from GP is really underwhelming. How many GP are you gonna get in a game? Maybe ten? Doesn't seems that important when compared to the amount you get just for settling. Also, I imagine you're going to want to settle a lot of cities with Russia, so those very few instances where you'd really want an additional tile are going to be pretty rare. Then there's the increased build speed for the district and all that, but it's just kinda... ehh?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

you get 12 tiles with 2 normal cities, you get bloody 14 tiles with 1 Russian city, tell me that's not good

actually 14 tiles with 2 normal cities and 15 with 1 Russian city

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Later in the game you can plant woods on thundra tiles and build lumbermills and for Russia they will be better then similar woods-plain tiles.

Food should not be much of a problem due to mechanized agriculture.

 

[Magil]

I think you're forgetting that Russia will be popping GP much more often than many of their competitors with their massive faith yields. Each city can only be founded once.

This I don't buy. Purchasing Great People with faith is certainly something you will do, but the costs are very, very high. Especially considering the cost of Apostles, which you need for your religion, and missionaries to spread your own faith and prevent the silly AI from spamming their religion at you. Such that I imagine Pedro can do this better than Peter (as well as, well, everything else). Even for Civs with high faith production, the current numbers suggest to me that purchasing Great People with Faith is going to be a late-game extravagance, maybe, but not a common, regular occurrence.

If I'm going to focus on Great People, I'd rather be Brazil or Kongo and actually have some other good bonuses to go along with it.

 

[thecrazyscot]

They're literally only one of two IRL nations that can say they've gone closest to a civ science victory (other being America), you would think that counts for something.

IRL Russia's science was only competitive for a few decades in the 20th century.

 

[King Jason]

I've heard that Peter the Great was almost seven feet tall.

 

[Danzo_87]

actually 14 tiles with 2 normal cities and 15 with 1 Russian city

well technically that, I didnt count the city center because I was referring to space for constructions

 

[Barathor]

Hmm... all this time, I've been pronouncing cossack wrong. Thanks, Sarah.

 

[thecrazyscot]

This I don't buy. Purchasing Great People with faith is certainly something you will do, but the costs are very, very high. Especially considering the cost of Apostles, which you need for your religion, and missionaries to spread your own faith and prevent the silly AI from spamming their religion at you. Such that I imagine Pedro can do this better than Peter (as well as, well, everything else). Even for Civs with high faith production, the current numbers suggest to me that purchasing Great People with Faith is going to be a late-game extravagance, maybe, but not a common, regular occurrence.

If I'm going to focus on Great People, I'd rather be Brazil or Kongo and actually have some other good bonuses to go along with it.

A decent Russian empire will easily be clearing 100-200 faith per turn. That's enough to purchase a GP every 10-20 turns.

 

[stealth_nsk]

No one tile that you can purchase for 50-100g

IF it's 50-100 Gold. I've just opened a random Quill video and the first tile cost I've seen is 375. And since the initial tiles come for free, with Great Persons you'll be getting more expensive ones. Let's half the bonuses since the tile is not chosen by player, it's still much. I'm not saying it's super-duper ability, but if you're going to faith-rush great people, you'll accumulate good amount of tiles that way.

We need to actually play and see the civilization to check how strong they are. Probably it will not be my first civ as I need to understand tech/policy tree for effective beelining, but could be quite strong, actually.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

The one tile from GP is really underwhelming. How many GP are you gonna get in a game? Maybe ten? Doesn't seems that important when compared to the amount you get just for settling. Also, I imagine you're going to want to settle a lot of cities with Russia, so those very few instances where you'd really want an additional tile are going to be pretty rare. Then there's the increased build speed for the district and all that, but it's just kinda... ehh?

Yet, because you get so many from settling any costs to expand would be that much more expensive. Taken alone the ability is underwhelming but combined with the expansive nature it should compliment nicely.

 

[Tinker]

They're literally only one of two IRL nations that can say they've gone closest to a civ science victory (other being America), you would think that counts for something.

They could have given Russia a good defensive bonus (excluding the uselessness of the Cossacks, they don't count for being so late in the game with such a small bonus). Historically Russia has had to repel constant invasions - Mongols, Napoleon, Hitler, etc. It's surprising not to see at least an attrition bonus on Tundra/Snow.

Also they could have done more with production IMO to reflect contemporary Russian/Soviet history. Not only that, but considering men like Tolstoy, Chekhov, etc. still affect the world today with how they wrote, you'd think Russia would have a bonus to cultural Great People (Faith purchasing doesn't count, many Russian "great people" were irreligious).

This is always a bit of an impossible argument: most nations in the Civ series have long and varied histories, meaning that you could very much excuse almost any unique gameplay thing with any civilization. Just look at how Russia gets the Shoshone ability now, something which also could've had good reasoning on, say, America or England. This time, they chose to focus on the topographical setting, the quick expansion and colonization, and the religious side of Russia - obviously that's not all there is to Russia, but you have to pick and choose.