SE/FE Walkthrough

[30+]

I see lots of SE/FE questions lately so here is a walkthrough, my first one at that. Any question, pointers, and or flames are more than welcome. This was originally posted by me in another thread here, in the link below (but the walkthrough below is a new variation):


My personal goal in SE/FE is to tech to Liberalism as fast as humanly possible (this means you must lightbulb techs) while conquering enough cities to support your empire on the way and especially once you hit liberalism. There is no point in getting to Liberalism in 400-600 AD if you don't have a strong enough empire to leverage your tech lead. By leverage I am talking about crushing AI's with your superior units and production from whip/farm.

Also some general things before I get to the walkthrough: To sum up, make few cities yourself. Get land by conquering it, and early. Get money by razing cities and tech trading (a must) or you will go broke. Hit Liberalism super fast so you can use your tech advantage to War with superior units and sell top notch techs such as Lit/Drama/Phil/CoL/CS/Paper/Education for cash when need (have to support research!) I typically hit Liberalism in 400-500 AD and my research path with Ghandi usually goes:

Agriculture/BW/AH/Wheel/Writing/Alphabet/Drama/Literature/COL/CS. I do not research pottery on the way to writing because it takes too much time (7-9 turns x 40 years is approximately 300 years extra!!) and delays Liberalism. I will simply trade for it. I research drama before literature because the AI won't trade me polytheism yet, which I need for literature. Once again, that waste time. While researching Drama I can normally pick up IW/Mathmatics which are important ones. And once again, right before drama is finished I can usually get polytheism (Literature Prerequisite) and meditation (necessary to Bulb Philosophy). After drama I then research Literature directly (begin the GL) and then start COL (via tech trade from priesthood). The AI won't be ready to trade me Monarchy and Currency until very shortly before or after I finish COL.

Anyways, onto the game.


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Starting position. Popped a scout! I want to show that you don't HAVE to have lots of money to get the SE/FE started so, in good faith, I won't mine either one of those gold mines in vision. Begin Worker/Warrior/Settler/Worker/Warrior/Settler/Worker

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Tech path.

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Begin pre-chopping for Library.

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2 scientist started in 1840 BC. My preference lately has been to share one of my high food resources from my Capital with my first scientist city. This allows faster research and quick GS'tist. If horse/copper is too far away and I don't believe will settle the land before an AI, then I will make the city you see here my 3rd. I do prefer lately to make it first though. There was bronze in capital and horse near by.

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Tech path. As I said earlier, I prefer to research drama before literature, therefore giving the AI's enough time to tech trade me Poly/Meditation/Priesthood/Mathmatics/IW. In this game I was able to trade for all the little techs and the above ones with the exception of sailing.

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Chopping in library in 3rd city. I did hook up the gold for the happiness, but its out of BFC so no worries, not bringing in gold from it! I popped a 2nd copper on an already mined hill.

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1st GS in at 1480 BC. I settle him in Dehli.

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Dehli city screen. I swap my tiles around so I have exactly 12H for Axeman in 3 turns each. I will make axeman non stop and chop some later for my first war. No need to have 2 production cities if I can make Axe in 3 turns or Charriots in 2 turns. Notice also, the whole point of changing tiles to get 12H was so I could get extra 2 commerce from river tiles, which once I get Alphabet and pottery, will become cottages. If I didnt have copper I would make Charriots instead. If a good production city such as this one, I would have 13H a turn and could actually go to war SOONER due to charriots costing 2 turns. Yes, you need more of them, but, 11 Axe x 3 turn is 33 turns. 15 Charriots x 2 turns is 30 turns. But you don't always need that many do you ^^. If you don't have a strong production city then do this- A 9H city will make 8 Axe in 32 turns. This means you need to make 3 more Axes from one other city to equal the production you need from a Single Super city, thus giving you 11 Axe in 33 turns. This hurts research but you have to do what you have to do. If you don't have a neighbor next door still go to war. You will need money from somewhere to fund research early. So with far neighbors you would make fewer Axes or charriots because it cost much more for maintenance the further you go. You would simply Raze any cities and take the Cash. It doesn't have to be a capital if its too strong. Raze 2-3 smaller cities which will still provide cash and pillage anything and everything in sight for more money which can make up for the extra money lost in not getting a capital. This means you would need to make 2 more cities yourself. You would need to time the making of the cities to coincide with the razing of cities so you could fund them as you began to set them up for scientist/cottage/etc. This gives you 2 choices. Make 2 settlers from Capital and delay GL for 10-12 turns, or, chop them out from your other 2 cities (my choice).

