Saving face

Where do you fall?


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Whomp

Keep Calm and Carry On
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Although countries are changing and modernizing all the time, “saving face” issues can be very important, especially in negotiating processes. However, even in same-culture conflict resolution or negotiating, it seems likely that a shared attitude of mutual face concern will yield more successful results than aggressive confrontation and face-threatening behaviors. It may also be important to include a mutually respected third party to assist when face issues between two parties are difficult to solve.

John F. Kennedy, in his memoirs, wrote about the seven lessons he learned during the Cuban Missile crisis, number six being, "Don't humiliate your opponent," which is, of course, a central face issue. By understanding the face-honoring process intuitively, intellectually, and diplomatically, the two statesmen learned to honor and give face mutually in the eyes of their salient referents and in the arena of international diplomacy."


Low-context societies ,in general, include the U.S. and other Western countries. This means that verbal communication is most often direct, and that there is very little concern or need for nonverbal cues in order for people to understand each other. At the core of a low-context society is the belief in the freedom of the individual, hence the term "individualistic" societies.

In these societies, individual rights supercede blind duty to one's family, clan, ethnic group, or nation. People generally try to "say what they mean and mean what they say." In individualistic societies, equality is the prevailing ethic in society and politics. Status is acquired, not inherited..." and, more importantly, "...contract, not custom, prescribes the individual's legal obligation to a given transaction, role or course of action. In these societies, it is individual, personal guilt that serves as a moral compass.

High-context societies include countries such as Korea, China, and Japan in Asia, Middle-Eastern countries such as Egypt and Iran, and Latin American countries. Sometimes, these cultures are referred to as collectivistic, or interdependent. Very often, these high-context cultures are hierarchical and traditional societies in which the concepts of shame and honor are much more important than they are in low-context societies.

In high-context cultures, group harmony is of utmost importance. People in these cultures dislike direct confrontation, and for the most part avoid expressing a clear "no." Evasion and inaccuracy are preferred in order to keep appearances pleasant. There is a danger of losing face simply by not reaching an agreement with another person or group, if that was the goal. Being humiliated before the group, or losing face before one's constituents, can be a fate worse than death in some cases.

An example of saving face in the Middle East—
Spoiler :

For Egypt, the use of a third party was a key factor in saving face for the Egyptians and achieving the Camp David Accords in 1978. Shuttle diplomacy, which is a common way of negotiating in the Middle East, enabled Egypt to make concessions to and for the U.S. that Egyptian President Sadat could not have made directly to Israel without suffering severe loss of face.

The key to resolving the stalemate at Camp David had to do with realizing that Egypt's main concern was restoring lost face. Because Egypt had been sorely humiliated after the 1967 war, Egypt's need to regain all of the Sinai was about restoring lost face, whereas Israel's need was for security. The solution was a demilitarized Egyptian Sinai and everybody was relatively happy. This formed the basis of the 1978 Camp David Accords.


In many cases, in order to save face, as in Middle Eastern countries, respected third-party mediators are needed to manage the communication between parties in conflict.

Among the most troublesome kinds of problems that arise in negotiation are the intangible issues related to loss of face. In some instances, protecting against loss of face becomes so central an issue that it swamps the importance of the tangible issues at stake and generates intense conflicts that can impede progress toward agreement and increase substantially the costs of conflict resolution

  • What's more important to you group harmony or individual rights?
  • What are some of the issues that could be resolved if "face is saved" in negotiations today?
 
Wow.

While I have thought about individualistic versus collectivistic, this description fills in all the gaps. This indeed characterizes the difference between East and West.

I cannot think of anything to add, as you seem to have hit the nail squarely on the head.
Thanks for enlightening. :)
 
Thanks Arcadian. The OP seems to be too long for many posters to get anything started. I would like to start some sort of dialog on the topic but I'm not sure how we should start.

What I find interesting is this also seems to translate at forums like these. The posters here become very devisive towards each other and that nothing ever seems to get settled.....sounds like the U.S. and Iran.

