Scions documentation

[Tarquelne]

Almost forgot:

EDIT: We could also add a nice tooltip windows to the bar to display all the factors affecting the current accumulation rate.

Awesome idea.

 

[deadliver]

Hey so let me get this straight...Aristocracy now provides the multiplier to Awakened spawning instead of God King right? In the pedia Korinna's favorite civic is still God King?

 

[Tarquelne]

Hey so let me get this straight...Aristocracy now provides the multiplier to Awakened spawning instead of God King right? In the pedia Korinna's favorite civic is still God King?

Right, and right. Changing it could be good: God King for the Emp, Aristocracy for Korrina.

EDIT: Hmm... someone beat me to it. Maybe me, I don't remember. But in "D" her favorite civic is Aristocracy.

 

[MaxAstro]

God King and unit requirements: Hmm... I don't think so. God King it still appropriate. The MoPs and Praetorians are both very much expressions of the Emperor-centric religion.

Problem: Aristocracy now gives so much of a boost to awakening that it simply doesn't make sense to run anything else. Which I actually don't like; I much preferred the bonus on God King, as it gave you an incentive to use a civic that is otherwise unappealing late gate. Aristocracy is already a nice civic; the Scions don't need to be rewarded for choosing it. With God King you were distinctly giving up better civic options in exchange for higher spawn rate.

EDIT: Whoops, didn't catch the second page. Second time I've done that... >.< Glad to see that change, I approve of that.

EDIT2: Okay, misread that. I think the change should be more than favorite civic; I'd like to see the Emperor get a spawn rate boost from God King and Korrina get the boost from Aristocracy.

 

[Valkrionn]

Problem: Aristocracy now gives so much of a boost to awakening that it simply doesn't make sense to run anything else. Which I actually don't like; I much preferred the bonus on God King, as it gave you an incentive to use a civic that is otherwise unappealing late gate. Aristocracy is already a nice civic; the Scions don't need to be rewarded for choosing it. With God King you were distinctly giving up better civic options in exchange for higher spawn rate.

EDIT: Whoops, didn't catch the second page. Second time I've done that... >.< Glad to see that change, I approve of that.

EDIT2: Okay, misread that. I think the change should be more than favorite civic; I'd like to see the Emperor get a spawn rate boost from God King and Korrina get the boost from Aristocracy.

Agreed, Aristocracy gives what, 4 happy to a developed city, as well as gold from farms, making those health resources not quite as much a tradeoff, AND less maintenance? It's a bit much.

 

[kdodge]

Problem: Aristocracy now gives so much of a boost to awakening that it simply doesn't make sense to run anything else. Which I actually don't like; I much preferred the bonus on God King,

First time playing them tonight so my head is still swimming, but I would have sworn several units required GodKing civic, but you could certainly make it so that they did, giving a choice (sort of along the binary theme too... emperor or korinna, red lady/black lady, etc)

 

[heisenberg]

A quick issue I've had with the Dark Council.
Founding it requires all 4 council members I believe.
However, the amount of time Alcinius actually spends being "with" you is often very short compared to that when he's barb or is with another civ.
I've always tried to religiously hunt him down when he turns more for fun than his actual usage, but even then, when playing on large maps or when I play on continental maps, the chance that he ends up on another continent far away is extremely high.

With the introduction of the unshackling of korinna at KoTE, running for KoTE early is a pretty useful tactic, but, that greatly increases the probability that Alcinius is gone by the time you finished teching up to get the other 3 council members.
In older versions of the scions I would have occasionally held off on KoTE just to ensure I had him when the other 3 are assembled.

Could I suggest that perhaps it be tweaked slightly that you are able to cast the worldspell even without Alcinius with your civ?
Like if you have had his keep built after all--I imagine his saner mage guildmasters at his keep runs his keep perfectly well in his absence.

 

[deadliver]

Problem: Aristocracy now gives so much of a boost to awakening that it simply doesn't make sense to run anything else...

Gimme a break, why don't you join the Barbarians are too tuff threads.

 

[Tarquelne]

Problem: Aristocracy now gives so much of a boost to awakening that it simply doesn't make sense to run anything else ... I much preferred the bonus on God King, as it gave you an incentive to use a civic that is otherwise unappealing late gate. Aristocracy is already a nice civic; the Scions don't need to be rewarded for choosing it

Anybody else? The present boost is quite large, but I'm not a Aristocracy fan - it is supposed to make up for using the civic.

