Secret Hitler - I - The First [Concluded]

[Jarrema]

both you and Visor are suspected.

I vote nein!

Let us chose other cabinet

 

[Lohrenswald]

Legato has appointed Visorslash as new president, you can't vote against that.
Visorslash has To nominate a chancellor

 

[Apoc_]

Yes I do thou Nazi. Though not yet. I'd like some consensus from the thread first. I'm willing to considering suggestions.



I drew:

2 fascist policies and a liberal.

I gave Zack one of each color.

And yet here we sit with the executive expanded. So I know the following:

Zack and Apoc are scum. The former is a bit disappointing, the latter isn't shocking in the slightest. Apoc perfectly fits the profile of a dominant mafia...err Fascist.

Neither of them is likely to be Hitler, which is where the real game begins. Zack's government has to be rejected simply because he could manipulate the deck further. Or he'll play the players and set me out to be a Cassandra and Troy falls. Mixed metaphors for the win.

So I ask the following: My presidential pick need not be picked, but you should not allow Zack and Apoc into government again. You may exclude me too, I don't care. Then even if you don't believe this, you need to consider who Hitler looks like if they're Fascists.

I'm tempted to elect Visor to be president, but let's get some polling here first for what people want. It's a political game after all. Also, I'm a tad suspicious that they're trying to get the election tracker to either flip a fascist card, or hoping to rush for the finish, as Zack gains traction next time followed by Stork.

Jarema now looks very interesting considering Apoc. I'm tempted to think Jarema would have been shunted off with a false read of guilt, but not entirely sure. He's an easy scape goat certainly.

lol. So you're a facist but not Hitler then. Cool.

Who's Hitler? It's ok, you can tell us

 

[Apoc_]

The scan of zack did come out of the blue actually. I am inclined to believe legato.

how did it "come out of the blue" ?

I think my Zack peek was the single most discussed topic in the thread.



Zack doesn't get peeked liberal as a Facist and then just throw away all that good will at the first opportunity

Legato is a facist.

 

[Apoc_]

nein!

 

[Apoc_]

Legato has appointed Visorslash as new president, you can't vote against that.
Visorslash has To nominate a chancellor

Right, jumped the gun a bit there then

 

[Visorslash]

Spoiler :

nah for real, I'm not fascist.

Not sure who to choose. Leaning stork at the moment.

 

[Visorslash]

how did it "come out of the blue" ?

I think my Zack peek was the single most discussed topic in the thread.



Zack doesn't get peeked liberal as a Facist and then just throw away all that good will at the first opportunity

Legato is a facist.

Except its a gamewinning move.

One of Apoc/Zack/Legato should be shot fwiw if we make it to implementing another fascist policy.

 

[Visorslash]

how did it "come out of the blue" ?

I think my Zack peek was the single most discussed topic in the thread.



Zack doesn't get peeked liberal as a Facist and then just throw away all that good will at the first opportunity

Legato is a facist.

That;s a boldfaced lie there mate.

Me and Jarrema were the choices for almost the entire time, then suddenly you bring Zack out of the blue.

 

[Legato Endless]

Legato has appointed Visorslash as new president, you can't vote against that.
Visorslash has To nominate a chancellor

You know what's really interesting about all of this?

nein!

Apoc didn't wait to see who Visor would nominate. Something which would be fairly valuable to know as it might say something about Visor and whether he's another fascist or I'm simply pushing another liberal instead.

But Apoc didn't care. He just moved blithely past it all. I mean, does he look like he's solving anything, or does he look like he's just trying to dismiss me? Because even if he was sure I'm a fascist, shouldn't that lead too questions about my partners?

Right, jumped the gun a bit there then

If I were in Apoc's position, I would be immediately trying to figure out who the other two fascists in the narrowed pool are. Who's connected to Legato? Who looks bad by association? Because if I'm scum, this is most likely a ploy to get Hitler elected, which is a lot easier if two liberals were excluded. So who's Hitler then in the pool that remains?

But there's nothing on that front. It's all just, lol, you so scummy. There's no work behind it. I mean, does he look like he's solving the game? And does my relative lack of participation from before look like a very good long term strategy for a Fascist?

Alternatively, Apoc is just bad at examining things right now.

lol. So you're a facist but not Hitler then. Cool.

Who's Hitler? It's ok, you can tell us

Which to be fair, this does look like a random sampling from the dregs of a twitter feed in terms of analysis.