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Alphabet is in. Slider is at 40% simply to save money 1 turn before the tech was finished. I believe it was at 60 or 70% before 1 turn left.

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2nd city screen. Once again, tile swap the extra citizen on the river commerce tile which has had a cottage added. The same has already been done in capital and city #3. Slider is at 60%, and remember, we are getting more and more axeman adding up, so things are doing ok.

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2nd GS is in. He will pop Philosophy. I am still relatively new , but anyone newer than me, it is very necessary to trade techs in an effecient manner to get all the other techs you missed and or need to lightbulb other techs. You have to have Polytheism in order to research Literature. You have to have Meditation and Drama in order to lightbulb Philosophy. You need Philosophy for Pacifism, and it is also a prerequisite for Liberalsim.

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Hannibals capital. I decide I want 11 Axeman when I attack. This should leave me enough left over to take out 2 more cities fast.

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Philosophy is finished. Slider is at 50% and we will go to war soon.

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Literature is finished. Once again, slider is set lower only to save money 1 turn before the tech completed. I am 2nd to last in power scale at 454 Sharpie. I stopped making Axeman about 5 turns before Literature was finished. I started a Library and begun to pre chop all forest for the GL and National Epic.

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Tech path. Things are going smooth. I have been able to trade for all the needed prerequisites so I can directly research the next level tech. I have not been able to get currency though. That's always the tough one.

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I take Hannibals capital. I attacked with 11 Axe and have 6 left. He had 4 Archers with 50% defense and 2 city defense promo's 1.

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I take my 2nd AI city. I have 2 Axeman left. Money is OK, but without currency, I am unable to sell techs for cash. I need to raze a city for a few more $$. I only like to have 5 total cities before CS otherwise city maintenance kills research.

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And there is the target. I have decided to put in theatres in the new captured cities over libraries because they have +3 culture over +2, and, because I plan to do more whipping sooner over later for new structures. Need all tiles working for that so dont need libraries for scientist right now. Also, I will eventually use the culture slider when I begin whipping units back to back to back later on to negate whipping penalty. I am chopping Library in capital still, and I am making archers in my other cities. I find it important to keep your border cities with at least 3 - 4 defenders for a Show of Force so the AI doesn't invade you .

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GL is finished and COL is almost done. Still no currency. Slider is at 50%. Not sure why . Maybe I was saving money till I got currency or I just forgot.

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I get peace, money, and Monarchy (from Hannibal!).

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COL is finished and CS begun. Slider is at 90% and I am at a hefty negative $$. I finally got currency for literature and drama. Things looking ok again.

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Change civics to include getting Taoism and Pacifism. Some dont like to do it because they feel you will get attacked immediately. That's why the archers were being built earlier. Maintain enough raw power in score to avoid being attacked while beelining for faster possible time to Liberalism!! Besides, my SE/FE revolves alot around specific timing of GS and if I don't adpot pacifism I won't be able to have 3 GS waiting for me once CS is finished (which I need for Paper/Education).

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3rd GS is born which wil be saved for lightbulbing as mentioned above. Also you can see the civics being implemented. I have enough food in Capital to run 5 scientist with an 8 population. That will give me almost 100 GPP a turn. We need 400 for 4th GS and 500 for 5th. We have 13 turns till CS is complete and around 4-5 turn before Dehli hits size 8. Timing should be good.

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Foreign advisor. ACK! Lol. Everyone hates us. I will have to give techs away such as alphabet/literature/drama to improve things.

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3 turns till CS is finished. Slider @ 100% and Neg 40 +. Need to sell techs asap. You can see that next GS is due in 2 turns at 399/500. I am getting 96 GPP/turn. I already got my 4th GS (forgot picture). That means we will have 3 GS to pop Paper/Education as soon as CS is finished. We just make sure we get more $$$ from tech trading so we can keep research as high as possible for Liberalism.

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Picture of empire. Nothing grand, but I have focused on GPP and lightbulbing to get to Liberalsim fast.

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Foreign advisor. I have improved relations by gifting little techs.

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CS if complete at 1 AD. I sold COL + drama to get some money which is good, BUT, it takes a while to research Liberalism so I will need some more very soon. I am in the middle of the pack Power wise at 771.

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Chinese just declared WAR on me. I am offering Ottoman empire to start a war with Chinese. If this doesn't work it could screw me badly.

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Mehemmed answer.