I originally had the boost a GK to encourage the use of the civic, but given the capital's role as an Awakened factory I thought GK's hammer boost was enough.

Thoughts?

 

[deadliver]

Why should you boost GK when Aristo works great for scions? the bonuses (the farm ones are scarce i admit) are relevant and flavor appropriate. Until there is a plutocracy or oligarchy civic, aristo works great, and frankly aristo works fine as an analogous civic.

edit: aristo takes some time to get, so keep that in mind when you hear complaints about it.

 

[MaxAstro]

Aristocracy is not very late game; Code of Laws is a pretty important tech to grab ASAP. And it is certainly not a weak civic. It used to be, before it gained a reduction in distance to palace maintenance. Now, however, it gives happiness, reduced maintenance, AND extra commerce, making it quite a good civic, especially in comparison to God King. The boosted Awakening rate on top of that makes it very hard to choose to run God King.

Effectively, the choice is that God King gives you access to some nice units, but Aristocracy makes all your cities bigger faster, lets you expand more, and improves your research.

Admittedly the Scions don't get much from the extra farm commerce, but with the happiness bonuses Aristocracy gives and the fact that the awakening buff is now HUGE (66% if I remember correctly?) instead of the moderate 25% God King used to give...

 

[deadliver]

Huh I thought your problem with Aristo was that you had to take Aristo.

With the Scions your outlying cities (which should be numerous) are unlikely to be large enough to put a dent in your maintenance. The last game I played with scions controlled, easily, a third of a standard tectonic/pangea map and at 100% science I had over 100 gold a turn.


GK becomes obsolete if you play your cards right, after all your capital city (the first one anyway) should be close to having max pop.

With regards to your argument against Aristo versus GK you could easily supply a counter argument...if GK, which takes what two techs to get provided a boost why would anyone want to run Aristo (which takes much more)....much more before you figure that you would probably not beeline towards it because you want the arcane techs.

 

[MaxAstro]

GK becomes obsolete if you play your cards right, after all your capital city (the first one anyway) should be close to having max pop.

With regards to your argument against Aristo versus GK you could easily supply a counter argument...if GK, which takes what two techs to get provided a boost why would anyone want to run Aristo (which takes much more)....much more before you figure that you would probably not beeline towards it because you want the arcane techs.

This is actually exactly my point. As it stands there is not really any incentive for ANY civ to take God King over other civics. One of the things I liked about the Scions was that they gave you a reason to keep in the late game a civic that normally falls out of use mid-game.

Also, Code of Laws is hugely important for the Emperor to beeline because it gives you the Temple of the Gift and Legates.

EDIT: Also, think thematically. While the Scions under Korrina could be an aristocracy, the Emperor is very much a God-King. Gameplay should back up what is thematic, but right now even as the Emperor there is little reason to go God King.

 

[Valkrionn]

Personally, I'd like to see both methods kept... Since Korrina cannot build legates, allow her a larger boost at aristocracy, and give the spawning boost to the Emperor with God King... Backs up the story for the civ, and gives an extra boost to Korrina.

 

[deadliver]

I get what you are saying Max.

 

[Tarquelne]

Here's what I've got for inclusion in the 'pedia. The most useful criticism would be pointing out a basic fact/concept I still haven't covered.

Gaining Population
(this is pretty much what's on the first page in the documentation, just updated.)

Spoiler :

The greatest difference between the Scions and the other civs is how the Scions use population, and how they gain it.
As a Fallow civilization the Scions don't need to allocate any of a city's population to gathering food. This means that, given the same population as another civ, Scion cities are far more productive. However, as a Fallow civilization the Scions cannot gain population via food and normal growth. Instead they must lure Awakened from the Bottomless Tomb, create Reborn, or capture cities.

Awakened:

Citizens of long-departed Patria, the Age of Magic's greatest empire, are the the core population of the Scions of Patria. They have been given the Gift, but they still must be brought out of the Bottomless Tomb. Awakened may be "built" in the capital. Structures much like bridges are extended into the Tomb and used to find and ferry the honored dead back into the world. But they are very expensive and inevitably temporary. After a short time they become animate and unalive, like everything in the Tomb, and may no longer be used. Awakened gained this way are expensive. But they honored dead are hard to predict - you'll often be forced to go in after them.