Zack doesn't get peeked liberal as a Facist and then just throw away all that good will at the first opportunity

Legato is a facist.

Wrong again. This makes a lot of sense. He's two policies away from loss, and he can't be assured if he passes a liberal policy here he'll be able to stop another from passing.

Second, Zack getting another policy in play changes things substantially. Now, all he needs is the right nomination and the game ends. It's a perfectly rational choice. The only real loss here was you peeking him which leaves two of you guilty by association, but he couldn't really help being hampered by your decision, so I can't blame him on that count.

both you and Visor are suspected.

I vote nein!

Let us chose other cabinet

Jarema you might want to review the rules.

 

[Zack]

Only fascist who would conceivably pass a liberal policy when given the choice is Hitler, and even then that's a stretch. If given a choice (1/1 split), liberals will pass liberal policy 100% of the time and fascists will pass fascist policy 99% of the time. If I was a fascist chancellor and had a choice I pass a fascist policy and lie. If I'm a fascist president, I give the chancellor no choice but to pass fascist policy (if possible) and lie.

Either Legato is lying or I am, one of us has to be fascist. However, only one of us has been peeked, and it isn't Legato.

 

[Legato Endless]

Only fascist who would conceivably pass a liberal policy when given the choice is Hitler, and even then that's a stretch.

Really? Only then? There aren't, I don't know, reams of scenarios where someone might make a different choice? I'm sure we'd never find any of those if we looked up other play-throughs of the game.

If given a choice (1/1 split), liberals will pass liberal policy 100% of the time and fascists will pass fascist policy 99% of the time. If I was a fascist chancellor and had a choice I pass a fascist policy and lie. If I'm a fascist president, I give the chancellor no choice but to pass fascist policy (if possible) and lie.

Then this game is horribly designed and Sprig and everyone else should never have believed the hype, because it's mechanics would be a monotony of rout decision making.

 

[Zack]

What scenarios then? Enlighten me.

 

[Zack]

Consider I'm talking from a position of game theory here, where people are making the most optimal choice. There are definitely scenarios where people might think it's a good idea to pass opposite policy, but I don't think that's necessarily the correct choice.

 

[Apoc_]

Except its a gamewinning move.

How's that exactly?

 

[Apoc_]

Peekament Quotes

There's a good chance I'll be the one peeking.

I was thinking Jaremma or Visor atm.

I think Lohrens is telling the truth.

If anyone is lying IMO it would be Zack first round, but I don't think so.

IMO you should peek jarrema

if he is a fascist that should almost lock clear me

if he is a liberal thats good because we cleared someone we thought was bad

Well, I wanna know who you're gonna peek. If you're gonna peek me, I'm gonna say nein because its a waste of a peek.

Think whatever you want from that. I'm sure someone will say that it makes me a Fascist.

But its a waste, especially when I am an easy read.

I will nominate Visor

If we get a peek, I'll use it on Jar.

Prioritization of the peek I'd imagine, though that looks super shady here because we've been fairly low in reads with this.

I'm also very unhappy with the general idea of scrying Jarema. He's so scum read at this point he's dropped out of general election contention. I'd much prefer a middling to well read player being scanned and confirmed, because Hitler is very likely pulling an innocents gambit before sliding in once we've hit 3 Nazi regulations.

Apoc

you MUST peek me.

Must he? We're fine Visor so long as don't elect you chancellor, and possibly president. Although the results of the next round are quite something I'm curious about.

I really don't think Apoc should peek you, as there's a problematic scenario here where I won't believe him as you two aren't entirely implausible as scum buddies.

Spoken like a true Fascist.


Please don't peek at Jarrema, total waste imo, anyone else would be preferred.

Lots of people coming out of the woodwork now that a peek is in play.

It is NOTED

Visor...why did you change your story on peeking vs not peeking you?


King...why shouldnt I peek jar? You that confident he's a facist? Or is he a lineral you're trying to prevent being cleared?

Anyway. Im not peeking you. I want to peek someone who's barely posting to clear stuff up a bit.

I like this post. Gives me an idea.

Should we be peeking to find Hitler? Like the obviously scummy people like jar...we can just refuse him power and/or they are more likely to out themselves through policy choices

well you only get fascist/liberal so you won't know specifically if they are hitler, but yes, you should probably be trying to peek hitler.

Damn was tginking we get to peek their role card. Principle still applies.