I often wonder as a group (CFC) whether we could impact change.
 
American, High-Context...
 
Whomp said:
What I find interesting is this also seems to translate at forums like these. The posters here become very devisive towards each other and that nothing ever seems to get settled.....sounds like the U.S. and Iran.

I often wonder as a group (CFC) whether we could impact change.

But we have no families or traditions. Everyone is coming as an individual for the sole purpose of discussion. Didn't most people say that they were here to find truth and the opinions of others in recent polls?

They're here to learn, not reach harmony. Harmony is what you can bring to discussions in real life having thought carefully about the opinions and arguments expressed here.
 
Indeed, my first reaction was "TLDR", and I had to crutch on text-to-speech to absorb it. :D
But I am glad I did, because this is a good topic.

I am a low-context westerner. I believe in individuals over group or family ties. I believe in judging situations with only a limited sense of memory or context. I suppose this goes with Kantianism.

Then again, I also find that humiliating an opponent rarely has anything to do with defeating them, so I am partial to some aspects of saving face. However, I cannot accept dishonesty in the name of saving face.
 
Brighteye said:
But we have no families or traditions. Everyone is coming as an individual for the sole purpose of discussion. Didn't most people say that they were here to find truth and the opinions of others in recent polls?

They're here to learn, not reach harmony. Harmony is what you can bring to discussions in real life having thought carefully about the opinions and arguments expressed here.

Nevertheless, users in online communities form bonds from being often on the same side of the fence. I have seen many times on CFC, the same users lining up to defend each other. While the primary motivation is probably still their agreement over the issue, I do believe that they also act based on the bonds they have formed. I believe I do this as well on occasion.

Ironically, I actually feel more comfortable voicing disagreement or playing devil's advocate against someone with whom I believe I have a positive bond, as it is likely to be taken better, and not cause a flame.
 
Arcadian83 said:
Nevertheless, users in online communities form bonds from being often on the same side of the fence. I have seen many times on CFC, the same users lining up to defend each other. While the primary motivation is probably still their agreement over the issue, I do believe that they also act based on the bonds they have formed. I believe I do this as well on occasion.

Ironically, I actually feel more comfortable voicing disagreement or playing devil's advocate against someone with whom I believe I have a positive bond, as it is likely to be taken better, and not cause a flame.
That's so true. I have formed some relationships with people here and consider them my friends. I've welcomed them into my home if they ever visit my city. Many times our views may differ however I cherish that.

Brighteye said:
They're here to learn, not reach harmony. Harmony is what you can bring to discussions in real life having thought carefully about the opinions and arguments expressed here.
OK fair enough but why can't we do something different (here) and agree to try to change something we're all passionate about or feel we can impact?

There's a lot of talk here but rarely has it resulted in actions.
 
Western or non-western?
Do you consider yourself a low-context person or high-context person based on the explaination?
 
This thread is Orientalist BS.

I have noticed a very high priority set upon face and pride in general by Westerners as well as Easterners. Face it (pun), nobody likes conceding anything.
 
Tekee said:
Umm Where does Russia Fit in to ?:D
In Russia, compromising is only for the weak. A strong person, someone with self-esteem, would choose a confrontational strategy and would only agree to compromise if it could be proven that the negotiator had struggled very hard. The Russians seem to fall between the U.S. and France in regard to negotiating styles and importance of face. They make every one of their own concessions seem like a huge burden, and so increase the appearance of benevolence to the other group and to outsiders.
 
Western, Low-Context.

Language was created to allow individuals to comunicate their Ideas to one another. The more accurately and precisely this can be achieved, the better. Overcomplicated frivalities to make yes mean no and consession appear as victory are the path to a tangled mess of newspeak that serves only to further degrade the value of words.
 
American, most definetly low context.
 
great post, Whomp :goodjob:

and I pretty much agree with your conclusions :) Personally, I'm pretty much low-context. I have no problem with giving in, or even appearing weak if I think it's the right thing. And I was never big into this honour and shame thing.
 
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