The easiest way for the Scions to get population is for an Awakened just walk out of the capital's Bottomless Tomb of it's own free will. But while the Tomb is bottomless an endless army of Awakened won't be coming: They have their own alien amusements there. The longer they stay the less willing they are to leave.

The frequency with which Awakened emerge is displayed in the message area and can be increased by the player's actions. Building Shrines to Kylorin, Imperial Cenotaphs or Temples of the Gift, Halls of the Covenant, or the Flesh Studio all attract Awakened. Most luxuries will help lure Awakened. Of special note is the "Patrian Artifacts" resource. Only the Scions player can see these resources, and unlike the other luxuries each resource owned increases the odds. The larger, more bustling the Capital the more will Awakened are to emerge. And when society is explicitly run for the benefit of the Awakened, "Aristocracy", Awakened are more likely to come forth.

Reborn:
Reborn are formerly living inhabitants of Erebus granted the Gift and transformed into undead Scions. There are four ways to gain Reborn. First, Reborn can be created from combat with a priest of the Gift - A Legate, a Doomsayer, or a Doomgiver. The enemy unit is persuaded that unlife among the Scions is preferable to their present meager existence. Second, Reborn can be "built" in a city containing a Cathedral of Rebirth. Third, once the Scions have Sorcery and Priesthood a razed city will yield a few Reborn. Finally, the Dark Council generates three Reborn the turn it is established.

Capture cities:
Of course anyone can do this. All you need is a bunch of guys with swords. However, the lifestyles of other civs isn't very compatible with the unlifestyle of the Scions. When a city changes hands to or from the Scions most of the population is lost.

[size=+1]Details on Awakened Spawning:[/size]
The formula determining the odds an Awakened appear each turn isn't complicated, but it is rather long.

The base chance for a Standard-sized world is:
Quick: ~9%
Normal: ~6%
Epic: ~3.5%
Marathon: ~3%

World Size adjustment:
"Population limit" / 40
That limit is 20 for a Duel sized world and goes up to 70 for a Huge world.
The world size also sets a cap on Awakened generation: It ranges from 20 for a Duel world to 70 for a Huge one.

Additive factors:
Capital population / 4
Total buildings:
Gift Temples or Cenotaphs * 1
Halls of the Covenant * 2
Shrines to Kylorin / 2

Resources:
The number of Patrian Artifacts available * 0.75
Then +1 each for having any:
Silk, Gold, Gems, Ivory, Dye.

Multipliers:
Civic: Aristocracy? Then * 1.66

Game speed - the numbers are linked to game-speed production adjustments. Divide by...
Quick: 0.5
Normal: 0.75
Epic: 1.125
Marathon: 1.5

Game turn. Every turn it's a little harder by...
Quick: 0.5%
Normal: 0.25%
Epic: 0.165%
Marathon: 0.125%

Ai mod:
The AI gets a 20% bonus.

Leader:
Korrina has a 25% penalty.

The Haunted Lands

Spoiler :

[size=+1]The Haunted Lands[/size]

It is the nature of the world that everything is itself. This may seem a truism, but it does not hold in the Haunted Lands. The Haunted Lands join everything together, in the Haunted Lands things *blur*. Notably the line between death and life. There life, of a sort, is found in death and death, of a sort, is found in life.

Eating anything grown within the Haunted Lands is very difficult. The grain may scream when harvested and make bread that crumbles into something like bone meal when baked. Its beer could taste and smell of nightmares. Cattle tend to be stillborn, which makes it all the more disturbing as the herds continue to grow.

Nevertheless there is much wealth to be found in the Haunted Lands for the brave of heart and strong of stomach. Examples: A tree with branches that when aged and dried taste of nectar and honey, after being killed and cooked, of course. A stream lined with trainable, watchful stones. A pit full of knowledgeable darkness.

Use Haunted Lands to defend Patria Reborn or spoil the territories of your enemies. The Haunted Lands are not well suited to the living.

