Sci-fi and communism

[Leonel]

So are Ferengi!

I was watching an episode of Voyager and Janeway was discussing various species reaction to human history and mentioned that the Ferengi regarded Wall Street as holy ground. It made me smile.

 

[Perfection]

I wonder how they felt about Alan Greenspan...

 

[Hundegesicht]

Star Trek is communist, mostly.

Being a big Star Trek fan, I must strongly disagree with this statement. The Federation in Star Trek represented a civilization that had, more or less, grown in wealth and technology to the point where money no longer had value, since there was more than enough resources for everyone. Likewise, there are few large corperations, because instead of manufacturing a million identical items, anyone who wants it can simply go to a "replicator shop" or whatnot and make their own. In that sense, it IS fairly socialist. That's where the comparison ends, though.

Star Trek was, at it's core, exposed humanism and individualism, along with placing a great deal of emphases on personal freedom. Granted, the show was usually about military exploration, so you had the tightly regulated, navel feel on the ships (or space station, in the case of DS9), but even in the futuristic military, the crew can be seen excercising a great deal more personal freedom than you see in today's militaries.

Likewise, whenever the show depicts civilian life, it shows people going about their business with little government intervention, living their lives doing whatever and associating with whomever they please, and having so much personal mobility that they could choose to move to other planets or start their own merchant companies or join Star Fleet if they wished. This is the anti-thesis of communism, IMO, where the State dictates where you work, where you live, what you eat, who you marry... in fact, many episodes of Star Trek were written to refute communistic ideals, and show them as ultimately dehumanizing and immoral.

Heh, long post. Not trying to rant, I just get annoyed at people who automatically label Star Trek as "communist."

 

[LuckyAC]

I'd say the Federation is Communist. It is based on the basic ideal of "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". Production is essentially cooperative rather than competitive. Of course, it is hard to really define their economic system when they don't really have one, since everything can be produced for free. I think that would be when Communism works best, since its biggest problem is with incentives, and when human labor is not necessary, sub-optimal incentives are not a real concern.

 

[warpus]

Likewise, whenever the show depicts civilian life, it shows people going about their business with little government intervention, living their lives doing whatever and associating with whomever they please, and having so much personal mobility that they could choose to move to other planets or start their own merchant companies or join Star Fleet if they wished. This is the anti-thesis of communism, IMO, where the State dictates where you work, where you live, what you eat, who you marry... in fact, many episodes of Star Trek were written to refute communistic ideals, and show them as ultimately dehumanizing and immoral.

Heh, long post. Not trying to rant, I just get annoyed at people who automatically label Star Trek as "communist."

Communism is an economic system - My comparison of the Federation to communism would end there.

All the points you list show that the Federation isn't Marxist nor a totalitarian state.. but none of these points have anything to do with economics.

 

[Stylesjl]

A World of Difference by Harry Turtledove. Showed humans landing a planet with two primitive aleins on opposing sides. The American ship landed on one side and a Soviet ship landed on the other of the canyon.

A deranged idiot in the Russian ship thought the war between the aliens was an ideological conflict and he attempted to supply his side with firearms. Which had nasty results against the other side with only spears.......

Edit: He thought it was an ideological conflict because on his side the aleins were evolving from a fedual system to an early capitalist system (which he considered progressive)

 

[colontos]

Try Moscow 2042 by Vladimir Voinovich. You might not like what you see, though.

 

[SG-17]

I cant remember what the name of it was, but it was a soviet film, where commie russians went to the moon and turned the moon people's capitalist govt into a commie one.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Theres a great deal more examples of communism in Science-Fiction then Fascism, probably because most authors assume the dissapearance of Nation-states.

 

[RubricousMidget]

When it comes to Star Trek, the only truly essential jobs to keep society running at the base levels is that of tending the power plants or what-have-you, which probably only requires a small team of human managers, overseers and repairers. As such, energy obviously being in abundance as we see in Star Trek, all are given whatever resources they may want freely, and get the same amount as everybody else. This frees the people up to do whatever they want: Ferry goods across the nuetral zones, crafts, medicine, philosophy, woodsmanship, politics, what have you. That is, in contradiction of what I said earlier, not Communism. It is Eudaemonianism.

 

[Gladi]

This is the anti-thesis of communism, IMO, where the State dictates where you work, where you live, what you eat, who you marry... "

Uh, no.

Communism is all about money, not about direct control of people. That is a police state.

 

[GinandTonic]

The Federation and The Culture are post capitalist. As people have mentioned once there is a surfet of goods capitalism/ communism as means of rationing the distribution of goods becomes meaningless.

Since such idealogies become unnecessary, where they are still exist in an advanced soiety it is generally a distopia. Most of the "The Corporation" futures for example.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Bright day
You have not read much of Eastbloc sci-fi, I gather?

I have read a fair amount of sci-fi books that while not entirely propganda pieces, greatly espoused the presented communist ideals. Hard work for a benefit of society above all, pooling of resources, meticolous planning, engineering education and personal sacrifice. If that does not sound like Stalinist Russia, well that's bad, and as remedy I recommend Forest from Strugackys, which is picture of Brezhnevian Russia.

The name's usually spelt "Strugatski", "Strugatskii" or "Strugatsky" in English.

I'll heartly suggest the recommendation. Any fan of SF should check out Arkadi and Boris Strugatski.

 

[Gladi]

The name's usually spelt "Strugatski", "Strugatskii" or "Strugatsky" in English.

Bah, there is no "ts" only "c"! I shall not be swayed by your Anglo-Saxon ways!!

 

[The Last Conformist]

My Anglo-Saxon ways? I'm Swedish, thank you very much!

 

[Gladi]

My Anglo-Saxon ways? I'm Swedish, thank you very much!

eh, you... eh... I always switch you and Nonconformist in my head , s'rry.