Think zack is my peek choice atm because his alignment gives is info wrt the deck during our first 5 rounds

that is very well possible for sure.

looking at the list IF you are a liberal AND you investigate zack and he is a liberal, we win ~almost always?

we can vote down kingmorgan and jarrema and vote in legato, even if he is a fascist and forces a fascist draw, he gets to pick the next president (and thus chancellor, and will presumably pick a fascist if he is a fascist) BUT we will be back to Zack->Me meaning it will be a Liberal/Liberal and then Liberal/Liberal government.

EVEN IF we get a total dead draw, we can shoot legato/our other fascist/hitler suspect.

Another option isnjust to peek king and know that our next president is legit

Think I'll go with zack.

Speak now or forever stfu

If WE know Kings alignment thats pretty good too, ya.

hard to know if you are telling the truth tho :/

with king we can get to Liberal->Liberal govt too i think.

well yeah

thats why i wanted him to peek me after the fascist draws

actually nah, we can't : /

I am investigating ZACK


Zack, please PM me your "party membership card" (not your "secret role card"). Also, CC Sprig.

tyty

Ok, Zack is a:

Spoiler :

Liberal

I think I need to let that marinate for a bit before deciding what it means for everyone else.

Three hours I waited for input on peeking Zack, and the only one even interested in discussing anything at the time was Stork.

Visor, you even posted during that time and offered nothing to the discussion.

 

[Apoc_]

That;s a boldfaced lie there mate.

Me and Jarrema were the choices for almost the entire time, then suddenly you bring Zack out of the blue.

please review the tapes to find a number of people who did not want to peek Jar (including Legato), and my own opinions on not peeking you.

 

[Zack]

just thinking out loud here

me not hitler, not fascist - duh

apoc not hitler, not fascist - legato is a fascist, and would never implicate hitler or teammate like that

visor not hitler, might be fascist - hitler never takes such blatant risks of looking scummy

legato is fascist, prolly not hitler - too out there with his lie, but he is fascist

known fascist:

legato endless

possible hitlers:

stork, lohrenswald, kingmorgan, jarrema

 

[Stork]

i hope jarrema is just hitler and it is that simple

doesn't feel so easy though.

 

[Apoc_]

You know what's really interesting about all of this?
Apoc didn't wait to see who Visor would nominate. Something which would be fairly valuable to know as it might say something about Visor and whether he's another fascist or I'm simply pushing another liberal instead.

I was neining you, not Visor.
Which was pretty evident from my post to Loehren, but nice try

But Apoc didn't care. He just moved blithely past it all. I mean, does he look like he's solving anything, or does he look like he's just trying to dismiss me? Because even if he was sure I'm a fascist, shouldn't that lead too questions about my partners?
.

Ok... Who are your parters?

If you want to talk about not solving anything I can pull up your posts from the start of the thread until now, hopefully that won't be necessary though.

If I were in Apoc's position, I would be immediately trying to figure out who the other two fascists in the narrowed pool are. Who's connected to Legato? Who looks bad by association? Because if I'm scum, this is most likely a ploy to get Hitler elected, which is a lot easier if two liberals were excluded. So who's Hitler then in the pool that remains?

But there's nothing on that front. It's all just, lol, you so scummy. There's no work behind it. I mean, does he look like he's solving the game? And does my relative lack of participation from before look like a very good long term strategy for a Fascist?

Who's the third facist in this alternate reality of yours?

I have one mechanically confirmed Facist, you have two. Should be even easier for you to solve this, right?

I still need to re-read the thread, but obviously Jar is top of your buddy list atm. Then one of Stork/Visor/Loehren, leaning towards Visor atm...but still feeling things out.
Could still be as simple as King/Jar/Leg (which would be a rought rand for Facists).

Wrong again. This makes a lot of sense. He's two policies away from loss, and he can't be assured if he passes a liberal policy here he'll be able to stop another from passing.

Second, Zack getting another policy in play changes things substantially. Now, all he needs is the right nomination and the game ends. It's a perfectly rational choice. The only real loss here was you peeking him which leaves two of you guilty by association, but he couldn't really help being hampered by your decision, so I can't blame him on that count.

Jarema you might want to review the rules.

So, I'll ask you what I asked Visor, explain how it's a +EV move to out two facists in one fell swoop?


I think post-peek the thread died a horrible death. The game was near mechanically locked for Liberals. We only had to make it through the elections King/Jar/Legato before we can just swap the chancellorship back and forth between Apoc, Zack & one of Stork/Visor/Loehren and just hope the rand doesn't screw us.

Zack/Apoc is not the team in need of a desperate play here.