Liberalism is complete. I had to trade techs like drama and COL for horrible horrible cash. I am talking like 80 for drama and 120 for COL. I wasn't able to keep research up to 100% full time. I believe slider was a 20% for last 4-5 turns. Time to Liberalsim is very respectable considering research wasn't 100% and, at the very beginning of game, I promised not to mine the gold hills, which I didn't. If I had done so, I believe 100-175 AD Liberalism would be hit.

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Civics change. I begin whipping all courthouses/granaries(new cities)/aqueducts, barracks. After infrastructure is up I will begin whipping musketmen.

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Foreign Advisor. The war with China is still own but the Ottomans must be taking it to him because I am only being attacked by 1's and 2's. One sword, one horse archer, occasionally a swordsman and horse archer together. Anyways, the war is getting my units good experience points and hasn't effected me more than having to rebuild a stable and farm once.

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Largest civilizations in the World pop up. Also, if you look above the pop up and the the top right of it, you will see musketmen. I also have a sizeable stack of Musketman right underneath the pop up. My Capital is running beaurracracy/military academy/heroic epic and is making musketmen every turn. I just recently had my culture slider at 20% while whipping an insane amount. I was whipping like mad from all cities. With theatres in the cities I had an additional +4 happiness. This allowed me in about 7turns to produce 12 musketmen or so. If I had bigger population cities I could have drafted them faster. The strengths of SE/FE comes in the source of early tech lead and production gained from the whip. Early tech lead = superior units to fight with. Greater production comes from having mass farms and ability to whip an incredible amount of units from ALL cities. Simply let your cities grow into an unhappy state some time before you plan to Whip units then Use the culture slider to adjust happiness while your unhappiness due to the whip slowly deminishes. I.E. , Six size 10 cities who have 5 unhappy citizens each for a total of Fifteen population can Whip 18 Musketmen in FIVE turns (wait 1 turn to accrue hammers on each musketman per city, 2nd turn Whip for 3 population points, 3rd turn wait 1 turn to acrrue again, Fourth turn whip for 2 population(whip overflow), Fifth Turn whip straight away for 4 population points). A typical farmed city would grow back one population point in Five turns which means you would lose a total of 8 population points. Subtract that from 15 and you now have 6 size 7 cities (which would grow back very very fast) with 30 (normal speed) turns of unhappiness with 18 musketman (at around 800 AD). That's alot of production in Five turns at this stage of the game imo. The con is you would have unhappy citizens for 30 turns. That means you need to leverage the power of your quick production from the whip/farm quickly. Take over multiple cities then whip in infrastructure and repeat the above process as happiness allows!

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Time to bring the war to Mao. I switched tiles in capital to generate more $$ to help support war. Still getting Muskets in 2 turns.

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I have captured my 2nd Chinese city. See that screen shot. Musketman has destroyed a spearman! A spearmen. That's funny. One city had 2 Long bow and one spearman. The other city had 3 Long bow and one spearman. I think I will take alot of his cities . I am second in power now.

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AI tech status as of 800 AD

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AI tech status as of 1050 AD

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I am now 1st in power. I made peace with Mao. I took 5 of his cities (although the screen shot above isn't the one showing me with 10 cities, I believe I only have 2 of his cities at this time and-you can see I was still rallying musketman to attack with). All being 10 population or higher. I now have 10 cities (cant find ss, which isn't a disaster. I captured 3 more of his cities by around 1225 AD with an even higher score than shown). You see the over-all scheme of how the whip/draft attacks- and that is the important thing. I switched to Represention as soon as it became available. I won't continue the game as I only did this for Future ^^. So much love, lol. If i did, I would switch to caste system and run scientist from all the cities I have been farming like mad with chain irrigation. Only a few of the Captured AI cities with cottages will not be running scientist. All the cities I have captured but one are still in Anarchy for 4-8 turn still. I would run Caste for about 7-8 turns then switch back to Slavery to whip in needed courthouses etc. Once infrastructure was back up I would culture slider whip whip whip so that I had like 5-7 happiness penalty per city but wasnt effected by it cause culture slider. That means I could potentially whip 24-32 units in 8-11 turns(which could be much much faster if I had more population, + I am still feeling effects of unhappiness due to 1st whip session). I would then keep culture slider up while rallying my new men to Ottoman borders and once happiness was back to normal (alot faster due to Ghandi's UB too) I would Switch back to Caste and go all research while pounding Ottomans into the dust!

