Scenario: 1940AD on GEM

Just tested the scenaio as italians ... hell are they overpowered. The problem is not so much their numbers ... but the promotions?

In reality the italian forces in WWII had just one promotions "get beaten by inferior forces and call for the germans for help". This happend three times: Ethiopia, southern France and Greece.

OK, this is a bit over overly ironic, but if you look at WHAT the italian forces did achieve ... its not much.

What promotions are you complaining about Italian? There isn't any add-on promotions I gave to Italian. The only promotions they have are those included by default, such as Combat I for the gunpowder units for Aggressive Trait, Blitz for tanks etc.

As compared to Germany, Japanese, US, USSR or Britain, which all have units promotions up to 6, I don't see how Italian is overpowered by the promotions.
 
o.O ok ... this week has definitely seen me to often to late in bed ^^. Sorry my mistake I just got promotions rather quickly, and mixed that up somehow. ^^

Still Italy is doing incredibly well, maybe we have to look a bit deeper.
 
As I said all.... Having played both UK and Italy, the problem IMHO is the same. It is the AI's ability to deal with strong Human play combined with Naval forces. We can attack where they are not.

The solution for Human play is a self handicap "Immortal" etc...

For AI play the issue remains the same that combat is too limited with no conclusive engagements.
 
As I said all.... Having played both UK and Italy, the problem IMHO is the same. It is the AI's ability to deal with strong Human play combined with Naval forces. We can attack where they are not.

The solution for Human play is a self handicap "Immortal" etc...

For AI play the issue remains the same that combat is too limited with no conclusive engagements.

Yes, and a PBEM game solved the problem :D
 
Did it? Well the pbem shows three things:

1) don't give an army into Kais hands ... he is able to use it too well ;)
2) the axis has significant military advantages in this scenario which need further balancing (you did a good job with the germans there) ;)
3) the economic overweight of the allies is to slow in coming compared to that axis military power
 
Did it? Well the pbem shows three things:

1) don't give an army into Kais hands ... he is able to use it too well ;)
2) the axis has significant military advantages in this scenario which need further balancing (you did a good job with the germans there) ;)
3) the economic overweight of the allies is to slow in coming compared to that axis military power

Firstly, thanks for your positive comments on me :). I think I have an advantage because I know the map and setting too well for obvious reason.

But I am not too agree about Germany (or Axis in general) being overpowered. Fanda told me that in the other PBEM game he is simultaneously playing, Germany in that game is really suffering. Germany only able to take Copenhagen and Amsterdam and lost Amsterdam to the Allies in the second turn! Note that, they have a human player of France.

For our game, at this stage, it is still too early to say the Axis is doing better than the Allies. But if Germany in our current PBEM is doing better than your expectation, it could be due to 1) No human France and China; 2) The author is playing Germany.

Also, I did some interesting statistic over last week about the scenario. I can publish the numbers later, but out of my head, here are some interesting findings:
1) America is earning 4 times as much gold as any of the other major players. (Surprisingly Russia is not so rich, but still earn more than Germany).
2) America and Russia are approx. twice as productive as Germany. Russia being slightly higher than America.
3) Britain, America and Russia are producing 3 to 4 times as much food as Germany.
Do you still want to say the Allies economy is too slow? ;)

If we ever going to start another PBEM game, a human France and China would greatly decrease the Axis expansion rate I think. I wouldn't mind trying to be France and China if we have a chance.
 
No way is the Allies Economy too slow. Even though I am not playing with you, I agree from the unit layout that a French and China player (two key Allies) being run by the AI is a huge issue. All the French need to do is strip all their forces from all over to do additional damage to Germany beyond the AI's abilities to change the game significantly. Japan with a Human playing China would also make things interesting.

Even having one person playing both China and France so he/she is not frustrated might be a solution.

As the game is now, Russia and the US are free from worries of a major attack. No way can Germany make an early attack before Russia is ready to put him in stalemate.

Anyway.... I will stop typing and get back to my game as Australia taking over the world from humble hut in Sydney
 
The only case that "Germany is overpowered" can be said is one where Germany in the game does significantly better than what happened historically. So unless Genghis conquered entire Europe, the scenario is balanced... did he?
 
The only case that "Germany is overpowered" can be said is one where Germany in the game does significantly better than what happened historically. So unless Genghis conquered entire Europe, the scenario is balanced... did he?

Not quite yet ;)
 
Actually 6 months into the game he is doing incredibly well. But I think Germany was indeed toned fown considerably by the changes Kai made. I'm more worried about the italian and japanese successes. Not that they are ahistorical: yet.
 
Actually 6 months into the game he is doing incredibly well. But I think Germany was indeed toned fown considerably by the changes Kai made. I'm more worried about the italian and japanese successes. Not that they are ahistorical: yet.

Oh, it is already ahistorical in June, which hasn't arrived to you yet. I suppose you will know anyway so I don't think Martin and Fanda will mind if I told you. Spain has already become Italy's vassal while China has surrendered to Japan on June.