The Undead have a natural affinity to the Haunted Lands. Their senses are sharpened, their arms strong. The Haunted Lands are also a source of many wonders... often grotesque or terrible. The useful ones can be kept or traded so others may appreciate the Gift. The useless ones - and there are many - can be a burden to any nearby living land. The Haunted Lands will foster Unhealth in nearby cities.

Perhaps most disturbing, at least to those who haven't accepted the Emperor's Gift, is that those bearing wounds in the Haunted Lands do not always heal true. The substance of the Haunted Lands, or the lack thereof, enters their flesh. They become undead. Some carry on afterward, cleaving to their old gods and loyalties. Some go strange, eventually raising their hand - or whatever's left - against all others.

Ghostwalkers can undergo a different transformation with the Haunted Lands. They share out part of their own substance and humanity to the surrounding terrain, drinking from even more of the territory's inhuman nature. They become Haunts. Insubstantial, but hardly less terrible for that. Whip-fast, hard to see until it's right on top of you, a Haunt's airy frame can't take your head off, but this is hardly a comfort when it roars through your army and sinks it's claws into your skull.

[size=+1]Mending Nature[/size]

Three Scion units create Haunted Lands.

Ghostwalkers - With "Necromancy" a Ghostwalker may spend six turns creating a Haunted Lands. tile.

Reaching Creepers - Once "Feral Bond" is reached sufficiently experienced Ghostwalkers may feed Reaching Creepers their own blood. Sated, swollen with a Ghostwalker's strange ichor, the Creeper can put down roots and blossom into a Haunted Land tile.

Redactors - As soon as they're available Redactors can create Haunted Lands. They transform not only their own tile, but those around them as well. The life within a forest or jungle may hold out for a time, but will succumb eventually.

The Dark Council

Spoiler :

[size=+1]The High Councilors[/size]

Patria was blessed with many men and women of enormous accomplishment. Patria Rebon shares in that blessing and the Age of Magic's greatest Princes and Poets, Warriors and Merchants, daily walk its streets. The Emperor has appointed four such persons special roles in the Age of Rebirth. Not just undead but unconquerable, if destroyed they always pay heed to the Emperor's call and re-emerge from the great Tomb. Each has his or her special role, and together they lead the Scions Dark Council.

Alcinus - The Mad Thaumaturge: Emerges from the Tomb with Knowledge of the Ether. He founds the essential Thaumaturge's Keep in any city outside the capital (the Apparat refuses to allow it near the Palace) and plays an important part in the Empire's Rituals. Subject to periodic bouts of violent madness, the great mage occasionally turns against his own people. At that point there is nothing that may be done but running him down. A new death returns him to the Emperor. Though even that's not certain. Should he go rogue and join a rival civilization the Scions specially trained wizard-hunters - the Emperor's Daggers - will seek him out.

Themoch, the Silent Watcher - Unseen but far from sightless, as patient as the grave, at "Tracking" Themoch rides forth, the perfect sentry and spy.

Pelemoc Goldtongue - He appears most often as a well-off merchant, but will appear in other guises if they serve his need. Pelemoc is no mage, but he bends minds and scatters armies with his mastery of money, with his silver-tongue.

Melante, the Artful Governor - Head of the Dark Council, Melante is knows as much of the ways of men as Pelemoc, and is just as deft with words. But where he persuades, she rules. Any city with Melante as it's governor will be markedly more productive.

[size=+1]The Dark Council[/size]

Once all four leading Councilors are together in a city outside the capital Melante may found the Dark Council, casting the Scions of Patria World Spell. The Dark Council world-wonder is created. The Dark Council grants three Reborn, and it's ongoing activities foster both trade in Scions cities and discontent among their enemies.

 

[odalrick]

There is a fifth way to gain reborn: Pelemoc.

On another note, I love your descriptions of Haunted Lands and the Gift.

 

[Master_Hugian]

Another thought, Alcinus can never build the Thaumaturge's Keep in a one city challenge meaning the scions will be stuck with one base mana throughout the game.

 

[Tarquelne]

First page updated.

Thinking about what to do with the civics, one-city-chal.

 

[xienwolf]

You could just add OCC as an OR statement along with the "Is city not Capital" block. Then in a OCC you will be allowed to use the Capital, but otherwise cannot.