All further GS would be mostly settled in whichever city had the highest cottage potential. This would be an AI city (already cottaged) somewhere near the middle of my empire ideally. I would run Beaurracracy when I could and make Oxford there as well (and new capital). I would add necessary cottages to fill up BFC. I would continue the same cycle of Whip infrastructure/Caste research/War etc etc.

Anyways, I am still new. There are plenty of times I don't balance my power in relations to AI before Liberalism and get attacked and owned. But I am getting better with SE/FE. Not anywhere there yet. I still have problems getting into the industrial age just because I normally never finish a game, lol. I try new starts and ideas and usually that takes me up to the point I finished at in this game .

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Criticism #1: why not use the image tag?

 

[30+]

Because I don't know what an image tag is.

 

[mice]

I think he means when you're posting you get to click the small icon of a picture, and then paste in the image whatsit and that puts the image itself into the thread.

However for this thread that would make a lot of images to show each time.

Might be better to put them in spoiler tabs (also available at the top of the message page).

Good thread BTW. Reading and following with interest.

 

[futurehermit]

If you upload your images to photobucket.com it creates the image tags for you...

 

[Binky123]

96 GPp per tern is pretty nice


A few Criticisms:

- No barbs allows you to those librarys up earlier without having to fogbust etc
- You trade for a lot of cheap techs, which contributes to faster WFYABTA limits. But I guess it didn't matter too much
- Settling a scientist seems like a waste to me... I would think it's better to wait a lightbulb a tech even if you have to put it to sleep for a while

But overall good job

 

[30+]

Thanks for replies so far everyone.

@Binky123, the very first link provided has a discussion from future and me concerning barbs and no delay in libraries. Trading for cheap techs helps avoid having to waste turns and many more years reachig liberalism. As far as settling scientist.. I'm not sure if you mean new scientist after reaching Liberalism or before that. My overal goal was to hit Liberalsim fast to enjoy use of superior tech. Settling the 1st GS helped my research early. I still timed the arrival of subsequent GS so I would have enough to pop all needed techs with no delay to reach Liberalsim. I am not very familiar with the inner workings of becoming to advanced AI worries. How could, or how did WFYABTA effect my game here? I play more games w/out SE/FE and a HE actually, and on most game setting I do not have tech trading enabled. So I could use some schooling .

I tried to directly link a SS to this post, but it still didn't work, and the picture quality is a lot worse than the rest of my above links. I am trying to delete the attachment now but don't know how . Lol. It's a good thing posting ss doesn't effect my gameplay.

o_O

 

[MT5678]

Good Work.
But How...?
I can only get liberalism at 1400-1500, and I play on Noble.
Perhaps because I always use CE, and I tend to overexpand.
I build worker-warrior-settler-stonehenge-worker-axeman/warrior-settler
or something among those lines.
But soon, I'm at 60-70%, and I have a deficit

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

What I meant is that you seem to be using URL tags


[url]http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95301/Settings.JPG[/url]


where I would expect you to use either an IMG tag


[img]http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95301/Settings.JPG[/img]


so that the picture would show up in band, instead of requiring a click:

YOWZA! You might also want to look into taking smaller screen caps

There's also a special ATTACH tag for making attachments to a single post show up inline, but I haven't experimented with it much. The syntax is supposed to be


[attach]attachmentid[/attach]


Never be afraid to consult the vB Code help files to find out if there's a tag that does what you need. Lots of goodies are hiding in there that aren't used often enough that you are likely to learn of them by just reading other posts.

 

[30+]

Heh. Sorry voice . I didn't know how to put the ss as you posted above, so in order to get visible picture quality I edited every url link I submitted by sketching and skewing the image to 300% and 300%. This made it clear enough to see little #'s for tech tree/money defecit/year/etc.... So I will try to insert an IMG in my other ss attempt and see if that works ^^.

Just curious, if it does work, do you think it would be overkill to post so many SS directly into my post?? Would it take up too much space (maybe 2 or 3 whole forum pages??) or would it be the better choice for ease of viewing?

!

Thank you! So, now that I have figured it out, should I go back and IMG every SS?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Thank you! So, now that I have figured it out, should I go back and IMG every SS?

I don't know, I haven't looked at your other pictures.

My own rule is that if the picture ISNT worth a thousand words, then you shouldn 't post it. Tech screens, wonder screens, Scientology founded in a distant land, pictures of combat animation... those are right out. Maps are good, as are city screens, and the domestic advisor, but otherwise I don't bother much.