But I don't think we really need to ensure history to be repeated, as long as we think the balance is accurate, that is good enough. After all this is a game for us to change history is it not? In my opinion, the current game is coming to the current state mainly because Britain declared war to Japan, which was a serious mistake. In history, Britain was trying her best to not fighting Japan simultaneously for avoiding the situation it is now in our game.
 
^^ well, I couldn't do more then to advice it against doing so. ^^
 
Why in the heck would England go to war with Japan that early? The fleet and unit positions were terrible. Sounds like your Allies all drank too much :rolleyes:

Been playing this scenario single player, very fun.

Wish I could do the multiplayer but I am unreliable on time atm.
 
Why in the heck would England go to war with Japan that early? The fleet and unit positions were terrible. Sounds like your Allies all drank too much :rolleyes:

Been playing this scenario single player, very fun.

Wish I could do the multiplayer but I am unreliable on time atm.

Well, I think it is because AI France, Netherlands and Norway wanted to be his vassals in the first turn and he didn't resisted :p

We are actually doing 3-5 days per turn now as compared to our original planned 1 day per turn. I wish to make the turn faster, but I think it will be at least 2-3 days per turn in realistic terms. Not sure would this make your availability change.
 
I have made some changes to the scenario for the next release. The biggest change is adding Chinese Communist. Take a look at the first post for a bit more details.
 
Did you decide about the MP lineup yet? I'd suggest the following:

Germany
Hungary
Italy
Spain
Portugal
Japan
Manchuria
Thailand
Chiang China
Mao China
Russia
Mongolia
South Africa
New Zealand
Australia
Canada
Great Britain
India
Egypt
Turkey
Arabia
Iraq
Iran
Greece
France
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden
Finland
America
Mexico
Colombia
Peru
Brazil
Argentina
Chile

Why this seemingly chaotic line up? This order allows for the greatest flexibility in the team composition.

As an example: You could combine all european axis powers, including Spain. Or you could split it into a northern and southern power (Germany + Hungary and Italy + Spain). Or make three groups, with Germany, Italy and Spain as group leaders, Hungary and Portugal attached to one ...

Same lower on the list. Thailand could be joined with Japan or Chiang China. Mao China could be independent, or be part of the Comintern.

The scandinavian countries could be split (Norway to France + Norway), or united ... fighting a war against Russia and Germany.

And so on. Maybe you can come up with an even more flexible order.
 
Did you decide about the MP lineup yet? I'd suggest the following:

Germany
Hungary
Italy
Spain
Portugal
Japan
Manchuria
Thailand
Chiang China
Mao China
Russia
Mongolia
South Africa
New Zealand
Australia
Canada
Great Britain
India
Egypt
Turkey
Arabia
Iraq
Iran
Greece
France
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden
Finland
America
Mexico
Colombia
Peru
Brazil
Argentina
Chile

Why this seemingly chaotic line up? This order allows for the greatest flexibility in the team composition.

As an example: You could combine all european axis powers, including Spain. Or you could split it into a northern and southern power (Germany + Hungary and Italy + Spain). Or make three groups, with Germany, Italy and Spain as group leaders, Hungary and Portugal attached to one ...

Same lower on the list. Thailand could be joined with Japan or Chiang China. Mao China could be independent, or be part of the Comintern.

The scandinavian countries could be split (Norway to France + Norway), or united ... fighting a war against Russia and Germany.

And so on. Maybe you can come up with an even more flexible order.

I totally agree with the idea of reordering of the players by groups and try maximizing the flexibility as much as possible. But I suppose there are goods and bads of your list as compared to the list I have used in the multi-player version. I guess it depends on what kind of grouping we have in our mind (for example, we can't group China with France in your list; on the otherhand, we can't group Italy and Spain in my list). Nevertheless I will try absorbing your idea in your list in the new order.
 
Are most of the changes to balance for MP or for computer AI issues?

+ or - on Japan or Italy to weaken or strengthen against AI vs Human would take a different form.

I can't commit to MP at this time as my work schedule is quite crazy this summer. :cry:
 
Are most of the changes to balance for MP or for computer AI issues?

+ or - on Japan or Italy to weaken or strengthen against AI vs Human would take a different form.

I can't commit to MP at this time as my work schedule is quite crazy this summer. :cry:

I made those changes based on the production statistic I have gathered. (for example, Japan is currently more productive than Germany). These numbers are objective, I suppose. Hence the changes are not specific to address either Multi or Single player game issues.

I have also added a few more machine guns in the eastern border of Germany and also on the Russian side. Interesting, after I've made the changes, Germany can now take over all of Netherlands and most of France (including Paris) in the first year!
 
OK, this is the final order:

Germany
Hungary
Finland
Sweden
Italy
Spain
Portugal

Japan
Manchuria
Thailand

Turkey
Egypt
Saudi Arabia
Iraq
Iran

Russia
Mongolia

Communist China
Nationalist China

France
Netherlands
Norway
Greece

Britain
India
South Africa
Australia
New Zealand
Canada

America
Mexico
Colombia
Peru
Brazil
Argentina
Chile

Minor Nations
Barbarian States
 
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