Russia First Look [Peter]

[indradiva]

With new information we've got on Holy Sites (info from National Parks) Lavra will increase the appeal in surrounding tiles by +1. And that's very good for your housing from neighborhoods and for tourism from national parks (they're also easier to build with your cities great territory). So don't underestimate Lavra, it's a superb district!

 

[SpaceCommunist]

IRL Russia's science was only competitive for a few decades in the 20th century.

Only a few decades? Ignoring the space race, they put a lot of scientific emphasis on things like nuclear power, medicines, chemistry, non-spaceflight rocketry (aka missile programs), industrialization (yes, industrial technology didn't stop in Russia after Uncle Joe died), and so on. Even before the USSR, men like Mendeleev helped push the boundaries of science.

 

[Magil]

A decent Russian empire will easily be clearing 100-200 faith per turn. That's enough to purchase a GP every 10-20 turns.

Assuming you can get that kind of Faith output (dependent on a number of circumstances), and assuming you're doing nothing else with that Faith (like using it to win the game).

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Russia is going to be a great civilization if you want to win a culture victory as the most important thing then it comes to win a culture victory seems to be to have great land for parks and resorts.

 

[Tinker]

It is useless in the sense that 1 tile won't make a difference, GP are relatively rare and you don't get any bonus towards getting them as Russia as far as we know, and the UA Mother Russia already gives you tones of extra tiles per city for free.

Where are you getting that GP are relatively rare from? I see people here mentioning numbers like "10 per game", which is ridiculous. They come out at a pretty steady stream if you focus on them and they don't inhibit each other like in Civ 5.

 

[Lights]

Only a few decades? Ignoring the space race, they put a lot of scientific emphasis on things like nuclear power, medicines, chemistry, non-spaceflight rocketry (aka missile programs), industrialization (yes, industrial technology didn't stop in Russia after Uncle Joe died), and so on. Even before the USSR, men like Mendeleev helped push the boundaries of science.

And let's forget all their religious past? Delusion. Religion was and is one of the most defining parts of Russia than Science has ever been.

 

[Danzo_87]

using faith for great person purchase is not "try to win the game?"

 

[King Jason]

Hmmm - I would have given them a territorial combat bonus. It's thematic and synergizes with their UA. Or something to represent Attrition; which is how Russia has repelled many of the most daunting invasions.

Perhaps instead of a combat bonus, reducing enemy unit's ability to heal in your home territory would be incredibly interesting. Something like reducing all sources of healing by as little as 5 could be impactful - but doesn't seem too strong.

Again, very thematic.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Only a few decades? Ignoring the space race, they put a lot of scientific emphasis on things like nuclear power, medicines, chemistry, non-spaceflight rocketry (aka missile programs), industrialization (yes, industrial technology didn't stop in Russia after Uncle Joe died), and so on. Even before the USSR, men like Mendeleev helped push the boundaries of science.

That doesn't change the fact that, yes, Russia's technological innovation was only competitive for a few decades compared to the West, which surpassed them technologically both before WWI/WWII and later on in the Cold War.

The fact that they weren't at the same level as the West doesn't mean they didn't make any progress at all.

 

[Uberfrog]

People get hung up on the expectations they had for a civ before the details were revealed, but by the very nature of how Civ is designed, their in-game representation can't possibly factor in everything a Civ has achieved throughout history.

Sure, Russia had a highly successful space programme. So did America. I don't remember such furore over America having no Science bonus. In fact, if you look at Nobel prizes by country, the US, UK and Germany top the list. None of them has a bonus to Great People! I don't remember a furore there either.

I was expecting a more Soviet themed Russian ability to do with science or espionage as well. I was wrong, but then I've been surprised by nearly every First Look. You can always mod the game later .

 

[SpaceCommunist]

Where are you getting that GP are relatively rare from? I see people here mentioning numbers like "10 per game", which is ridiculous. They come out at a pretty steady stream if you focus on them and they don't inhibit each other like in Civ 5.

There's about 7-10 Great People per type in the game from what we can tell. With civs like Brazil in the game you'll have to compete for these pretty heavily, so assuming you've got a huge Faith output that means you're probably only going to get, at best, half of some, a tiny portion of others. Plus the cost rises each time a type is acquired so that's gonna make things more difficult when Pedro starts claiming your GPs.

And all of that effort for one tile bonus? We don't even know if the multiple charges from certain GP will work more than once.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Assuming you can get that kind of Faith output (dependent on a number of circumstances), and assuming you're doing nothing else with that Faith (like using it to win the game).

Well, you're using those great people for things other than getting tile. Like building wonders or speeding up tech, or making great works, or using great general to lead troops... generally - to win the game.

 

[AlexByrde]

A lot of people seem to be less than impressed but I don't think they're so bad.

The ULA would let Russia focus on production and faith before science without falling too far behind, then catching up by pumping out science buildings with their high production.

Faith can be used for religion but the Lavra seems to be too be encouraging faith purchases of great people instead of pursuing religious victory. It surely can be used to win the religion game but that doesn't seem to be the best use.

I'd have to play them before passing real judgement.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Assuming you can get that kind of Faith output (dependent on a number of circumstances), and assuming you're doing nothing else with that Faith (like using it to win the game).

I certainly don't dispute that there are other things to spend Faith on, but that Faith output is completely reasonable if Russia has 8+ cities, each with a Lavre. It will be multiplied if they have lots of tundra tiles and take certain pantheons/beliefs. Don't forget that there are still other ways to get GP, like GPP and gold, which Russia will probably take advantage of concurrently as the Faith purchase option.

 

[Scaramanga]

If the cities start with 9 tiles then the extra tile from a GP with Lavra "could" be more valuable because it's further away.

 

[homan1983]

Chill out, dude. Geez.

Maybe you're right, it's just sad when you come to the conclusion that REGARDLESS of what was presented today, people would still be saying how great everything is. If 8 free tiles was 4 free tiles, everyone here would say the exact same thing. It's getting closer and closer to Apple fans who'll lap up anything and defending to the death.


I should probably not get as worked up about the opinions of some random people on the internet.

 

[SpaceCommunist]

You can always mod the game later .

Mods don't give achievements though, and as with previous games, it's not guaranteed that mods will be playable in multiplayer...

That's not to say I'm not gonna make an overhaul of Russia. I already had plans for multiple leaders, but this is something that needs to be tackled immediately as soon as I get my hands on the modding tools.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yet, because you get so many from settling any costs to expand would be that much more expensive. Taken alone the ability is underwhelming but combined with the expansive nature it should compliment nicely.

Actually costs to expand are probably less.

In civ 5
the culture cost of a tile went up based on how many culture tiles you had already purchased in that city
the gold cost of a tile went up based on how many gold tiles you had already purchased in your empire (and was modified for terrain, etc.)
Free tiles (like Shoshone or Citadels) did not count against that
So a Russian City with 0 great persons would fill out its whole workable area at the same culture gold cost it would take someone esle to get 1/2 their first ring... the extra free tiles from GP just exaggerate that.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I should probably not get as worked up about the opinions of some random people on the internet.

A good general rule for everyone here

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://civilization.com/news/entries/civilization-vi-peter-the-great-leads-russia

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