On the other hand, I've made this argument to other posters, without changing their behavior one jot. So I could well be wrong here.

 

[mice]

Just curious, if it does work, do you think it would be overkill to post so many SS directly into my post?? Would it take up too much space

Use spoiler tags to hide the screenie. then the page doesnt take so long to load for the reader(as far as I know).

 

[MKElderGod]

Im new to this forum but not to the game and its tactics.
Questions > i dont know some terms ued here so...

1. Whats lightbulb?
2. Whats Whip?

Problems
This strat is pointless when you have to use the loophole of tech tradin. It shows you cant use this in MP. Im not saying you wasted time.
Also you could mine a gold mine if you wanted to. Just because you do a SE/FE doesnt mean you cant mine gold. Its like saying in a CE dont build a farm or dont pasture pigs?
I also notice that FE alone is completly ********, it needs to have AI loopholes or some sort of hybrid to it.
If this was done with CE/ INCA or any finacial leader probably be in a better spot without tech tradin.

 

[30+]

@Kelder

The thread was geared towards single player. FYI I play more MP than single, although most people play more SP. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=190502&highlight=poll

Further, when you learn what lightbulb and the whip are you will be in a better position to offer critiques.

 

[agc28]

i like how 30+ refuses to tell him what lightbulb and whip are. lol

to lightbulb - to instantly discover a technology with a great person, usually a great scientist.
to whip - to use the slavery function, converting population (which is, indirectly, food) into production.

 

[DaveMcW]

If you wanted gunpowder so badly, you should have researched it directly instead of wasting time on Liberalism.

 

[ShredZ]

I played a shadow game last night, reading this thread and playing at the same time - so far I REALLY like it. Seems very powerful, Im basically ALWAYS ahead of the AI by 2-3 techs. Ive played up to the Philo-pop so far, and everything is going fairly well, Ill explain:

-copper was nowhere near me
-horses were nowhere near me

Yes, my first war has yet to start, but I did make IW a bigger priority than you (still traded for it though), got Iron and am preparing now for a war.

There is one other thing that I thought of that could really put a damper in this strategy, I noticed that Monty wouldnt trade a lot of his techs with me, most of them reded-out WFYABTA - but the good news was the Lizzy was trading me everything Monty wouldnt, so I got a bit lucky. But if you were pitted up against Monty and Taka I can see that yer tech trading would become nonexistant.

Questions:

-I dont think you mentioned what you like to do with the GA you get from being first to Music ? (pop Theology?)
-Do you think an Academy would be better than settling yer first GS ?

 

[Skallagrimson]

If you wanted gunpowder so badly, you should have researched it directly instead of wasting time on Liberalism.

My tech strategy is to get what I need in the early years (Iron Working, Construction, etc.), and when I have the minimum techs it takes to at least field a good defensive army to repel invasions, I do the Liberalism race. When I get there, I go one of two ways:

1) If I have horses AND need a good MILITARY edge, I'll use the liberalism slingshot to get Nationalism. Then I'm a hop and a skip from Military Tradition and am ready to stomp my neighbors with Cavalry against their medieval units.

2) If all is calm on the military front, and there's no prospect for a lot of fighting to go on soon, I'll slingshot Astronomy instead, which not only allow Observatories to accelerate the science (even more), but also allow Galleons for sending out oversea colonies which can be a critical step in some map types (to get to oversea resources before the AIs do).

If I know ahead of time it's gonna be option 2 (that is, none of the neighbors are "Aggressives" like Tokugawa or Montezuma, diplomacy is good, and the army is already strong), I'll prep for it by getting to Optics, build caravels, and start a circumnavigation before launching into the Liberalism race.

One key I've found, too, is to NEVER trade Paper, Philosophy, or Education to the AIs before Liberalism has already been slingshotted. Even if they offer a good deal, that good deal can cost you having a tech edge at a very critical point in the game: the transition to Grenadiers/Cannons/Cavs in advance of your enemies, not to mention the ability to colonize AND TRADE overseas first!

 

[Skallagrimson]

I also notice that FE alone is completly ********, it needs to have AI loopholes or some sort of hybrid to it.
If this was done with CE/ INCA or any finacial leader probably be in a better spot without tech tradin.

I never SE when I'm Financial (and go more for coastal development, Colossus, Great Lighthouse, etc., along with the CE), but most of the time when I'm not Financial I at least *start* SE early in the game, pre-Free Speech, pre-Universal Sufferage. Converting from SE to CE is a simple matter of cottaging up some of the farms, no big deal. At the very *latest* I do my SE to CE convertion by the time I have no choice but to switch to Emancipation. Without whipping there's absolutely no point to farm up anymore, and towns with their bonuses start to take the lead from specialists in what they bring to the empire. GPP gets to be moot because in the modern age the only way you'll be able to get new GPs is in the National Epic farm-fish-fladland-city. None of the others will be able to catch up, even if you keep 'em SE stylin'.

The catch-22 with tech trading is that if you give out military techs, they can use it to stomp you with, and if you give out artsy techs, they can use it to beat you to Liberalism. Any techs you trade out at ALL will get spread like a bad case of HIV and before you know it your worst enemies have that tech and you no longer have an advantage. Supposedly you gain an advantage if you trade it to everbody in one turn and get "a little something" in return from each AI, but even then, there are always those AIs who don't want to trade at all, from you, offer insultingly-low trades in return, OR might just need that tech to build armies and march against you, like if you give out Civil Service and that's their key to Macemen, and then, all your axemen are belong to them.

Tech trades are the most frustrating aspect of the game for me, and I hate it with a passion.

 

[30+]

@DAVE

My personal goal in SE/FE is to tech to Liberalism as fast as humanly possible

That is a quote from me in my 2nd paragraph of initial post.
I would have musketman faster, BUT, nationalism cost almost 3000 beakers, and that is the tech I always choose as my free tech from Liberalism. As I am whipping my muskteman my tech path lately has been going for Constitution so I can benefit from Representation.

@ Shredz

I don't research music, I research drama, therefore, I don't get a free GA.
The 1st GS may be more beneficial as an academy. I played the above game in about 1 hour and 5 minutes from start to finish so I'm sure much better micromanagement could have been implemented too.

Some other random thoughts about SE/FE and HE or CE.

Further, like I said towards end of the walkthrough, I normally don't play most of my games past 1000 AD timeframe, SO, my transition with SE/FE from early lightbulbing to a more CASTE oriented scientists base raw research game sucks too . It's problematic for me to utilize efficient caste/whip in conjunction with production and research. Even when biology comes in I find it impossible to match a HE or CE.

Of course, the games that I have won using SE/FE were similar to the games as my walkthrough. I normally take an insane amount of land due to conquering 2 AI's very fast and just make use of their nicely cottages cities to help fund my lacking research. So to me, the big advantage in SE/FE lies in the production advantage of the Whip. Much greater production with a much lower research yield. The opposite is true imo with the CE/HE. Greater research but lower production.

It's a given that either CE or SE/FE will generally have 2 very good production cities with plenty of mines, WP/HE/IW/ETC. But in my experience, at least till you get to communism and nationhood, Farms just generate so so so so SO much more production it's scarry. I mean, take a look at my simple 6 size 10 cities scenario. Just think if you have 10-12 cities. You could literally whip 48 units in 7 turns (size 10 city with 5 unhappy citizens, 2turn/whip/2turn/whip/2turn/whip/1turn whip straight way for a total of 4 units from each city, which would leave you with a tiny tiny city of 5!(with one regrowth by 7th turn of the whip) but would grow back all cities to size 10+ easily in the next 10-16 turns). That is an insane amount of manpower. So I have 40 turns of unhappy citizens (normal speed). Who cares??! I can take over an entire civilization with those #'s, keep all there good cottages cities for research, and let those initial cities to work themselves out of unhappiness. Add to the fact as you will be getting lots and lots of $$$ from capturing and razing cities that you can freely run your culture slider and the happiness due to the whip deminishes even faster, thus allowing you less time needed to re whip.

Of course, if my war's don't go well, or I am invaded prior to having the ability to whip with superior units then my SE/FE is doomed because I won't have enough research to catch up or enough land and captured cities (cottages cities!!) to catch up either.

I am still very new but can very clearly see the advantages of the different styles of play. I currently use HE much much more than SE/FE, but as I have said plenty of times before, I enjoy them both. And, IMHO, if one could learn to perfectly utilize the SE/FE I believe it would be the strongest potential game style (more production leading to more units, leading to more captured and razed cities, which of course leads to more research potential from taking over good cities!). Besides, you could always use your initial 10-12 cities as whipping boys over and over and simply cottage up everything you take over. You would invariable need to stop war to avoid the insane war weariness which occurs, and during this time allow happiness from whip to subside. At same time begin regrowing all cities to be whipped to an unhappy state so you get more production potential from the whip. Repeat as needed.